Making a Regiment - 40K Imperial Guard Questions

[Zinegata]

Righto, I'm trying to come up with a mechanized regiment to feature in some fanfics, and I'd like to get some details regarding the founding/organization of a regiment.

Also, let me preface by saying that I know very well that the Imperium is vast and can justify all sorts of exceptions so I can "do whatever the hell I want", but I'd appreciate it if people can also cite precedents for the stuff that I'm making.

Anyway, for the list...

1) What's a good size for a mechanized regiment? I think there was a Cadian regiment that was featured before which numbered around 3,000 men and 300 items of armor (mainly Chimeras), but I do know the numbers can vary a bit widely. The new IG Codex for instance cites regiments that number 120,000 men - albeit it's formed almost entirely of conscripts and light infantry.

Essentially, I was thinking that the regiment was formed in a world that is relatively industrialized, but is very short on labor due to its remote location and lack of colonists. Thus, to meet the IG tithe the world raised a mech regiment, which would be equivalent of more manpower-heavy regiments raised by other worlds in the same sector.

2) Are Chimeras & other heavy equipment typically produced by the world the regiment comes from? The sources I've read are a bit conflicting as there's an implication that mechanized regiments are rare because it's expensive for governors to build one up... but also because it's the Forge worlds that produce the bulk of the IG's weapons. On the other hand, you've got Hive Worlds like Armageddon who produce entire regiments of Chimeras and have them start fighting immediately once they reach the end of the assembly line.

However, what I haven't seen is an example of a world that fields a mechanized regiment without being a Hive World (Armageddon) or being supplied by a Forge World (i.e. Cadia). Are there examples in the canon of a lightly industrialized world that can produce light vehicles (Chimeras & Sentinels) for its IG and PDF?

3) How do Sanctioned Psykers make their way to the IG? There's a lot of material that implies ALL Psykers found by the Imperium go to Terra, and the handful who are good enough to be Sanctioned get handed back to the Guard. OTOH, the Scholastica Psykana is apparently a huge training organization... would they have facilities for training Psykers outside of Terra too?

I was thinking of adding a small section of Sanctioned support for the regiment, which would be drawn mainly from the world's local Psykana facility. Again, being relatively isolated, the world would be an okay location for such a facility.

4) Have there been canon examples of an Astartes fief world being transferred back to the Imperium?

Basically, I'm thinking that the regiment's homeworld was originally a fief of a Space Marines Chapter and kept at a medieval level of technology (for SM recruitment), and was allowed to have limited numbers of "Wizards" (for Librarian Recruitment). However, the Chapter was destroyed, and the IG eventually sent one of its "retirement" battlegroups to claim & colonize the world. After several generations, the world had become strong enough to support its first regimental tithe.

5) Finally, a question about Lascannons & Multilasers: I was thinking that it may be the most ideal heavy weapon for a mechanized regiment that expects to be conducting operations independently for a long period of time. All you need is some kind of mobile power unit (maybe a mobile fusion reactor that's part of the logistics train?) to recharge the las weapons.

However, the canon's a bit conflicted about the availability of these weapons. The Codex seems to think they're pretty common since they're just an outgrowth of lasgun technology, but they aren't seen very often in the books (I don't recall even one instance of the Tanith using them).

So... just how common ARE lascannons?

Anyway, may have more questions. Hoping the experts could comment .

[Connor MacLeod]

1) What's a good size for a mechanized regiment? I think there was a Cadian regiment that was featured before which numbered around 3,000 men and 300 items of armor (mainly Chimeras), but I do know the numbers can vary a bit widely. The new IG Codex for instance cites regiments that number 120,000 men - albeit it's formed almost entirely of conscripts and light infantry.

Probably 1-3 thousand troops in my experience usually. Mechanized regiments as a rule don't seem to be so large compared to infantry (or heaven forbid siege regiments) because of their emphasis on vehicles. vehicles aren't supposed to be as common compared to infantry, and their need for (comparatively speaking) greater logistics can be a limiting factor on size. Armoured regiments (some of which have mechanised infantry in them as well as tanks) seem to have the same problem.

Examples of this are the Valhallans from the Ciaphas Cain novels, a number of regiments in the Ia books (Specifically IA3), and the Cadian regiment from Cadian Blood.

Essentially, I was thinking that the regiment was formed in a world that is relatively industrialized, but is very short on labor due to its remote location and lack of colonists. Thus, to meet the IG tithe the world raised a mech regiment, which would be equivalent of more manpower-heavy regiments raised by other worlds in the same sector.

Industrail or civilized non-hive world, then. Some early definitions of 'industrial" world had them as highly automated (well 40k version of automation, usually servitors) but not much in the way of populations (Hive worlds are the opposite.) In 40K, it seems having some sort of "joint" venture with the AdMech is a good way towards being higher tech (Examples such as Glavians from Eisenhorn, who have that fancy circuits in their arms and make great pilots -they have an AdMech colony in their system. Likewise the Vostroyans are partly adminsitered by the AdMech and seem to have very high tech equipment compared to toher Guardsmen.) Say your world is some sort of servitor-production facility (or has those) and they make extensive use of them to meet and make up industry.

2) Are Chimeras & other heavy equipment typically produced by the world the regiment comes from? The sources I've read are a bit conflicting as there's an implication that mechanized regiments are rare because it's expensive for governors to build one up... but also because it's the Forge worlds that produce the bulk of the IG's weapons. On the other hand, you've got Hive Worlds like Armageddon who produce entire regiments of Chimeras and have them start fighting immediately once they reach the end of the assembly line.

Everyone has their own ideas. I can think of lots of examples of planets making their own Chimeras in the novels, but the codexes (esp the IG one) make it seem like this is rare for nything but hive or forge worlds (and fairly rare on hives) It also doesn't help that Forge World has so many chimera variants including a supply/transport one the Trojan which seems to be insanely commonplace.

I'd suspect that like Rhinos it depends on the "tech level" of the Chimera. cheap, shitty ones (without fancy high tech armor or advanced materials used in their construction, or fancy engines or computer systems) probably are more common than sophisticated ones. In the case of an Industrial world (likey ous eem to want to go for) I don't think there would be much problem with them producing Chimeras (even if they are low quality.)

However, what I haven't seen is an example of a world that fields a mechanized regiment without being a Hive World (Armageddon) or being supplied by a Forge World (i.e. Cadia). Are there examples in the canon of a lightly industrialized world that can produce light vehicles (Chimeras & Sentinels) for its IG and PDF?

Probably, although I can't think of one right off the bat. From what I gather in recent fluff the Brimlock dragoons are supposed to be all heavily mechanised (and those that aren't are cavalry) but they are also a 'hive' world. Bear in mind that 'hive world' has come to mean anything from a coruscant-like city-planet to something that is just a more high tech version of modern earth.

3) How do Sanctioned Psykers make their way to the IG? There's a lot of material that implies ALL Psykers found by the Imperium go to Terra, and the handful who are good enough to be Sanctioned get handed back to the Guard. OTOH, the Scholastica Psykana is apparently a huge training organization... would they have facilities for training Psykers outside of Terra too?

Sanctioned psykers are part of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica liek all psykers are. They do the training and allocation of psykeers of all kinds (sanctioned psykers and astropaths both) to the various parts of the imperium (It's their resources, so they negotiate with other organizations to get what they need.) That includes Primaris Psykers (which IIRC are basically the same thing as Sanctioned Psykers.. 5th edition seems to have resurrected alot of older ideas to substitute the previous examples, and this includes sanctioned psykers but they are basically one and the same.)

i suspect they probably do have facilities for training psykers outside of Terra - most organizations do - but the exact examples elude me.

I was thinking of adding a small section of Sanctioned support for the regiment, which would be drawn mainly from the world's local Psykana facility. Again, being relatively isolated, the world would be an okay location for such a facility.

Possibly. Alternately, rather than trying to centralize 'too much' in the system, you could make it that the world has strong ties with or deals with another nearby planet that has such a facility, and part of that deal brings in battle psykers for them to use. The regiment in Cadian Blood had its own psyker.

4) Have there been canon examples of an Astartes fief world being transferred back to the Imperium?

Basically, I'm thinking that the regiment's homeworld was originally a fief of a Space Marines Chapter and kept at a medieval level of technology (for SM recruitment), and was allowed to have limited numbers of "Wizards" (for Librarian Recruitment). However, the Chapter was destroyed, and the IG eventually sent one of its "retirement" battlegroups to claim & colonize the world. After several generations, the world had become strong enough to support its first regimental tithe.

Off the top of my head, probably not. I can't recall any example of it happening.

5) Finally, a question about Lascannons & Multilasers: I was thinking that it may be the most ideal heavy weapon for a mechanized regiment that expects to be conducting operations independently for a long period of time. All you need is some kind of mobile power unit (maybe a mobile fusion reactor that's part of the logistics train?) to recharge the las weapons.

However, the canon's a bit conflicted about the availability of these weapons. The Codex seems to think they're pretty common since they're just an outgrowth of lasgun technology, but they aren't seen very often in the books (I don't recall even one instance of the Tanith using them).

So... just how common ARE lascannons?

Common enough that its not impossible for IG to field them in any numbers. Most Leman Russes can come with a lascannon as part of its armament (for example) Like with Chimeras though, I suspect it depends on the quality of the lascannon more than anything. Shittier lascannon ar emore common than higher end examples.

[Ahriman238]

4) Have there been canon examples of an Astartes fief world being transferred back to the Imperium?

Basically, I'm thinking that the regiment's homeworld was originally a fief of a Space Marines Chapter and kept at a medieval level of technology (for SM recruitment), and was allowed to have limited numbers of "Wizards" (for Librarian Recruitment). However, the Chapter was destroyed, and the IG eventually sent one of its "retirement" battlegroups to claim & colonize the world. After several generations, the world had become strong enough to support its first regimental tithe.

Stranger things have happened. The imperium has lost entire worlds to rounding errors. It is an interesting question, my understanding is that when a Chapter is destroyed, it's homeworld is usually destroyed with it. WIthout a Chapter, they may still want to keep the 'Chapter World' designation, as it makes them exempt from Imreial taxes. However, many chapter worlds raise regiments, usually with the full support and trainging assitance from the chapter.

[Alkaloid]

It's important to remember too that what we see in fluff is normally Guard standard equipment. All Guard APC's are chimeras because if different regiments had different APC's with different logistics requirements it would be a logistics nightmare. It's not impossible for a world to produce a different style APC that is used by the PDF that is replaced by chimeras when the unit is shipped offworld.

[Simon_Jester]

There's a reason Space Marine chapters usually don't get destroyed without their homeworld being taken out- the typical chapter keeps at least some percentage of its marines at home at all times. Only a raid on the chapter's home will kill off all the members of the chapter; otherwise, they'll just hunker down and start painstakingly rebuilding their numbers.

Think of the Crimson Fists, and that's what happened after someone blew up their fortress-monastery.

[Zinegata]

I wasn't actually thinking of making it the home world of the chapter - it's just one of their fief planets ala how the Ultramarines administer numerous planets.

To get into specifics... It's a world that they get recruits from (and I was thinking it supplied a fair number of their Librarians due to the wizardry/witchery class), as well as a minor space station / forging facility manned by Chapter serfs.

The actual home world of the chapter was destroyed when they were annihilated, and the survivors were too few to bring their numbers back up (not enough geneseed as it got burned in the home world), until they eventually died out. I'm actually pondering flashback side-stories exploring this - with the knights of the world wondering why the Space Marines stopped coming to pick champions to bring with them to the stars.

Interesting bit about the Admech being the key to better tech though - I was also pondering of leaving a Space Marine forge still (barely) operational on the world which would result in the Admech getting interested and sending folks after the IG colonized the world. There's certainly a lot of nice plot points to be had by making the world a home of "legacy" items from a fallen SM Chapter (other than "My great great granduncle was a Space Marine!")

As for the point regarding local variant APCs... I was thinking the world used slightly modified Chimeras, but still rely largely on the basic Chimera. Many of the population will be descendants of Guardsmen who retired there after a long campaign (and they'll prolly come from Mech-regiment loving worlds, like Armageddon and Pardus) so there will be stocks of the original kit with them and newly produced copies.

Also, additional question: Nobody has used the name "Brennus" in 40K yet, right? (I searched the wikis) And nobody has yet used the motto "Vae Victis!"? .

[Simon_Jester]

I wasn't actually thinking of making it the home world of the chapter - it's just one of their fief planets ala how the Ultramarines administer numerous planets.

I think the Ultramarines are actually unusual in that regard.

But the rest of your background sounds really cool, so why not go with it?

[NecronLord]

If you don't have it, get the Munitorum Manual. It has a chapter that talks about how a regiment is raised and its equipment procured.

[Whiskey144]

And nobody has yet used the motto "Vae Victis!"?

As a motto? Nope. However, it is worth noting that the strike cruiser that the 4th Company Ultramarines of the epynomous series employ is titled "Vae Victis".

[Connor MacLeod]

One possibility is that the homeworld was perhaps a lost 'forge world' or some sort of old DAoT or similar industrial world. Maybe it was one of the explorator missions that tried setting up a planet and failed. Say the regiment who founded the colony had conquered it and discovered STC data. We know from "First and Only" that people who do that can benefit greatly from such discoveries, especially with the AdMech. We also know form the Ecclesiarchy/Sisters of Battle example that you can barter STC (or similar) data with the AdMech to get advantages or concessions (that is, IIRC how they got their gear.)

Say that one of the STC data was for a pattern of chimera with a new or different reactor. Some sort of fuel cell perhaps that runs on hydrogen, or a compact reactor of some kind (nuclear powered chimeras have shown up in fluff at least once, and were mentioned in the IG codexes at least in 2nd edition.)

If they traded the info to the AdMech for som benefits or concessions you could probably justify giving them some exotic equipment, like nuclear powered chimeras or something (which could benefit you with a 'free' recharge source.)

A second (or parallel) way to tie the AdMech in is for the planet to have some important resource the admech wants or needs. For example Glavia again draws and deals with the Admehc because they have lots of silicon which the AdMech likes. As a consequence of this they tend to be fairly high tech (higher tech than most Imperial worlds) with a better understanding of technology. They also get the neat stuff like the implants (although less common than Eisenhorn the novel implies) and needlers.

You could probably even work the two together.. some important STC data or such to draw them in, and valuable resources of some kind to keep them there, both of which could be leveraged for the sorts of advantages that could 'explain' your regiment.

[Sinewmire]

2) Are Chimeras & other heavy equipment typically produced by the world the regiment comes from? The sources I've read are a bit conflicting as there's an implication that mechanized regiments are rare because it's expensive for governors to build one up... but also because it's the Forge worlds that produce the bulk of the IG's weapons. On the other hand, you've got Hive Worlds like Armageddon who produce entire regiments of Chimeras and have them start fighting immediately once they reach the end of the assembly line.

However, what I haven't seen is an example of a world that fields a mechanized regiment without being a Hive World (Armageddon) or being supplied by a Forge World (i.e. Cadia). Are there examples in the canon of a lightly industrialized world that can produce light vehicles (Chimeras & Sentinels) for its IG and PDF?

Outsourcing. The planetary governor could have, for example, made a trade agreement with the Mechanicus to produce Chimeras in his manufactoria at the cost of increased Mechanicum oversight of his forges. I seem to recall details like that though for the life of me I can't remember where.

3) How do Sanctioned Psykers make their way to the IG? There's a lot of material that implies ALL Psykers found by the Imperium go to Terra, and the handful who are good enough to be Sanctioned get handed back to the Guard. OTOH, the Scholastica Psykana is apparently a huge training organization... would they have facilities for training Psykers outside of Terra too?

I was thinking of adding a small section of Sanctioned support for the regiment, which would be drawn mainly from the world's local Psykana facility. Again, being relatively isolated, the world would be an okay location for such a facility.

I'd imagine they come via the Inquisiton, attached to the unit by order of the Commisariat (don't they or the Inquisiton usually provide "handlers?") like a Commissar, though obviously less frequent.

I can't imagine that the post heresy Imperium would let a world produce and maintain it's own Sanctioned support for the same reason Arbitrators never serve on their own home worlds.

4) Have there been canon examples of an Astartes fief world being transferred back to the Imperium?

Basically, I'm thinking that the regiment's homeworld was originally a fief of a Space Marines Chapter and kept at a medieval level of technology (for SM recruitment), and was allowed to have limited numbers of "Wizards" (for Librarian Recruitment). However, the Chapter was destroyed, and the IG eventually sent one of its "retirement" battlegroups to claim & colonize the world. After several generations, the world had become strong enough to support its first regimental tithe.

It doesn't have to be a space Marine HW to be medieval. The Imperium could just have set up a few churches and a spaceport to handle tithes, set up a governor on an orbital space station (so he doesn't have to be inconvenienced by the primitive nature of his posting) or something similar and left the poor sods to it.

5) Finally, a question about Lascannons & Multilasers: I was thinking that it may be the most ideal heavy weapon for a mechanized regiment that expects to be conducting operations independently for a long period of time. All you need is some kind of mobile power unit (maybe a mobile fusion reactor that's part of the logistics train?) to recharge the las weapons.

However, the canon's a bit conflicted about the availability of these weapons. The Codex seems to think they're pretty common since they're just an outgrowth of lasgun technology, but they aren't seen very often in the books (I don't recall even one instance of the Tanith using them).

So... just how common ARE lascannons?

The Ghosts don't use them becaue they're light infantry based, so they prefer stuff that's easy to carry and set up and take down, such as rocket tubes and flamers with few exceptions (the odd autocannon).

Lascannons are bigger, bulkier and less manportable, I'd actually expect to see them in mechanised regiments more often as the chimeras could carry them most of the time.

[Zinegata]

If you don't have it, get the Munitorum Manual. It has a chapter that talks about how a regiment is raised and its equipment procured.

Yep, I have it. I mentioned the Cadians as being equipped by a supporting Forge World since the example in the Munitorum Manual (Cadian 91st) has them picking up their gear from other sources (except the lasguns which were explicitly locally-produced), although strangely it also says that the Cadian 91st never had to leave Cadia and was fed straight into battle :p.

Also, thanks to everyone who provided answers. Connor's inputs were very helpful in particular, as usual.

[Simon_Jester]

It would be easy for the Cadians to stockpile supplies of foreign-made weapons on their own planet. Indeed, since they seem to get randomly invaded by huge, murderous armies bent on conquering their world on a regular basis, they'd be fools not to.

In which case a Cadian army unit would just report to the local armory (where the weapons are stored), get their gear, and head out, rather than traveling elsewhere to pick up their weapons.

[Zinegata]

Yeah, pretty much. The description of the 91st mustering implies they went through the "normal" procedure though - which was to pick up equipment in a different planet. I suspect that it was also partly meant to imply that they do have different ways of going about arming a regiment, despite all of those regulations saying that you shouldn't do it or else you will be shot :p.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm not seeing the inconsistency here. Given the way you're describing the situation, why can't the 91st have armed itself on Cadia (thus never leaving Cadia) with weapons not made on Cadia?

[Connor MacLeod]

"getting from another planet" could just mean they picked up vehicles or certain other kinds of gear not produced on Cadia. Most of the basic stuff (weapons, armor, uniform/clothing, the supplies they live by, etc.) probably all comes from Cadia. The planet is designed to defend itself against chaos, so tyou'd think it would stockpile food, spare parts, munitions, etc.

[Zinegata]

Exact wording from Munitorum Manual is as follows:

"Many regiments once equipped and trained will only have limited numbers of armoured units or artillery and many will travel to the nearest Forge World of the Adeptus Mechanicus to take on extra heavy weaponry..."

While the wording very much implies this is just the "general procedure", the text never says the 91st got its gear any other way. I'm agreeing that they probably just got stuff from off-world that was stored in a big depot in Cadia itself, but I am also saying that the MM says standard procedure is to actually go to a Forge World and pick up new gear and that the MM is discretely silent about the exemptions.

[Simon_Jester]

"Most do it" isn't the same as "we enforce this standard procedure on pain of pain," though.

[Connor MacLeod]

Much of the Munitorum manual is lifted more or less from the 2nd edition IG codex.. I mean alot of it. If you look at the accompanying vehicle manual that was never published but released online (ages ago) they lifted a ton more stuff for vehicles from that as well. I forget if I posted that but..

Anyhow I'm pretty sure most IG codexes since 2nd have included some line somewhere to the effect "some regiments go to forge worlds to pick shit up they can't get on their homeworlds." Or they get it from some stockpile/storage world the Munitorum runs. I suspect the bulk of supplies for most regiments comes from the homeworlds raising them, though. The Munitorum isnt known for generosity with its stockpiles.

[Purple]

Another thing to consider is just what "go to forge worlds to pick stuff up" means. It might just mean that the regiment sends a ship to the forge world to file an order and than carry it back. Or it might even mean that when the regiment is being formed they submit an order for equipment and than they send a ship for it or it gets sent to them. There is no need to assume that they transport the entire regiment worth of troops to the forge world and back.