Defining Imperialism

[His Divine Shadow]

Looking at the locked HOS thread about Enlightenment and Marina, I looked at imperialism, whats wrong with being Imperialistic?

Lenin defined Imperialism as the "Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism", ofcourse Lenin was full of shit and is dead anyway so fuck him and his definition, later we can tip over his sarcofocaus.

Imperialism is when one nation exerts political, economic, social or military control or influence over another nation or people.

Essentially, it's a nation that expands itself in the world, whats wrong with expanding ones society? It does not have to be done millitarily, and expanding ones society creates standards that makes life easier, I'd say ancient Roman imperialism homogenized europe, and thank the lord for that, if we where more different we'd all be dead now.

So, is it right to use imperialism in a negative manner? That seems kind of faulty to me.

[Coyote]

Generally, though, Imperialism is imposing one set of moral values and social codes on another country that probably does not want it. It is usually characterized by a forceful takeover, and these things are a bad idea.

I find darkly amusing (and can well up zero pity for) countries that eagerly yuk up things from another culture; ie, US movies, jeans, cigarettes, fast food, cars, fashions, music, computers, video games, luxury items-- and thin bawl and whine (and moo and squeal) about the provider country's "Imperialism".

Voluntary purchase and demand on their part does not constitute Imperialism on our part.

[Admiral Johnason]

So, by what you are saying, Iraq is going to have malls when we're through with them?

[NecronLord]

Lenin defined Imperialism as the "Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism", ofcourse Lenin was full of shit

Damm Straight.

Imperialism is when one nation exerts political, economic, social or military control or influence over another nation or people.

Essentially, it's a nation that expands itself in the world, whats wrong with expanding ones society? It does not have to be done millitarily, and expanding ones society creates standards that makes life easier, I'd say ancient Roman imperialism homogenized europe, and thank the lord for that, if we where more different we'd all be dead now.

So, is it right to use imperialism in a negative manner? That seems kind of faulty to me.

REG: Yeah. All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?!
XERXES: The aquaduct?
REG: What?
XERXES: The aquaduct
REG: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.
COMMANDO #3: And the sanitation.
LORETTA: Oh, yeah, the sanitation, Reg. Remember what the city used to be like?
REG: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done.
MATTHIAS: And the roads.
REG: Well, yeah. Obviously the roads. I mean, the roads go without saying, don't they? But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads--
COMMANDO: Irrigation.
XERXES: Medicine.
COMMANDOS: Huh? Heh? Huh...
COMMANDO #2: Education.
COMMANDOS: Ohh...
REG: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
COMMANDO #1: And the wine.
COMMANDOS: Oh, yes. Yeah...
FRANCIS: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, Reg, if the Romans left. Huh.
COMMANDO: Public baths.
LORETTA: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now, Reg.
FRANCIS: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this.
C1OMMANDOS: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
REG: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
XERXES: Brought peace.
REG: Oh. Peace? Shut up!

However what most people think of when they hear the phrase "Imperialism" is the 'colonial' powers of the 19th and 20th century. It is telling that when the romans left Britain the Brits sent letters begging them to return. When the Brits and French left their 'colonies', it was usually due to being kicked out.

[kojikun]

The Roman Empire fell because they didnt let Goths into Rome, but Goths wanted to be part of the great Roman Empire with all its sophistication so they forced their way in. Figure that, wars were fought to JOIN empires back then..

[Wicked Pilot]

I would simply define imperialism as forcing one's cultural ideas onto another culture that does not desire to acquire them.

[HemlockGrey]

The Roman Empire fell because they didnt let Goths into Rome, but Goths wanted to be part of the great Roman Empire with all its sophistication so they forced their way in. Figure that, wars were fought to JOIN empires back then..

Well, they certainly bungled that one...

[SyntaxVorlon]

Imperialism, the more modern definition, is based on Britain's Empire, or rather Victoria's. During her reign Victorian England invaded numerous undeveloped countries, destroyed numerous African nations which staunchly opposed being taken over, operated or allowed autonomy for the worst most racist governments under the commonwealth to crop up, South Africa, Australia, etc. It imposed its mighty will upon all of these small countries to vastly increase the wealth of a minority in Britain.

The fact is the US is imposing it's will on other countries and to their detriment in most countries. The fact is that it imposes a middle level of it's will and this comes out to be worse than total or near nothing control. Why? Because it will support the government of the first person willing to comply. Noriega, Pinochet(hard t at the end not an A, he's chilean not french), Saddam Hussein, etc. And it has tried to mastermind coups in countries where the politicians were in favor of limiting trade with the US or curtailing the abilities of it's corporations, Venezuela. It has funded paramilitary and geurrila organizations to press it's agenda, Columbia, Al Queda, Nicaragua, the Taliban. Only to back away and let the situation degrade to the point where these paramilitary and geurrilla orgs have become vehemontly destructive and/or attacked the US, Al Queda, Nicaragua, the Taliban.
And it has gone to war far too many times over oil and oil interests in the last 20 years.
Now what is the point of this rant, oh yeah imperialism. Well that little hall of shame of the US's greatest intelligence blunders and international sociopolitical gaffes goes to show what a horrible job the US is doing as an imperial power. It has squandered it or overused it and done what most other imperial powers have, which is absorb as much wealth as it can, trick itself to think that it's done the world a favor by homogenizing and extorting it, and finished of by doing such a halfassed job as a hegemonic controller that the people it's sent millions or even billions of dollars to bomb or kill it's opponents have turned their weapons back on us. Now because a security breach here and there the richest nation in the world is the most paranoid and the biggest target. But at least we get to buy from the Gap.

[NecronLord]

The Roman Empire fell because they didnt let Goths into Rome, but Goths wanted to be part of the great Roman Empire with all its sophistication so they forced their way in. Figure that, wars were fought to JOIN empires back then..

Well, they certainly bungled that one...

The first appearance in europe of 'the plague' and the first known eruption of Krakatoa around the same time really didn't much help.

[SyntaxVorlon]

The bubonic plague? That came from Asia I thought. Started in Asia, mongols attacked and gave it to the Genoans in one of their middle eastern strongholds, by flinging diseased bodies into the city. They went back to Europe and it spread from there.

[NecronLord]

The bubonic plague? That came from Asia I thought. Started in Asia, mongols attacked and gave it to the Genoans in one of their middle eastern strongholds, by flinging diseased bodies into the city. They went back to Europe and it spread from there.

Nope that was the 'black death' the bubonic plague has been around for millennia. This one wasn't as effective a strain.

[His Divine Shadow]

Nope that was the 'black death' the bubonic plague has been around for millennia. This one wasn't as effective a strain.

So, the two are same kinda viruses but different strains?

[NecronLord]

Nope that was the 'black death' the bubonic plague has been around for millennia. This one wasn't as effective a strain.

So, the two are same kinda viruses but different strains?

Probably. This one is known as "Justinians Plague" and was probably bubonic, or a related strain.

One site on it

Another

More

Those are quick references, you can doubtless find better if you search a little.

[Peregrin Toker]

Imperialism is when one nation exerts political, economic, social or military control or influence over another nation or people.

If anything is wrong with that sort of imperialism is that it might violate the sovereignity of others.

[Slartibartfast]

Imperialism, the more modern definition, is based on Britain's Empire, or rather Victoria's. During her reign Victorian England invaded numerous undeveloped countries, destroyed numerous African nations which staunchly opposed being taken over, operated or allowed autonomy for the worst most racist governments under the commonwealth to crop up, South Africa, Australia, etc. It imposed its mighty will upon all of these small countries to vastly increase the wealth of a minority in Britain.

The fact is the US is imposing it's will on other countries and to their detriment in most countries. The fact is that it imposes a middle level of it's will and this comes out to be worse than total or near nothing control. Why? Because it will support the government of the first person willing to comply. Noriega, Pinochet(hard t at the end not an A, he's chilean not french), Saddam Hussein, etc. And it has tried to mastermind coups in countries where the politicians were in favor of limiting trade with the US or curtailing the abilities of it's corporations, Venezuela. It has funded paramilitary and geurrila organizations to press it's agenda, Columbia, Al Queda, Nicaragua, the Taliban. Only to back away and let the situation degrade to the point where these paramilitary and geurrilla orgs have become vehemontly destructive and/or attacked the US, Al Queda, Nicaragua, the Taliban.
And it has gone to war far too many times over oil and oil interests in the last 20 years.
Now what is the point of this rant, oh yeah imperialism. Well that little hall of shame of the US's greatest intelligence blunders and international sociopolitical gaffes goes to show what a horrible job the US is doing as an imperial power. It has squandered it or overused it and done what most other imperial powers have, which is absorb as much wealth as it can, trick itself to think that it's done the world a favor by homogenizing and extorting it, and finished of by doing such a halfassed job as a hegemonic controller that the people it's sent millions or even billions of dollars to bomb or kill it's opponents have turned their weapons back on us. Now because a security breach here and there the richest nation in the world is the most paranoid and the biggest target. But at least we get to buy from the Gap.

Well, first I must state that I think you're a moron when it comes to debating Sci-Fi. But here you're dead on target. Very good, have a cookie