Destructionator XIII wrote:It's always easier to think someone is mentally ill or some kind of monster. That way, it's one of them doing it, not one of us.
It is one of them doing it, not one of us, whoever "them" turns out to be.
So its not a matter of it being easier or harder at all, really.
Destructionator XIII wrote:It's always easier to think someone is mentally ill or some kind of monster. That way, it's one of them doing it, not one of us.
It is one of them doing it, not one of us, whoever "them" turns out to be.
So its not a matter of it being easier or harder at all, really.
You've missed the point entirely. People are quick to identify wrong-doers as being some kind of "other": in this case, XIII is referring to the mentally ill. By doing this, able-minded people are able to dissasociate themselves from this kind of behaviour, because who really wants to acknowledge that they are capable of that sort of thing?
So, if she turns out to be someone who is relatively similar to us, it does in fact become harder. I'm sort of struggling with how you haven't got this.
Zablorg wrote:You've missed the point entirely. People are quick to identify wrong-doers as being some kind of "other": in this case, XIII is referring to the mentally ill. By doing this, able-minded people are able to dissasociate themselves from this kind of behaviour, because who really wants to acknowledge that they are capable of that sort of thing?
So, if she turns out to be someone who is relatively similar to us, it does in fact become harder. I'm sort of struggling with how you haven't got this.
Oh I'm physically capable of such an act, but that'd require me to be something of a dick to actually carry it out, which immediately excludes me from whatever group this person is in.
Why does people understanding your behaviours and coping mechanisms make you so defensive? Do you consider yourself unique or especially rational?
People are tribal, and they like to adhere positive things to themselves (ie that shit about computer nerds solving physics) and they like to distance themselves from bad things (ie all the denial ever). If you dismiss an issue because it's just that small group of strange 'other' people, you immediately don't need to confront any of the underlying issues involved because they don't affect you... right?
This is why people talk about 'real' christians, complain about 'consoletards', give silly names and caricatures to political opponents, dehumanise homosexuals, compartmentalise women, etc. They're all 'different' so it doesn't matter. None of that mud is on you; you have no responsibility and it is apart from you.
The OP really isn't any different from any of the other absurd shit Americans do on black friday, but it's important for many people to distance themselves from it regardless.
Even if we limit ourselves to the people who decided to go shopping on that one day of the year after Thanksgiving where our capitalist masters are ringing the Pavlovian bells especially hard, does this this sort of news really represent a legitimate reason to go "lol people suck and are assholes rite"? She was one shopper out of however many thousands were taking part, and of the other two incidents I'm aware of I see one robbery (which could have happened on any day) and one possible case of theft/police brutality.
In other words, as much as I dislike such excesses, I'm not convinced that the media attention given to incidents on Black Friday really represents an exceptional leap with regards to crime and overall human mendacity, rather than just providing an opportunity for terminal misanthropes to vent.
Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker - Mikhail Bakunin Capital is reckless of the health or length of life of the laborer, unless under compulsion from society - Karl Marx Pollution is nothing but the resources we are not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value - R. Buckminster Fuller The important thing is not to be human but to be humane - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
Nova Mundi, my laughable attempt at an original worldbuilding/gameplay project
Stark wrote:Why does people understanding your behaviours and coping mechanisms make you so defensive? Do you consider yourself unique or especially rational?
Unique, outside of the silly, fuzzy, snowflaky sense, no. Especially rational? Eh, I wouldn't say so. In general I wouldn't say I'm any more rational than many people. I'm just rational about different things.
Whatever underlying issues this person is the result of are very much my problem because I have to deal with people on a daily basis. This doesn't mean that whatever crippling cognitive flaw led them to believe that pepper spraying shoppers to beat them to a desired item is a plank in my eye.
Ryan Thunder wrote:
Whatever underlying issues this person is the result of are very much my problem because I have to deal with people on a daily basis. This doesn't mean that whatever crippling cognitive flaw led them to believe that pepper spraying shoppers to beat them to a desired item is a plank in my eye.
You're still doing it.
The point that people are laboriously trying to make is that the underlying issues are not necessarily unique to the woman who pepper sprayed a crowd over an xbox, but that you are projecting qualities on her that make her categorically "other" to yourself because it is easier to do that than to realise that you yourself may share in those underlying issues (and unless you're a hermit living on leaves and sunlight at the top of a mountain, you do, because the underlying issues are part and parcel of modern consumerist society).
Are people arguing that Ryan would pepper-spray people in the face over an X-Box? Because that seems impossible to prove- if Ryan thinks there's a difference between himself and someone who assaults people to save money on consumer goods, maybe he's right. Not everyone does that, after all.
Or are people arguing something else? Because if they are, then this sounds awfully overblown- does it make sense to go "how dare you disapprove of this person, you're other-izing them instead of seeing that their actions are an extreme form of everyday human behaviors!"
I think I'm within my rights to criticize someone for assaulting people in an attempt to save money, without being hypocritical or unfair. I understand that yes, they are motivated by the same desire for cool stuff that motivates me. But that doesn't mean I, or they, have the right to send people to the hospital over that motive.
It's not the difference between "sane me" and "crazy them." It's just a question of ethical versus unethical.
