Muslim UK students boycotting lectures on evolution

[The Grim Squeaker]

Muslim medical students boycotting lectures on evolution... because it 'clashes with the Koran'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1ezQdc3Ww
Muslim students, including trainee doctors on one of Britain's leading medical courses, are walking out of lectures on evolution claiming it conflicts with creationist ideas established in the Koran.
Professors at University College London have expressed concern over the increasing number of biology students boycotting lectures on Darwinist theory, which form an important part of the syllabus, citing their religion.
Similar to the beliefs expressed by fundamentalist Christians, Muslim opponents to Darwinism maintain that Allah created the world, mankind and all known species in a single act.
Steve Jones emeritus professor of human genetics at university college London has questioned why such students would want to study biology at all when it obviously conflicts with their beliefs.

He told the Sunday Times: 'I had one or two slightly frisky discussions years ago with kids who belonged to fundamentalist Christian churches, now it is Islamic overwhelmingly.

'They don't come [to lectures] or they complain about it or they send notes or emails saying they shouldn't have to learn this stuff.
'What they object to - and I don't really understand it, I am not religious - they object to the idea that there is a random process out there which is not directed by God.'
Earlier this year Usama Hasan, iman of the Masjid al-Tawhid mosque in Leyton, received death threats for suggesting that Darwinism and Islam might be compatible.
Sources within the group Muslims4UK partly blame the growing popularity of creationist beliefs within Islam on Turkish author Harun Yahya who, influenced by the success of Christian creationists in America, has written several books denouncing Darwinist theory.
Yahya associates Dawinism with Nazism and his books are and videos are available at many Islamic bookshops in the UK and regularly feature on Islamic television channels.
Speakers regularly tour Britain lecturing on Yahya's beliefs.

Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has expressed his concern at the walkouts
One such lecture was given at UCL in 2008 and this year's talks have been given in London, Manchester, Leeds, Dundee and Glasgow.
Evolutionary Biologist and former Oxford Professor Richard Dawkins has expressed his concern at the number of students, consisting almost entirely of Muslims, who do not attend or walk out of lectures.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1ezPVmVJ8

Source

Steve Jones emeritus professor of human genetics at university college London has questioned why such students would want to study biology at all when it obviously conflicts with their beliefs.

This. I don't get why anyone would go into biology while refusing to study evolution and anything else that clashes with their beliefs. I can understand going into medicine (it's essentially a technical profession rather than research, and evolution & scientific theory is far less [Relatively!!] fundamental), but biology?

[Lord Zentei]

What was that about the Koran having oh so many "scientific miracles" that were since "confirmed" by science? Seems that this is selective, eh?

On another note, how can they pass their courses if they refuse to participate in lectures on or acknowledge the worth of evolution? Or can they get by with a limited number of courses out of the package or something?

[Hillary]

I wonder how widespread this REALLY is. I suspect the numbers are not huge in reality - otherwise the Daily Mail would have taken great delight in publishing them.

As for why they would be taking biology classes, becoming a Doctor is a pretty common route for south Asians in the UK to take.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I wonder how widespread this REALLY is. I suspect the numbers are not huge in reality - otherwise the Daily Mail would have taken great delight in publishing them.

As for why they would be taking biology classes, becoming a Doctor is a pretty common route for south Asians in the UK to take.

Yes, but my comment was on those studying Biology. (A seperate degree from medicine or even medical science )

[SpaceMarine93]

On the bright side, I am pretty sure this sh*t it won't happen in Asia anyhow. At least, not every other Asian country except Indonesia are concerned.

[DoomSquid]

What was that about the Koran having oh so many "scientific miracles" that were since "confirmed" by science? Seems that this is selective, eh?

On another note, how can they pass their courses if they refuse to participate in lectures on or acknowledge the worth of evolution? Or can they get by with a limited number of courses out of the package or something?

The way UK university courses work, is that each year is divided into modules - it was eight in my university, I don't know if that's universal. Some of those modules are core modules you have to pass (so I had to pass my biochemistry modules, for example), and the others you don't have to so long as you get enough credits to pass the course. Some of those non-core modules are optional, some aren't. So, its possible that they have to do an evolutionary biology module, but that they don't have to pass it, although they'll be missing out on a bunch of relatively easy credits; if I were them, I'd just keep quiet and write down what the professors wanted me to, because compared to something like pharmcology, evolutionary biology is paradise on Earth.

As a note, some of the modules for my degree, at least, were shared with the medical degree as well. However, evolutionary biology was not one of them.

[Havok]

Why does biology conflict with their beliefs? Outside of the obvious that is.

[Hillary]

I wonder how widespread this REALLY is. I suspect the numbers are not huge in reality - otherwise the Daily Mail would have taken great delight in publishing them.

As for why they would be taking biology classes, becoming a Doctor is a pretty common route for south Asians in the UK to take.

Yes, but my comment was on those studying Biology. (A seperate degree from medicine or even medical science )

Ah, my comment was based on the assumption that this was simply a biology module of a medical qualification, rather than a biology degree.

[bobalot]

Other than the hilarity of overly religious people being asshats. Who gives a shit?

If they skip their class and boycott their lectures, they can fail. Problem solved.

[mr friendly guy]

Even in my year those Christian medical students knew that they had to answer the questions correctly to pass even if they didn't believe in evolution because of their magic man living in the sky. Fortunately for them most of it was taught only in the first year. Later years focussed on pathology and clinical stuff. There are some doctors who try and explain away things like bacteria antibiotic resistance as thats natural selection, not evolution. Those lectures in evolution we received frankly didn't cover the evidence in favour as well as say, a Richard Dawkins book, so that may explain why.

Other than the hilarity of overly religious people being asshats. Who gives a shit?

If they skip their class and boycott their lectures, they can fail. Problem solved.

If the UK does have government subsidised education then they just wasted money on students who aren't even trying to pass. However, this is the UK where there is supposedly an excess of doctors so this could be just an expensive way of weeding guys out.

[Ralin]

Why does biology conflict with their beliefs? Outside of the obvious that is.

I'm no expert, but the way I understand it, for some Muslims the idea that there are scientific laws at all conflicts with their beliefs. i.e., saying that objects fall because of gravity is blasphemous because that implies that there is a reason other than "Allah wills it" for them falling.

[Ryan Thunder]

I'm no expert, but the way I understand it, for some Muslims the idea that there are scientific laws at all conflicts with their beliefs. i.e., saying that objects fall because of gravity is blasphemous because that implies that there is a reason other than "Allah wills it" for them falling.

Why are they studying biology, then? Are they signing up and paying for courses just so they can boycott them?

[Ralin]

Why are they studying biology, then? Are they signing up and paying for courses just so they can boycott them?

Who the fuck knows? I didn't say it made sense.

[Zaune]

I'll beloieve it when it's reported in a paper that doesn't have at least three blogs specialising in debunking its articles. If we still had a Senate I'd be petitioning it to have every post that treats a Daily Mail article -or the Express, Sun or Star for that matter- as a credible source flushed to Testing on principle.

[Guardsman Bass]

Why are they studying biology, then? Are they signing up and paying for courses just so they can boycott them?

Who the fuck knows? I didn't say it made sense.

Some of them were medical students, and evolution is quite rightly part of the education process for that. I'll second the call for some actual numbers, just to see how common this sort of thing actually is (especially since the Daily Fail is the source on it).

[Havok]

Why does biology conflict with their beliefs? Outside of the obvious that is.

I'm no expert, but the way I understand it, for some Muslims the idea that there are scientific laws at all conflicts with their beliefs. i.e., saying that objects fall because of gravity is blasphemous because that implies that there is a reason other than "Allah wills it" for them falling.

Fair enough, but can't they just justify that as gravity as being "Allah's will"?

[Ralin]

Fair enough, but can't they just justify that as gravity as being "Allah's will"?

Some of them do. Others don't.

I honestly can't understand -why- some of them have a problem justifying it that way, but apparently this is a debate that goes back hundreds of years. Or so my South Asian history professor told me when I was an undergraduate.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm no expert, but the way I understand it, for some Muslims the idea that there are scientific laws at all conflicts with their beliefs. i.e., saying that objects fall because of gravity is blasphemous because that implies that there is a reason other than "Allah wills it" for them falling.

Fair enough, but can't they just justify that as gravity as being "Allah's will"?

This one goes back about 900 years, yeah. In simplistic form, the argument comes down to the answer to a question like "why does a rock fall?"

I say "because the rock is attracted to the center of the earth by the force of gravity."

Muslim philosopher Ghazali says "no, blaspheming oaf, the rock falls because it pleases Allah that the rock should fall."

What's at stake is the difference between two different definitions of "why X happens." For me, a mundane explanation of X is perfectly acceptable; for Ghazali it is unacceptable because it sort of... blocks out the contemplation of supernatural processes. Investigating phenomena without keeping at the forefront of our minds that the Almighty is the true cause behind all things is bad for the soul, since it's contemplation of this fact that makes for a good life.

So the argument continues, with me saying "this is dumb" and Ghazali calling me a filthy heathen.


Now, at this point a Muslim who is trying to, say, actually design a building will probably shrug and say "okay, the rock falls either way, I deal with it by making the building strong enough not to fall down." That's not going to step on many theologians' toes, either.

But evolution steps on a lot of toes because it deals with the question of the origin of mankind, the literal accuracy of holy writ, and the claim of the religion to be a literally accurate guide to how to live your life. Throw that away and you get utter chaos, human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together, blah blah blah.

So even as more... mundane subjects don't trigger this sensitivity and hostility from religious true-believers, the theory of evolution always does so. About the only thing that's got the same level of potential for doing that is cosmology, and we don't normally teach much cosmology to people in the course of their routine education.

[Lord Zentei]

I've seen some highly creative interpretations of the Koran that supposedly allows Muslims to accept the Big Bang - some verse or other (I forget which one) where it says that Allah rolls out the world as a carpet or something to that effect. And that naturally gets interpreted as meaning that the universe is spreading.