So what happened to cloning?

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

So I've been looking for some new news. Mainstream media is completely saturated with primary coverage, how shitty the economy is, withdrawing from Iraq, OWS, blah blah blah. Nothing that hasn't been constantly blaring for the past three months. So I decided to look up something that interested me a few years ago, human cloning, both therapeutic and reproductive. I've been scouring the web and have found nothing substantial dating any later than 2007. Personally I find it very disturbing that due to legislative red tape and, in my opinion, misguided public sentiment, that research isn't still being conducted on the scale that it can and I think, should be. Anyones thoughts on the matter?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Research is being done, in certain places. However, due to the legal, moral, and ethical issues the public has with it any place which DOES research into human cloning is keeping it quiet. A lot of it is going on in private research facilities, because nobody wants to do a press conference to announce 'Human Clone Embryo #C3469 failed to come to term today after a 20-week pregnancy'.

Its happening, quietly. I expect a cloned human will be born sometime before 2025.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

Research is being done, in certain places. However, due to the legal, moral, and ethical issues the public has with it any place which DOES research into human cloning is keeping it quiet. A lot of it is going on in private research facilities, because nobody wants to do a press conference to announce 'Human Clone Embryo #C3469 failed to come to term today after a 20-week pregnancy'.

Its happening, quietly. I expect a cloned human will be born sometime before 2025.

Do you know where I could find information regarding such research? I'm genuinely interested. Hell if it were an IPO, I'd jump at the chance .

[CaptainChewbacca]

Tissue cloning (with stem cells and other means) is being done everywhere. HUMAN cloning is something that 'isn't done' with a nod and a wink.

If it happens anywhere, I expect it will be India. Just my hunch.

[Skgoa]

Why India? They have to many people already.

[Broomstick]

The whole fucking world has too many people in it, but aside from that, Indian science, technology, and medicine are just as cutting edge and advanced as anywhere else in the world.

My biggest concern with artificial cloning* is the death rate - last I heard, there were still dozens, if not hundreds, of malformed embryos and dying infants for every mammal successfully cloned. I would hope technology has improved since the days of Dolly the Sheep.

Unless, of course, you're talking about deliberate embryo splitting, in which case human cloning has already occurred, but we still refer to such people as "twins" rather than clones. It's the cloning of a person already born, so the two genetically identical people are of notably different ages, that the OP is talking about, right?

* Nature produces clones on its own, we call them "identical twins" or, even more rarely, "identical triplets" or some other form of identical multiple.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

Yes. Noticeably different ages. I'm not really thinking about it in the sense that one would make more people, but more or less to advance the technology so we can get better at it and use it for the benefit of mankind.

That and I had an interesting conversation about the possibilities of a female clone of myself...

[Eternal_Freedom]

Surely if it's female and your male, by definition it's not a clone.

[evilsoup]

Aren't there some rare cases of women with XY-chromosomes? If you influenced the environment of the embryo in the right way, then maybe..?

But I can only think of one reason why someone would want to go to all that trouble, and that's a pretty disturbing path to go down...

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's narcissism taken to extremes.

[evilsoup]

'Narcissism' would be the least of the problems with such a plan.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Please, elaborate.

[Duckie]

Well, unless we're talking magical fictional cloning where people pop out inexplicably as old as their original, you'd have to wait (and by wait I mean 'creepily child groom') for over a dozen years.

[evilsoup]

Seriously, I have to elaborate on that?

The only reason I can think of for someone to want a female clone of himself is to have sex with her. So that would mean creating a child and raising her with the express intention of doing so. In my opinion, this puts you on the same low moral level as those assholes who ship their daughters off to Pakistan to marry some 40-year-old bastard; except without the mitigating factors of lack of education and cultural pressure. The whole thing stinks of child abuse and father-daughter incest.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ah, fair enough. I was thinking in terms of the magical cloning Duckie mentioned.

[Duckie]

That one's actually a terrible idea too.

Despite the obvious idea that seems to come unbidden to men, your your-age female clone of yourself wouldn't be a very good girl anyhow. Assuming it were some magic process that duplicates you into a female body that looks somewhat like you but a girl, your brain wouldn't identify as female so would be very uncomfortable and probably not in the mood due to constant body horror. Also she wouldn't act in a female social role really since that's not innate to the body.

On the other hand, even if you could fix that, properly controlling a female body and looking good in it- like, she wouldn't do the hip movements when walking (watch a guy crossdressing or go try it yourself, they're no good at it unless they've practiced a lot. How we learn to do it as kids I don't know, but I figure it must be imitated or something.) or know what postures look good and what ones don't. Those are all skills it'd be bizarre to have just randomly appear. And then she'd basically be a virgin and'd have no idea what things she likes or how to get her off. A male duplicate of a girl would have similar problems- she'd probably have premature ejaculation like awkward 15 year old boys since it'd be her literal first time. And her voice would sound like yours- the pitch and tone and word differences and whatnot are mostly social and not physical, although there would be some differences due to larynx length or something.

I guess it could work out if you're androgynous and already have tried being a girl in mind, body, and voice enough to get good at it and whatnot, but seriously just go all the way and be the girl version of yourself in real life. Then you can have sex with that person as much as you want, albeit from a different angle.

It could also work if 'magical female duplicate' means "Someone who looks like she could be my sister but has completely different memories and socialisation to account for the fact that she's a different gender so that she doesn't act like some gross dude in a chick's body", but then you're just doing a magically conjured fraternal twin who shares your genes and some ephemeral concept of "same person", not a clone. Twincest is a legitimate fetish, but it's not really your clone in the sense people use it.

Man I feel far stupider just for thinking about this. Suffice to say it's a terrible idea.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Indeed. I'd never really thought of it beyond it being extreme narcissism.

Thanks for that explanation, it'll come in useful next time I'm having a drunken discussion in the pub.

[evilsoup]

Well he did say 'magical cloning', so I suppose the magic could handwave all that stuff away..

[Shroom Man 777]

Rye would be the ideal specimen for this great experiment.

[Duckie]

True. And magical identical cloning would work fine as you're already well-practised at being you (hopefully). My clone and I would happily work out just fine in a relationship. Well, for a brief fling. Then we'd get on eachother's nerves, I imagine, especially what with competing for the same things we want in life. And my poor girlfriend- two of me would probably drive her to murder at least one of us. That's another problem- what do you do with the doppelganger after it's done? Disintegrate it? Do they spawn completely fine with their inevitable post-coital destruction for your convenience? It seems far easier just to look for a girl who looks like she's your sister into the same things as you and then play pretend with her if you want this. Even though it's rare, it's more common than magical cloning in real life, as a bonus.

[Purple]

(assuming magical cloning)

Well you could just clone her brain dead. As in, a lobotomized mindless automaton body that has the functioning level of a coma patient. That solves all of the awkwardness problems, lack of skill etc. And to quote a great man, the lady don't complain much. As long as you don't mind her not participating much either.
Spoiler

The above post has been produced with a creative license. Its purpose is to shock, confuse, disgust and horrify the reader as well as direct this already messed up conversation in a direction more fitting of where it is going anyway (Testing/HOS territory with creepy undertones if you ask me). It does so by presenting what seems to be a logically derived solution for the problem and addressing its practicalities while ignoring the obvious moral implications of it as if they newer existed.

Quality aside, and I am certain that some if not most of you will find the post tasteless. The post should be regarded as a work of art. It does not and newer will reflect the factual beliefs of the author. So don't take it too seriously.

[evilsoup]

I'd say the best thing to do would be to stop being a creep...

With 'magical cloning' you're creating a new person with all your memories and personality. If we assume the magic can get rid of the 'man in a woman's body' problem, then I don't really have an objection to having sex with this magical clone, assuming the clone would consent, but if you've 'cloned' yourself with the express purpose of having sex then I would think that wouldn't be too much of a problem.

Of course, by doing this you have created a whole new person, so killing the clone would be murder. I have no clue how property rights would be worked out in light of this bizarre future-tech.

EDIT: well Purple ninja'd me... but I think the first part of my post still stands.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I woudl like to say for the record that I did not express any interest in the cloning-sex idea, I was merely curious as to what further problems/objections existed, as I had not considered the idea before.

[evilsoup]

I understand that, I was saying 'stop being a creep' to the hypothetical guy who would actually go for this idea.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Good, I wanted to be sure.