Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Moderator: Vympel
Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
When a ship is destroyed during times of peace (and in certain war-time conditions) a courts marshal is convened in order to determine how and why the ship was lost, whether due to incompetence or malice or even treason. Given that the UFP has many traditions similar to the USN, I would imagine that if a ship were lost, a courts marshal would be called in order to determine what happened. And in the case of Star Trek: Generations, a courts marshal would probably dismiss the entire senior staff of the Enterprise-D. So now, I will lay out the charges and why they're relevant. I will try to be impartial and only lay out the facts and the charges they would realistically be charged with should
Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Dereliction of Duty: During a red alert situation due to the threat of the Duras Sisters' bird of prey being cloaked, Captain Picard contacted the enemy and negotiated for the release of his chief engineer, Lieutenant Commander Geordi La Forge. The Duras Sisters are known terrorists within the Klingon Empire, and according to the negotiations, Picard allowed himself to be traded for a lower-ranking officer, leaving Commander William Riker in command.
Violation of the Temporal Prime Directive: When Picard beamed to the surface of Veridian III, he attempted to negotiate with the terrorist Dr. Tolian Soran, before engaging Dr. Soran while unarmed before failing to stop the launch of the trilithium missile. The star is destroyed, and the Nexus was allowed to pass through Veridian III, absorbing Dr. Soran and Captain Picard. When confronted with a temporal echo of a civilian aboard the Enterprise, Guinan, Picard chooses to obtain assistance from Captain James T. Kirk, trapped within the Nexus due to the events on the Enterprise-B in 2293. Together, the two travelled back to a point before Dr. Soran launched the missile.
Commander William T. Riker.
Gross Incompetence: During the attack by the Duras Bird of Prey, Commander Riker was informed that the shield frequency of the Enterprise was compromised, allowing attacks from the Bird of Prey's disruptors to bypass the shields and directly strike the hull. Standard tactics for combating the Borg is to rotate shield frequencies to prevent adaptation. At no point did Commander Riker order the shield frequency rotated. As the attack gets underway, the helmsman was injured and unable to remain at his post. Despite having other, more qualified personnel, Riker ordered Lieutenant Commander Deanna Troi to take the helm. Rather than launch all weapons, Riker orders Lieutenant Commander Worf to remotely trigger the cloaking device of the Duras Bird of Prey before firing on the now vulnerable craft. At no time did the Enterprise engage the Bird of Prey with its full weapons compliment.
Lieutenant Commander Deanna Troi
Cowardice in the Face of the Enemy: When ordered to take the helm of the Enterprise-D by Commander William Riker, Lt. Commander Troi brought the ship about without authorization to present the rear of the vessel to the Bird of Prey. By turning the ship about, Lt. Commander Troi prevented the majority of the Enterprise-D's weapons from being utilized. The resulting damage caused the Enterprise-D to be damaged beyond repair, with the engineering hull exploding and the saucer crashing on Veridian III.
Gross Incompetence: When Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge was returned to the Enterprise after being tortured by the Duras Sisters and Dr. Soran, Lt. Commander Troi, as ship's counselor, did not raise any objections or even attempt to speak with Lt. Commander La Forge to ensure that his torture at the hands of the terrorists would prevent his immediate return to duty. As the ship's counselor, it would have also been her duty to address Lt. Commander Data after his emotion chip was installed and brought online, leading him to become emotionally unfit for duty. And lastly, during the evacuation of the engineering hull, counselor Troi made no effort to attempt to comfort or assist the civilians or children who would benefit from her direct intervention. Instead, she chose to remain at the helm, a post she had never held previously and was not qualified to command.
Lieutenant Commander Worf, Son of Mogh
Gross Incompetence: During the attack on the Enterprise-D by the Duras Bird of Prey, the Enterprise-D had sufficient firepower to destroy the Bird of Prey, which was within the forward arc of the ship's primary weapons array. Rather than rotate the shield frequency or fire the entire ship's compliment of weapons. When the Bird of Prey was forced to engage its cloaking device, Lt. Commander Worf only fired a single photon torpedo to destroy the vessel, rather than a full spread to ensure the ship was destroyed.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Dereliction of Duty: During a red alert situation due to the threat of the Duras Sisters' bird of prey being cloaked, Captain Picard contacted the enemy and negotiated for the release of his chief engineer, Lieutenant Commander Geordi La Forge. The Duras Sisters are known terrorists within the Klingon Empire, and according to the negotiations, Picard allowed himself to be traded for a lower-ranking officer, leaving Commander William Riker in command.
Violation of the Temporal Prime Directive: When Picard beamed to the surface of Veridian III, he attempted to negotiate with the terrorist Dr. Tolian Soran, before engaging Dr. Soran while unarmed before failing to stop the launch of the trilithium missile. The star is destroyed, and the Nexus was allowed to pass through Veridian III, absorbing Dr. Soran and Captain Picard. When confronted with a temporal echo of a civilian aboard the Enterprise, Guinan, Picard chooses to obtain assistance from Captain James T. Kirk, trapped within the Nexus due to the events on the Enterprise-B in 2293. Together, the two travelled back to a point before Dr. Soran launched the missile.
Commander William T. Riker.
Gross Incompetence: During the attack by the Duras Bird of Prey, Commander Riker was informed that the shield frequency of the Enterprise was compromised, allowing attacks from the Bird of Prey's disruptors to bypass the shields and directly strike the hull. Standard tactics for combating the Borg is to rotate shield frequencies to prevent adaptation. At no point did Commander Riker order the shield frequency rotated. As the attack gets underway, the helmsman was injured and unable to remain at his post. Despite having other, more qualified personnel, Riker ordered Lieutenant Commander Deanna Troi to take the helm. Rather than launch all weapons, Riker orders Lieutenant Commander Worf to remotely trigger the cloaking device of the Duras Bird of Prey before firing on the now vulnerable craft. At no time did the Enterprise engage the Bird of Prey with its full weapons compliment.
Lieutenant Commander Deanna Troi
Cowardice in the Face of the Enemy: When ordered to take the helm of the Enterprise-D by Commander William Riker, Lt. Commander Troi brought the ship about without authorization to present the rear of the vessel to the Bird of Prey. By turning the ship about, Lt. Commander Troi prevented the majority of the Enterprise-D's weapons from being utilized. The resulting damage caused the Enterprise-D to be damaged beyond repair, with the engineering hull exploding and the saucer crashing on Veridian III.
Gross Incompetence: When Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge was returned to the Enterprise after being tortured by the Duras Sisters and Dr. Soran, Lt. Commander Troi, as ship's counselor, did not raise any objections or even attempt to speak with Lt. Commander La Forge to ensure that his torture at the hands of the terrorists would prevent his immediate return to duty. As the ship's counselor, it would have also been her duty to address Lt. Commander Data after his emotion chip was installed and brought online, leading him to become emotionally unfit for duty. And lastly, during the evacuation of the engineering hull, counselor Troi made no effort to attempt to comfort or assist the civilians or children who would benefit from her direct intervention. Instead, she chose to remain at the helm, a post she had never held previously and was not qualified to command.
Lieutenant Commander Worf, Son of Mogh
Gross Incompetence: During the attack on the Enterprise-D by the Duras Bird of Prey, the Enterprise-D had sufficient firepower to destroy the Bird of Prey, which was within the forward arc of the ship's primary weapons array. Rather than rotate the shield frequency or fire the entire ship's compliment of weapons. When the Bird of Prey was forced to engage its cloaking device, Lt. Commander Worf only fired a single photon torpedo to destroy the vessel, rather than a full spread to ensure the ship was destroyed.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
A marshal is a law enforcement official or a military rank.
The word you are desperately trying to miss here is ' court-martial', with the plural being 'courts-martial'.
The word you are desperately trying to miss here is ' court-martial', with the plural being 'courts-martial'.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
I wouldn't just assume that Troi isn't qualified to fly the ship either. There was an episode way back when dedicated to her earning her bridge officer merit badge so she could be left alone on the bridge every now and again. The episode focused more on her deficiencies as a commander, but she had to learn a buttloag aobut engineering for her test, so it's not unreasonable basic ship handling would be there to.
I could see being upset with Worf for not immediatly returning fire when the shields were compromised, but why are you carping about his not using 5 torpedoes to do the work of 1?
Also, you've managed to remind me of the Shatnerverse books, where a Romulan officer sneers that a Romulan would face a court-martial for losing his ship, picard probably got a shiny new ship, a pat on the back and a sincere apology for giving him a defective one before.
I could see being upset with Worf for not immediatly returning fire when the shields were compromised, but why are you carping about his not using 5 torpedoes to do the work of 1?
Also, you've managed to remind me of the Shatnerverse books, where a Romulan officer sneers that a Romulan would face a court-martial for losing his ship, picard probably got a shiny new ship, a pat on the back and a sincere apology for giving him a defective one before.
Could have been worse. He could have said court-marital.Jawawithagun wrote:A marshal is a law enforcement official or a military rank.
The word you are desperately trying to miss here is ' court-martial', with the plural being 'courts-martial'.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
I would question Troi's charge of cowardice etc. She turned the ship about, but she was given order by Riker:
"Deanna, take the helm! Get us out of orbit!"
Emphasis mine. So you can strike the "without authorisation" charge.
"Deanna, take the helm! Get us out of orbit!"
Emphasis mine. So you can strike the "without authorisation" charge.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Especially as we've seen time and again that every single shot has to be ordered one by one.Ahriman238 wrote:I could see being upset with Worf for not immediatly returning fire when the shields were compromised, but why are you carping about his not using 5 torpedoes to do the work of 1?
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Picard got prosecuted for the loss of the Stargazer. So its sounds like loss of a ship = court martial is still a standard thing in Starfleet.Also, you've managed to remind me of the Shatnerverse books, where a Romulan officer sneers that a Romulan would face a court-martial for losing his ship, picard probably got a shiny new ship, a pat on the back and a sincere apology for giving him a defective one before.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Uh, we've seen spreads of five split from one ball before... linkJawawithagun wrote:Especially as we've seen time and again that every single shot has to be ordered one by one.Ahriman238 wrote:I could see being upset with Worf for not immediatly returning fire when the shields were compromised, but why are you carping about his not using 5 torpedoes to do the work of 1?
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
You can still charge her for gross incompetence in executing the manoeuver. She chose to turn the Enterprise about instead of breaking orbit by going forward and slingshoting out into a free trajectory —which would also have minimised the time the enemy ship had to acquire and fire upon its target while presenting the Enterprise the opportunity to strafe on the way out. Instead, her action had their ship wallowing like a garbage scow and kept her in the target sights of the enemy for a long period of time, then turned most of the ship's heavy weapons away from target, denying themselves full offensive striking power and leaving the Enterprise to be repeatedly struck and damaged. Her action put the ship in a position of unnecessary vulnerability and risked its destruction.Eternal_Freedom wrote:I would question Troi's charge of cowardice etc. She turned the ship about, but she was given order by Riker:
"Deanna, take the helm! Get us out of orbit!"
Emphasis mine. So you can strike the "without authorisation" charge.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
And the charge would most likely be dropped upon conclusion that she was not sufficiently trained for that post in a combat situation.Patrick Degan wrote:You can still charge her for gross incompetence in executing the manoeuver. She chose to turn the Enterprise about instead of breaking orbit by going forward and slingshoting out into a free trajectory —which would also have minimised the time the enemy ship had to acquire and fire upon its target while presenting the Enterprise the opportunity to strafe on the way out. Instead, her action had their ship wallowing like a garbage scow and kept her in the target sights of the enemy for a long period of time, then turned most of the ship's heavy weapons away from target, denying themselves full offensive striking power and leaving the Enterprise to be repeatedly struck and damaged. Her action put the ship in a position of unnecessary vulnerability and risked its destruction.Eternal_Freedom wrote:I would question Troi's charge of cowardice etc. She turned the ship about, but she was given order by Riker:
"Deanna, take the helm! Get us out of orbit!"
Emphasis mine. So you can strike the "without authorisation" charge.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
I did say you drop the "manuvered without authorisation" charge, especially when you consider he unqualified nature, as jawa points out.
On a side note, I'm thinking about the orbital mechanics a bit. What if the E-D was flying "forwards" (facing the direction of it's orbit) then turned about to face the BoP when it snuck up "behind" them? Turning about (forwards again) and accelerating would be the best way to break orbit, whereas accelerating towards the BoP would slow them down relative to the planet and lower their orbit, making things worse.
So in terms of piloting, she may have made the best choice. Of course, that's pure conjecture, but it woudl rationalise it a bit.
After all, Riker would not have ordered her to the helm if he didn't think she could pilot the ship at least competently.
On a side note, I'm thinking about the orbital mechanics a bit. What if the E-D was flying "forwards" (facing the direction of it's orbit) then turned about to face the BoP when it snuck up "behind" them? Turning about (forwards again) and accelerating would be the best way to break orbit, whereas accelerating towards the BoP would slow them down relative to the planet and lower their orbit, making things worse.
So in terms of piloting, she may have made the best choice. Of course, that's pure conjecture, but it woudl rationalise it a bit.
After all, Riker would not have ordered her to the helm if he didn't think she could pilot the ship at least competently.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
You could charge Worf with gross incompetence and/or refusing to follow orders (whichever applies, I'm not exactly an expert on martial law) for that single torpedo launch as what Riker actually ordered was a full torpedo spread, but up to that he did exactly what he was told-i.e. nothing much. If anything them not using the full arsenal of the E-D was Riker's fault, as I can't recall him ever ordering 'continuous fire on all phasers' or anything to that effect when even with her back to the enemy a lot of the Big E's phaser banks (including, to an extent, the two big ones on the primary hull) absolutely can fire on targets aft of the ship as can the rear torpedo launcher (which, again, due to Riker never giving the order) didn't fire a single shot until the instakill torpedo that took the BoP out.
And while them not changing shield frequencies was a plot hole, it actually wouldn't have made much of a difference, as the Duras sisters would have known the new frequency thanks to the way they knew the original one being their tie-in with Geordi's visor and the shield frequency being up on a big honking display in engineering he was looking at. You'd expect the new shield frequency to show up on that too so that wouldn't have changed much of anything (not that that excuses Riker for not ordering it done given he didn't know that).
As for the 'gross incompetence' charges against Troi, she herself said that she wasn't really qualified for that and I don't think you can levy charges of gross incompetence unless the person in question is 'required' to be competent. She's the ship's shrink.
Besides, as I already stated, turning the ship's back towards the enemy isn't such a big deal for a Galaxy as a lot of her armament will happily keep bearing on said enemy-if anybody ever actually calls for it to be fired.
Again, if there's any gross incompetence, it's on Riker's part-a simple 'ahead Warp1 for 10 seconds, engage' would neatly have gotten them out of the BoP's weapons range, given the time to remodulate their shields, assess damage, and maybe find out how the hell the enemy knew their shield frequency. Instead he tells an self-admittedly inadequate helmswoman 'Get us out of orbit'. Yeah, That's clear instructions.
And while them not changing shield frequencies was a plot hole, it actually wouldn't have made much of a difference, as the Duras sisters would have known the new frequency thanks to the way they knew the original one being their tie-in with Geordi's visor and the shield frequency being up on a big honking display in engineering he was looking at. You'd expect the new shield frequency to show up on that too so that wouldn't have changed much of anything (not that that excuses Riker for not ordering it done given he didn't know that).
As for the 'gross incompetence' charges against Troi, she herself said that she wasn't really qualified for that and I don't think you can levy charges of gross incompetence unless the person in question is 'required' to be competent. She's the ship's shrink.
Besides, as I already stated, turning the ship's back towards the enemy isn't such a big deal for a Galaxy as a lot of her armament will happily keep bearing on said enemy-if anybody ever actually calls for it to be fired.
Again, if there's any gross incompetence, it's on Riker's part-a simple 'ahead Warp1 for 10 seconds, engage' would neatly have gotten them out of the BoP's weapons range, given the time to remodulate their shields, assess damage, and maybe find out how the hell the enemy knew their shield frequency. Instead he tells an self-admittedly inadequate helmswoman 'Get us out of orbit'. Yeah, That's clear instructions.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Riker ordered Worf to "Lock phasers and return fire." I would have expected Worf as a Klingon to interpret that as more than just "Fire one shot fromt he main array and leave it at that."
Heck, I would interpret "return fire" as "fire back as many times as they shoot at us."
I suppose you could handwave the lack of phaser fire as one of the shots damaging Fire Control, but that's really reaching.
I wonder...why didn't Riker order Data to take the helm? It's not like sensors were particularly vital; Worf could get a phaser lock easily enough. And Data of all people would be a capable helmsman. I wonder is his console can take over helm control? They seem identical to me.
Heck, I would interpret "return fire" as "fire back as many times as they shoot at us."
I suppose you could handwave the lack of phaser fire as one of the shots damaging Fire Control, but that's really reaching.
I wonder...why didn't Riker order Data to take the helm? It's not like sensors were particularly vital; Worf could get a phaser lock easily enough. And Data of all people would be a capable helmsman. I wonder is his console can take over helm control? They seem identical to me.
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Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Thank you, I didn't remember the exact wording of the order.Eternal_Freedom wrote:Riker ordered Worf to "Lock phasers and return fire." I would have expected Worf as a Klingon to interpret that as more than just "Fire one shot fromt he main array and leave it at that."
I'd interpret it as' keep shooting until they stop doing so' so Worf may be up on charges afterall.Heck, I would interpret "return fire" as "fire back as many times as they shoot at us."
That would have to have been the first shot (which miraculously destroyed just enough of fire control to keep everything but the saucer arrays out of the picture-which incidentally have a refire rate considerably above what we see in Generations), when all the hits that connected hit the engineering hull. Um-no? Reaching doesn't begin to cover it.I suppose you could handwave the lack of phaser fire as one of the shots damaging Fire Control, but that's really reaching.
For the same reason he didn't order Worf to go Phaser Death Blossom on the BoP, told Diana to Warp out of orbit so they could take a breather,I wonder...why didn't Riker order Data to take the helm? It's not like sensors were particularly vital; Worf could get a phaser lock easily enough. And Data of all people would be a capable helmsman. I wonder is his console can take over helm control? They seem identical to me.
or ordered shield frequencies to be rotated? Because without him being a complete moron the plot would have worked even less than it already did he was a moron?
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'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Thank you to everyone who pointed out I can't spell Court-Martial. I was in a hurry this morning when I posted.
In regards to Troi, there may not be enough evidence for gross incompetence, but I think I should've used the term Dereliction of Duty, given that she did NOT do her job in the three cases I presented. Now, one was after being ordered to take the helm, so that one can slide, but she did absolutely nothing in regards to assisting Data or Geordi when both were emotionally compromised. Data even asked the Captain to be relieved of duty, which I think the ship's counselor might be authorized to do even over a captain's objections due to the fact that it puts someone unable to perform their duty and removes them from that position where they can cause harm to themselves and/or others.
I wonder why no one has regarded the charges against Captain Picard. Everyone seems to be targeting Riker, and with obvious reason. I'm probably not justified in calling on Picard for violating the temporal prime directive because he was put into a position to violate it by the actions of Soran. However, he knew there was a Bird of Prey out there, cloaked, ready to target his ship. He traded himself for a lower-ranking officer to terrorists, who were expected to keep their word despite having a personal vendetta against not only Picard but Worf as well. If they'd chosen to, they could've killed him right then and there, prisoner be damned, because they hate Picard and the Federation for their failed coup.
In regards to Troi, there may not be enough evidence for gross incompetence, but I think I should've used the term Dereliction of Duty, given that she did NOT do her job in the three cases I presented. Now, one was after being ordered to take the helm, so that one can slide, but she did absolutely nothing in regards to assisting Data or Geordi when both were emotionally compromised. Data even asked the Captain to be relieved of duty, which I think the ship's counselor might be authorized to do even over a captain's objections due to the fact that it puts someone unable to perform their duty and removes them from that position where they can cause harm to themselves and/or others.
I wonder why no one has regarded the charges against Captain Picard. Everyone seems to be targeting Riker, and with obvious reason. I'm probably not justified in calling on Picard for violating the temporal prime directive because he was put into a position to violate it by the actions of Soran. However, he knew there was a Bird of Prey out there, cloaked, ready to target his ship. He traded himself for a lower-ranking officer to terrorists, who were expected to keep their word despite having a personal vendetta against not only Picard but Worf as well. If they'd chosen to, they could've killed him right then and there, prisoner be damned, because they hate Picard and the Federation for their failed coup.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
I cannot disagree with any of that. Idle speculation it was.Batman wrote:Thank you, I didn't remember the exact wording of the order.Eternal_Freedom wrote:Riker ordered Worf to "Lock phasers and return fire." I would have expected Worf as a Klingon to interpret that as more than just "Fire one shot fromt he main array and leave it at that."I'd interpret it as' keep shooting until they stop doing so' so Worf may be up on charges afterall.Heck, I would interpret "return fire" as "fire back as many times as they shoot at us."That would have to have been the first shot (which miraculously destroyed just enough of fire control to keep everything but the saucer arrays out of the picture-which incidentally have a refire rate considerably above what we see in Generations), when all the hits that connected hit the engineering hull. Um-no? Reaching doesn't begin to cover it.I suppose you could handwave the lack of phaser fire as one of the shots damaging Fire Control, but that's really reaching.For the same reason he didn't order Worf to go Phaser Death Blossom on the BoP, told Diana to Warp out of orbit so they could take a breather,I wonder...why didn't Riker order Data to take the helm? It's not like sensors were particularly vital; Worf could get a phaser lock easily enough. And Data of all people would be a capable helmsman. I wonder is his console can take over helm control? They seem identical to me.
or ordered shield frequencies to be rotated? Because without him being a complete moron the plot would have worked even less than it already did he was a moron?
It would seem we've drawn up charges agaisnt everybody apart from Geordi, Data and the good Doctor.
Geordi knew Soran took his visor, surely he should have reported this to the Doctor and have her check it thoroughly? Can we charge either of them in this regard?
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
If you go with this, you'd have to drop one of the charges against Riker. Because this only works if she was assumed to be competent at being a helmsman. If she is, Riker was not wrong per se in ordering her to take the helm. If she is not, you can't charge her for gross incompetence, because it would be like if a US Navy XO ordered the ship's chaplain to take the helm, gave a fairly nonspecific and vague order ("Get us out of here!") and then you charge the chaplain for doing so in a less than ideal manner. The chaplain is hardly expected to be well versed in ship handling tactics during combat, after all.Patrick Degan wrote:You can still charge her for gross incompetence in executing the manoeuver. She chose to turn the Enterprise about instead of breaking orbit by going forward and slingshoting out into a free trajectory —which would also have minimised the time the enemy ship had to acquire and fire upon its target while presenting the Enterprise the opportunity to strafe on the way out. Instead, her action had their ship wallowing like a garbage scow and kept her in the target sights of the enemy for a long period of time, then turned most of the ship's heavy weapons away from target, denying themselves full offensive striking power and leaving the Enterprise to be repeatedly struck and damaged. Her action put the ship in a position of unnecessary vulnerability and risked its destruction.
Which, if you're bringing a case against the various Enterprise officers regarding the loss of the ship, those two charges are rather mutually exclusive.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Generally, in a case like this every senior officer is brought up on charges. The reason for this is because as evidence gets presented and picked apart, one case (such as Riker's) might fall through, but there will then be sufficient evidence to say that Troi is guilty. They're still innocent until proven guilty, but at the same time by bringing the cases forward at the same time, you ensure that the evidence all comes out. This isn't like civilian court where everyone is listed on the same case, but instead everyone has a separate trial, one for each officer, even though an officer might have to get out of testifying against a different officer and then go to their own hearing. It sounds complicated but it's not too bad.RogueIce wrote:If you go with this, you'd have to drop one of the charges against Riker. Because this only works if she was assumed to be competent at being a helmsman. If she is, Riker was not wrong per se in ordering her to take the helm. If she is not, you can't charge her for gross incompetence, because it would be like if a US Navy XO ordered the ship's chaplain to take the helm, gave a fairly nonspecific and vague order ("Get us out of here!") and then you charge the chaplain for doing so in a less than ideal manner. The chaplain is hardly expected to be well versed in ship handling tactics during combat, after all.
Which, if you're bringing a case against the various Enterprise officers regarding the loss of the ship, those two charges are rather mutually exclusive.
Geordi might face charges for failing to mention the work they did on his visor, but then again that's partially Troi's fault and partially Worf's, since as chief of security, it would be his job to ask Geordi if he had heard or seen anything useful they could use against the Duras sisters or Troi's fault for not asking him about what happened and if he felt ok. It might also fall on Worf for not detecting a transmission leak from an unknown source, though that's debatable. Also remember, Geordi was tortured, and he was probably happy just to be home.Eternal_Freedom wrote:I cannot disagree with any of that. Idle speculation it was.
It would seem we've drawn up charges agaisnt everybody apart from Geordi, Data and the good Doctor.
Geordi knew Soran took his visor, surely he should have reported this to the Doctor and have her check it thoroughly? Can we charge either of them in this regard?
For Crusher, I'm not sure if you can really blame her. Geordi was given a basic physical I assume and told he'd suffered little to no physical damage as a result of the torture. I don't know how well the camera mounted in his visor was hidden, but it was done well enough to avoid a general health check. I'm sure that, given a more thorough exam focusing on the visor, they would've found it, but I don't think Crusher did anything necessarily wrong or out of line.
And Data... well, there's a case that might be made for being a coward and being shot at, but he also just had his emotion chip installed. The sudden flood of emotions was unexpected and therefor the case could be made it was a simple malfunction, given his long career of facing the enemy. Also, when he mentioned being relieved of command, Picard told him to stop being a pussy and deal with it. He wanted to be taken off active duty until he could sort out his emotions or find a way to safely remove the chip. The fact that Picard ordered him to remain at his post means that Data was just following orders.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Dumb question here, who cleared Geordi to return to duty?
After Soran and Duras' "hospitality" he should've been given at the very least a few days rest plus psychological consoling.
It's not like Geordi has ever been kidnapped by hostile forces in the past and brainwashed to do their bidding.
Either Crusher or Troi (most likely Troi) dropped the ball there.
After Soran and Duras' "hospitality" he should've been given at the very least a few days rest plus psychological consoling.
It's not like Geordi has ever been kidnapped by hostile forces in the past and brainwashed to do their bidding.
Either Crusher or Troi (most likely Troi) dropped the ball there.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Pretty sure that was Crusher.
The consoles are supposed to be reconfigurable on the fly, because they're supposed to basically all be touchscreen displays. Theoretically if you've got the clearance/authority to do so, you could make any computer panel on the ship a helm control - even a PADD. So, yeah, Data *could* have taken over helm control from where he was sitting, and probably continue to do other things as well.
That said, my guess would be that the writers put Troi at the helm to give her something to do.
Data does more than just sensors. Ops is/was envisioned as sort of a "ship's resources manager" and my bet is he's probably coordinating damage control.Eternal_Freedom wrote:I wonder...why didn't Riker order Data to take the helm? It's not like sensors were particularly vital; Worf could get a phaser lock easily enough. And Data of all people would be a capable helmsman. I wonder is his console can take over helm control? They seem identical to me.
The consoles are supposed to be reconfigurable on the fly, because they're supposed to basically all be touchscreen displays. Theoretically if you've got the clearance/authority to do so, you could make any computer panel on the ship a helm control - even a PADD. So, yeah, Data *could* have taken over helm control from where he was sitting, and probably continue to do other things as well.
That said, my guess would be that the writers put Troi at the helm to give her something to do.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
The navy actual holds a board on inquiry not a Court-Martial to determin if there is reason for a trial. The court martial is the actual trial
Events or actions calling for an inquiry
that said the board finds evidence warranting a trial
Events or actions calling for an inquiry
linkA Naval Board of Inquiry may be convened for numerous reasons, such as when a Naval ship:
■performs poorly in a battle situation
■is found to be unprepared in a battle station
■is sunk
■is lost in a storm
■runs aground
■collides with a ship of a neutral nation
■collides with another Naval ship
■is destroyed by fire or explosion while docked
■destroys dockage while docking
■has a mutinous crew
■fails to follow approved orders or procedures
that said the board finds evidence warranting a trial
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
1) For the Klingon ship to get a new shield frequency, Geordi would have to look at the shield display after the change. There would almost certainly be a delay.Batman wrote:And while them not changing shield frequencies was a plot hole, it actually wouldn't have made much of a difference, as the Duras sisters would have known the new frequency thanks to the way they knew the original one being their tie-in with Geordi's visor and the shield frequency being up on a big honking display in engineering he was looking at. You'd expect the new shield frequency to show up on that too so that wouldn't have changed much of anything (not that that excuses Riker for not ordering it done given he didn't know that).
2) If they implemented the established anti-Borg measure of constantly changing frequencies using a randomized program, any frequency they happened to glimpse through Geordi's visor would be changed again so quickly it would be useless to the Klingons.
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Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
I would interpret it as "Open fire with everything that can bear on the target until it's no longer a threat."Eternal_Freedom wrote:Heck, I would interpret "return fire" as "fire back as many times as they shoot at us."
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion... Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776
"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776
"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"
Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
Another case of "writer's sense of drama" overcoming sense. Picard basically abandoned his post in a potential combat situation. It's bad enough that Geordi knows sensitive information about the ship for which he was undoubtedly being interrogated, but now Picard wants to put himself in the same situation?Baffalo wrote:Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Dereliction of Duty: During a red alert situation due to the threat of the Duras Sisters' bird of prey being cloaked, Captain Picard contacted the enemy and negotiated for the release of his chief engineer, Lieutenant Commander Geordi La Forge. The Duras Sisters are known terrorists within the Klingon Empire, and according to the negotiations, Picard allowed himself to be traded for a lower-ranking officer, leaving Commander William Riker in command.
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion... Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776
"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776
"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"
Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
I'd say it was reckless to allow Geordi to return to duty without a full debriefing.Eternal_Freedom wrote:It would seem we've drawn up charges agaisnt everybody apart from Geordi, Data and the good Doctor.
Geordi knew Soran took his visor, surely he should have reported this to the Doctor and have her check it thoroughly? Can we charge either of them in this regard?
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion... Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776
"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"
-- The King of Swamp Castle, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
"Nothing of consequence happened today. " -- Diary of King George III, July 4, 1776
"This is not bad; this is a conspiracy to remove happiness from existence. It seeks to wrap its hedgehog hand around the still beating heart of the personification of good and squeeze until it is stilled."
-- Chuck Sonnenburg on Voyager's "Elogium"
Re: Courts Marshal of the Enterprise-D Command Staff
I admit it's been a while since I saw the movie, but if Geordi knew the visor had been in someone else's hands while he was captured, then Worf, as security chief, would be severely negligent in his duties to not confiscate it as soon as he returned. Given the technology available it could have been easily modified in any of a large number of ways - bugged as was done, or rigged with a micro-explosive to go off while he was in engineering, or modified in more subtle ways such as being set to present him with false information or something like that. Geordi should have immediately switched to a spare visor while that one was carefully disassembled and examined, and then thrown away. Not having a spare visor (or the ability to easily replicate one) would also be evidence of incompetence.