Australian state legalises gay civil unions, the Right whine

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Australian state legalises gay civil unions, the Right whine

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linky

Queensland Parliament passes same-sex civil unions bill Save this story to read laterby: By Andrew MacDonald and AAP
From: The Courier-Mail
December 01, 2011 12:29AM
Parliament passes same-sex civil unions bill
Grants couples right to legally recognised unions
Opposition slams it as " nothing more than a stunt''



QUEENSLAND MPs have voted in favour of legalising same-sex civil unions during an historic night in Parliament.
After almost four hours of debate Andrew Fraser's private member's bill was passed by a vote of 47 to 40, the Courier-Mail reported.

The bill, introduced by Deputy Premier Andrew Fraser, enables same-sex couples to register their union with the Queensland Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages.

The bill will grant same-sex couples the right to enter in to legally recognised civil unions. It prompted a strong reaction from gay rights, religious and family groups.

Labor MPs were allowed a conscience vote, but the Liberal National Party indicated it would vote en bloc against the bill.



Speaking in Parliament, Mr Fraser said it was 21 years to the day that Labor decriminalised homosexual activities in Queensland. And now he said, Labor could make history again to progress the rights of homosexuals.

"This bill merely but not meekly seeks to formally recognise relationships which have existed in Queensland for centuries,'' he told Parliament.

"It provides them with the opportunity to celebrate their commitment and their love for one another in a ceremony in front of friends and family, perhaps this is its most important feature.''

Opposition legal affairs spokesman Jarrod Bleijie said Mr Fraser only introduced the bill to shore up the left vote and was rushing it through parliament before the election, due early next year.

He said the bill was only introduced on October 25 and there has not been enough time for community consultation.

"He (Mr Fraser) did it to stich up a Green preference deal,'' Mr Bleijie told Parliament. "This bill is nothing more than a stunt.''

Mr Bleijie said more than 54 per cent of the final number of submissions to a legislative committee that examined the bill were received 17 days after the cut-off date.

"That goes to the heart of the lack of consultation,'' he said.
"We do not believe the people of Queensland have had the appropriate opportunities to raise their concerns.''

He also said the bill was not a priority for Queenslanders, who are more concerned about cost of living pressures.

"Civil partnerships is not on a priority list in the minds of Queenslanders,'' he said.

"The passing of this bill will not save Queenslanders money, it will not ease cost of living pressures, it will not get our triple-A credit rating back.''
Premier Anna Bligh said the bill may not be a priority for all of Queensland but it was a priority for those that live with discrimination every single day of their lives.

"The fight against discrimination should be a priority of any government,'' she told Parliament.

"This bill is fundamentally about the human rights of Queensland's citizens, but it is much more than that, it is about the joyful business of love and that is why it has touched the hearts of so many Australians, why so many people believe that Australia should be dealing with this issue.''

She also attacked the LNP for not having a conscience vote.

"They are now in the grip of the rising influence of the religious right,'' she said.

Capalaba MP Michael Choi became the first Labor member to speak against the bill. If six Labor MPs oppose the bill it is not expected to pass.

Mr Choi said he had voted in Parliament to give homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals when it came to taxes and property law and would continue to do so.

But he said he was brought up in a conservative household and when it came to legislating on homosexual love, his conscience didn't agree.

"I struggled and I argued with myself over and over but in the end I could not support this bill,'' he told Parliament.

"My conscience does not allow me to go further, I wanted to but I could not. To those I have disappointed and hurt with my decision I am sorry.

"I must be true to my own conscience because I have to live with me.''

He said he also doesn't support the legislation because it would only be recognised in Queensland.

"The real challenge is with Federal Parliament, because that is where the challenge lies,'' he said.

Labor MP for Toowoomba North Kerry Shine had said this week he was undecided on whether he would support the bill, but told Parliament he would vote in favour of it.

Gladstone independent MP Liz Cunningham said she will vote against it.

Independent member for Nanango Dorothy Pratt said she would also vote against the bill.

Not only did she believe the legislation was being rushed through, she believed it could be seen to erode Christian values.

She said she had received hate mail over her opinion, and had been called ignorant, coming from the dark ages, and even old and ugly. But that would not deter her.

"I accept that the homosexual community see this as a human rights issue,'' she told reporters.

"But I also accept the fact that many people of religious belief believe that this is an issue about marriage, they believe it is a dilution of their belief that marriage is between a man and woman, and I also believe that they believe it endeavours to remove a basic tenet of their life.''

Health Minister Geoff Wilson said although he had publicly supported the bill, he had decided only in the past few days to oppose it.

He said that his working class and Christian background have been the pillars of his life and he felt uncomfortable that the bill created a new legally recognised relationship that was an alternative to marriage.

"I am not convinced that that is a good thing to do,'' he told Parliament.

"I believe in the biblical understanding of marriage. I have wrestled with the many issues involved in the bill and have tried to bring an open mind.

"This is a conscience vote and I feel bound to vote with my conscience,'' Mr Wilson said.

Member for Albert Margaret Keech was the third Labor MP to speak against the bill.

She said she was a Christian and that civil unions mirror marriage in all but name and undermine the institution.

"I believe that marriage is between a man and a women ... therefore after careful consideration my conscience prompts me to oppose this bill by voting against it,'' she told parliament.

"I do not support a radical change to the long-established definition of marriage.

"I am not convinced that any change to marriage is for the common good for our society.''

She also said the vast majority of constituents she spoke to didn't want her to vote in favour of the bill.

Earlier, a crowd of gay rights activists gathered outside Parliament in a last ditch bid to urge MPs to support the bill.

One of the activists, Alex Myman, said her message was simple.

"We want equal rights," she said. "We're human beings as well."

Premier Anna Bligh addressed the crowd and said she looked forward to a "majority of voices" supporting the bill in Parliament.

She dismissed claims from her political opponents that the main issue was one of "process".

"This is not about process, this is about human beings," she said. "It's about Queenslanders and it's about their human rights."

The crowd dispersed ahead of the start of debate.

With Independent Rob Messenger suspended from the house and the remaining six independent and minor party MPs expected to oppose the bill, the legislation requires as few six government MPs to abstain or vote "no" to be defeated.

Earlier today Mr Fraser urged the Opposition to vote with their consciences on the bill.
Passing a gay rights bill won't improve the economic situation of Queenslanders. Thats a new one. How long did they take coming up with that bullshit? Whats next? Queensland winning the rugby won't stop world terrorism, therefore its crap. :lol:

On another note, I can't believe Queensland of all places passed such a forward thinking bill. Is this the same state that spawned Pauline Hanson? :mrgreen:
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Re: Australian state legalises gay civil unions, the Right w

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Its also the place where harping on about 'working class background' is a secret way of saying you hate gays. Homosexuals are so middle class!

If the Labor party wasn't useless he'd be out of a job for being a goddamn moron. Did you know that its wrong to 'remove' a 'basic tenet' of someone's life, even if it oppresses others? Well, it's a good idea to talk about it publicly to look good in front of bigots, anyway!
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"But gay people don't need marriage! They Should just have civil unions and be happy with those!"

Oh, right.
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Alkaloid wrote:"But gay people don't need marriage! They Should just have civil unions and be happy with those!"

Oh, right.
I believe that in Australia, the states don't actually have the power to legislate gay marriage - only the Federal government has the power to do that. Don't blame the Queensland government for not doing something they don't have the power to do.

And yeah. Go Queensland. If the state with the lowest polled support of gay marriage can pull this off, the other states have no excuse for not going ahead with it.
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No no, I'm talking about the whining about gay civil unions being legal now, which anti gay marriage folks have touted as being what gay people should be able to get.
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Post by weemadando »

I was proud to see Tassie leading the charge a few months ago.

Where homosexuality was illegal until the late 90s and too many people I know were hospitalised and some of them permanently crippled by homophobic gang attacks.

If only Gillard had the balls to deny a conscience vote and actually do what the majority wants rather than pandering to bigoted hicks in marginal electorates and religious lobby groups.
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I'm almost impressed with Labor at the moment. It looks like some of the left have finally remembered how to play politics and that they have a spine, and are mobilising to make a decent run at getting the Labor platform changed at the National Conference. Penny Wong had an opinion piece in the Age a few weeks ago where she flat out stated she wanted to and felt she should be able to get married, and I've kept hearing about it since then. I'm actually cautiously optimistic at this point, which stuns me, I'd pretty much given up.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

What the hell is up with the American and Australian right with regards to gay rights? In Iceland it was the 1996 government - led by the center-right Independence party - which passed the "registered cohabitation" law for gays and lesbians (that's a civil union, basically). Then, when the subsequent center-left Social Democrats and Green party government passed the gay marriage law, there were no votes against; although there were some absentees, they were a small minority, and MPs aren't always present for every vote in any case.

But in America and Australia, it's a different story. Why is this made into such a big fucking issue by them? It's just bizarre.
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Alkaloid wrote:I'm almost impressed with Labor at the moment. It looks like some of the left have finally remembered how to play politics and that they have a spine, and are mobilising to make a decent run at getting the Labor platform changed at the National Conference. Penny Wong had an opinion piece in the Age a few weeks ago where she flat out stated she wanted to and felt she should be able to get married, and I've kept hearing about it since then. I'm actually cautiously optimistic at this point, which stuns me, I'd pretty much given up.
Penny Wong remains a dreadful hypocrite and moral coward on the level of Garrett after speaking out against gays marriage when it was politically convenient to do so.
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Penny Wong remains a dreadful hypocrite and moral coward on the level of Garrett after speaking out against gays marriage when it was politically convenient to do so.
I agree. But the fact that she is now willing to publicly say she supports it means she thinks it has a good chance of passing, and she has in the past seemed to be a pretty good weather vane for the party as a whole.
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Lord Zentei wrote:What the hell is up with the American and Australian right with regards to gay rights? In Iceland it was the 1996 government - led by the center-right Independence party - which passed the "registered cohabitation" law for gays and lesbians (that's a civil union, basically). Then, when the subsequent center-left Social Democrats and Green party government passed the gay marriage law, there were no votes against; although there were some absentees, they were a small minority, and MPs aren't always present for every vote in any case.

But in America and Australia, it's a different story. Why is this made into such a big fucking issue by them? It's just bizarre.
I am trying to reason this one out myself. My observation is that Europe is left of us, while America is right of us, into batshit insane territory. As to why they are left of us, I leave that to someone more knowledgeable.
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Australia is pretty conservative, which is generally balanced by the entitlement/mateship stuff that supports the welfare system. Issues like this don't have that counterweight to the conservative side, because most people don't care while being prepared to follow the leader.
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There's also not really much of a 'left' in either countries political parties. In Australia it can really be divided into 'business rights' vs 'workers rights' and in the US its more 'business rights' vs 'business rights.' Both parties in both systems then tend to trend toward the socially conservative because churches used to control a not insignificant portion of influence among voters, and in Australia at least, even though that influence has declined the still court the Christian right out of I dunno, habit I suppose.

I also suspect that having two world wars fought on your doorstep might force people to reconsider whether being aggressively militarist is the best idea, and that it a philosophy that is pretty firmly attached to the right.
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I think you mean 'being amazingly racist and next to Asia'. I'm not sure that's related to this issue (beyond Howards hilarious plan to breed more bogans).
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Alkaloid wrote:There's also not really much of a 'left' in either countries political parties. In Australia it can really be divided into 'business rights' vs 'workers rights' and in the US its more 'business rights' vs 'business rights.' Both parties in both systems then tend to trend toward the socially conservative because churches used to control a not insignificant portion of influence among voters, and in Australia at least, even though that influence has declined the still court the Christian right out of I dunno, habit I suppose.

I also suspect that having two world wars fought on your doorstep might force people to reconsider whether being aggressively militarist is the best idea, and that it a philosophy that is pretty firmly attached to the right.
Except for the USSR, Red China, North Korea...

And what does militarism have to do with gay rights anyways?
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Post by Lord Zentei »

I think might just be one of those "madness of crowds" things that gets a life of its own. The leaders plug an idea for people to rally around in opposition to the Other Parties, then the new leaders adopt an idea because their base talks about it, and these things sort of keep going like a cat chasing its own tail. As long as it's not something that impacts the average voter, and is an emotional "values" issue that gets people riled up for no logical reason, it works for bullshit in politics. As for why America and Australia, perhaps they have more of a football-rally atmosphere to their politics than Europe does.
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Except for the USSR, Red China, North Korea...
Fair point.

I think its more, ok, militarism is a symptom of a more extreme political or religious ideology, and it tends to be self reinforcing (these people are different from us, so we have to be able to beat them in a war -> we can beat these people in a war so we are better than them -> we are better than these people so they are different from us) right? So because of the way Aus and the US were colonised, with the most powerful colonists coming mostly from western Europe and the UK, we inherited their political and religious positions, in this case right wing and Christian, which meant discrimination against certain types of people, mainly anyone not a white straight male.

I'm not putting this really well, but what I'm trying to say is that the gay rights issue is just one symptom of the political structure inherited from Europe, that had a tendency to be reinforced by militarism and colonialism, and that the two world wars in Europe caused a drop in militarism that weakened that self reinforcing cycle. It wasn't the only factor, but I suspect it was one.
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That's why we have so many football riots, right?

Stop trying to make a trend out of three data points. If you want to pretend to be clever, both AU and the US have or have had a siege mentality, which breeds social conformism. The country seems much more socially conservative than New Zealand, which is probably the result of a century of Asian fear.
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New Zealand seems to have had better relationships with non whites than Australia for ages though, just look at the difference between the Maori and Aboriginal populations in their respective countries right back to the 1900 or so, things were far from perfect but they were a hell of a lot better in New Zealand than Australia. Like I said, its not the only factor by a long way, but I suspect it is one.
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Post by General Mung Beans »

Alkaloid wrote:
Except for the USSR, Red China, North Korea...
Fair point.

I think its more, ok, militarism is a symptom of a more extreme political or religious ideology, and it tends to be self reinforcing (these people are different from us, so we have to be able to beat them in a war -> we can beat these people in a war so we are better than them -> we are better than these people so they are different from us) right? So because of the way Aus and the US were colonised, with the most powerful colonists coming mostly from western Europe and the UK, we inherited their political and religious positions, in this case right wing and Christian, which meant discrimination against certain types of people, mainly anyone not a white straight male.

I'm not putting this really well, but what I'm trying to say is that the gay rights issue is just one symptom of the political structure inherited from Europe, that had a tendency to be reinforced by militarism and colonialism, and that the two world wars in Europe caused a drop in militarism that weakened that self reinforcing cycle. It wasn't the only factor, but I suspect it was one.
Good point, don't forget too that the two world wars probably put a good dent in religious faith too.
El Moose Monstero: That would be the winning song at Eurovision. I still say the Moldovans were more fun. And that one about the Apricot Tree.
That said...it is growing on me.
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General Zod: It's the musical version of Stockholm syndrome.
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