Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

User avatar
G1d3on
Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: 2011-10-07 10:44pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by G1d3on »

No, I don't have a copy of the book. I’ve been keeping tabs of spoilers and information related to Darth Plagueis, as many advanced copies of the book have been released to specific reviewers and they have been unusually generous with their information. MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW FOR THE PLAGUEIS NOVEL; you have been warned.

General plot spoilers
Spoiler
The prologue of the book apparently takes place during the events of The Phantom Menace, after Sidious has been elected Chancellor. He has just killed Plagueis and is enjoying the exquisite sensation of the disturbance in the Force wrought by his Master’s death; after confirming the kill, he ponders Plagueis’s own history and appears to flow-walk back through time to experience it.

From there, the book takes place at 67 BBY during the final days of Plagueis’s apprenticeship to Darth Tenebrous.

Bane’s order apparently lost the ability to transfer their essence when one of their number died, losing the technique until Sidious rediscovers it sometime after the rise of the Empire.

After killing his Master, Plagueis experiments in the Force and eventually discovers a teenage Palpatine on Naboo and trains him in the Sith arts.

The second section of the book jumps several years ahead to where Palpatine is an adult and focuses on his own political and Force-related machinations.

The third section introduces Darth Maul and concludes the relationship between Sidious and Plagueis.

Qui-Gon, Valorum, Jabba the Hutt, and Dooku all appear; Dooku’s corruption by Sidious is apparently shown.

Plagueis is apparently aware—but not responsible—for the Chosen One’s birth and believes it is the result of the Force striking back at Sidious for shifting the balance in favor of the dark side.

The circle completes itself; Sidious and Plagueis celebrate Sidious’s election; Sidious inebriates Plagueis and kills him via Force lightning.
Plagueis-specific plot spoilers
Spoiler
Plagueis is an obscenely wealthy Muun who operates a business empire under the alias Hego Damask.

After killing Tenebrous, he plans to dismantle the Rule of Two—he believes himself to be the Sith Lord who will achieve immortality and triumph over the Jedi.

Plagueis’s reputation as an obsessed mystic is apparently confirmed in this novel; he is said to be relatively unskilled in the martial aspects of the Force.

He has learned to observe the actions of midichlorians through deep study and meditation in the Force.

He is attacked by his Master’s secret apprentice, a Bith called Vemis; Plagueis manages to defeat him and, rather than kill him, holds him captive and conducts Force experiments on him in order to manipulate midichlorians.

Plagueis discovers Palpatine on accident and determines it is “the will of the Force” that brought them together.

Plagueis is aware that Sidious is training Maul, but has never met him—he in fact advises Sidious to train him in the manner of a Sith Assassin.

Plagueis eventually discovers the ability to manipulate midichlorians and the ability to resurrect the dead; he uses the former power to reverse his aging and the latter during his Force experiments.

Plagueis eventually regards Sidious as something of a trusted friend or non-threat. He believes he will rule the galaxy from the shadows with Sidious as his co-conspirator and public face.

Plagueis trained himself in the Force not to sleep, hence why Sidious gets him drunk instead.
Sidious-specific plot spoilers
Spoiler
Palpatine apparently is in many ways the main character on whom the novel is ultimately focused.

Palpatine introduced as a 17-year-old malcontent of status and wealth who tires of the corruption and stagnation in the galaxy.

Plagueis tries to see Palpatine in the Force and is apparently horrified and an intrigued by what he sees.

At Plagueis’s urging, Palpatine murders his entire family and joins the dark side. The actual murder is apparently exceedingly brutal: Palpatine, untrained and raw, uses the Force to bludgeon and brutalize his family and their many trained guards to death-- breaking necks, strangling, removing limbs, etc.

Sidious apparently learns from Plagueis the ability to resurrect the dead. His power to hide himself in the Force while drawing on massive amounts of power is hinted to be natural, though Plagueis explains how this is possible.

Sidious retrieves Maul from Dathomir; his mother wished to spare him enslavement by the Nightsister order.

Plagueis perceives a filial relationship between Maul and Sidious, but this may simply be a deception; other reviewers say Sidious isn’t really concerned when Maul is killed.

Sidious’s rise to power in the Senate is a major section of this book, and apparently includes his corruption of Count Dooku.

Reviewers say that Sidious is portrayed to be utterly evil but a few have also said that he has moments of emotion; apparently, as he kills Plagueis, he emotionally unleashes himself upon him: Boasting about his deception, berating Plagueis for his foolishness, and blaming Plagueis for convincing him to kill his family. On the other hand, spoilers have also indicated that Palpatine is something of a Jack-the-Ripper personality who is predisposed to murdering and it is hinted that this is one of the reasons why he relocates to Coruscant: to indulge his murderous fetish in a place where crime and corruption are ubiquitous and his own misdeeds are easy to conceal.
User avatar
PainRack
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7583
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:03am
Location: Singapura

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by PainRack »

I liked Timothy Zahn as a novelist, but his Star Wars work as a whole... well, he IS extremely fond of his characters. Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, Thrawn....

The only other author who as fond as his characters is Michael Stackpole.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Thanas »

The Romulan Republic wrote:25,000 Star Destroyers really isn't that minimalist. Certainly not in the same league as 3 million clones, or even Zahns' early concept of 200 outdated cruisers being a major factor in the Galactic Civil War.
Wasn't that pretty much explained to only make things different in the sense of having more ships available? As in, if both nations can only committ a tiny percentage of their forces to battle anyways, that might tip the balance?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10378
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Solauren »

Thanas wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:25,000 Star Destroyers really isn't that minimalist. Certainly not in the same league as 3 million clones, or even Zahns' early concept of 200 outdated cruisers being a major factor in the Galactic Civil War.
Wasn't that pretty much explained to only make things different in the sense of having more ships available? As in, if both nations can only committ a tiny percentage of their forces to battle anyways, that might tip the balance?
Or it could be the fighting up to that point had destroyed alot of ships (Warlords beating the hell out of each other will use up resources quick), or that the two sides were so evenly matched adding 200 ships on either side really was a deal breaker.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
FTeik
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2035
Joined: 2002-07-16 04:12pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by FTeik »

From what I remember it was two-hundred additional ships, that could be quickly crewed thanks to the Mount Tantiss-clones .

Talon Karrde himself says as much in TLC, that the Katana-Dreadnoughts won't shift the balance much, until Luke informs him about the accelerated growth-rate of the clones.
The optimist thinks, that we live in the best of all possible worlds and the pessimist is afraid, that this is true.

"Don't ask, what your country can do for you. Ask, what you can do for your country." Mao Tse-Tung.
User avatar
Havok
Miscreant
Posts: 13016
Joined: 2005-07-02 10:41pm
Location: Oakland CA
Contact:

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Havok »

Huh. Interesting.

I don't know if I like the idea of Sidious training Maul while apprenticing, although it does make a bit of sense.

Plageius sounds like they pulled him off well.

I also don't know why people feel the need to shoehorn someone into one character type/archetype. Why is it so hard for Palpatine to be a mix or even a new archetype.

And, relocating to Coruscant seems like a necessity if one is to openly run the galaxy as chancellor.
Image
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
User avatar
G1d3on
Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: 2011-10-07 10:44pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by G1d3on »

The reviews I've read about Plagueis are consistently positive in the extreme.
User avatar
Eframepilot
Jedi Master
Posts: 1007
Joined: 2002-09-05 03:35am

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Eframepilot »

It sounds like the Rule of Two was really more of a guideline than a rule. One or two extra apprentices were overlooked. Though throwing it away entirely to set up a full Sith Order was never done, even by the Emperor.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10378
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Solauren »

Eframepilot wrote:It sounds like the Rule of Two was really more of a guideline than a rule. One or two extra apprentices were overlooked. Though throwing it away entirely to set up a full Sith Order was never done, even by the Emperor.
Nah. He just had the Secret Order, Prophets of the Dark Side, Imperial Inquistors, various fallen Dark Jedi, and numerous 'Hands'.

No Sith order, nope.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Eframepilot
Jedi Master
Posts: 1007
Joined: 2002-09-05 03:35am

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Eframepilot »

Solauren wrote: Nah. He just had the Secret Order, Prophets of the Dark Side, Imperial Inquistors, various fallen Dark Jedi, and numerous 'Hands'.

No Sith order, nope.
Nonetheless those were virtually all covert operatives to some degree, while Darth Vader enjoyed public recognition of his title as Dark Lord of the Sith.
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6172
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by bilateralrope »

Eframepilot wrote:It sounds like the Rule of Two was really more of a guideline than a rule.
Has there ever been anyone is a position to enforce the Rule of Two ?
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Most of those folks were probably less powerful than Vader or Palpatine too.

Edit: referring to the various other Force users Palpatine had, in terms of their strength with the Force.
User avatar
Eframepilot
Jedi Master
Posts: 1007
Joined: 2002-09-05 03:35am

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Eframepilot »

bilateralrope wrote:
Eframepilot wrote:It sounds like the Rule of Two was really more of a guideline than a rule.
Has there ever been anyone is a position to enforce the Rule of Two ?
The two Dark Lords of the Sith are the enforcers of the rule, particularly the senior Sith Lord. But it seems from the novel that Plagueis's apprentice and master both broke the rule, and Plagueis himself didn't try to enforce it beyond not choosing more than one apprentice himself.
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Some of the stuff in that spoiler text sounds strange.
Spoiler
1. If Plagueis didn't find Palpatine until he was in his late teens, how is that Palpatine was never picked up by the scouts of the Jedi Temple? Did his family refuse to give him over? Yes, Naboo is out in the Outer Rim, but it's not like Anakin on Tatooine (where he was a slave on a planet controlled by gangsters) - Palpatine came from a rich family on the planet.

2. How did Palpatine disperse the blame for brutally murdering his entire family plus their many guards?
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
User avatar
G1d3on
Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: 2011-10-07 10:44pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by G1d3on »

Guardsman Bass wrote:Some of the stuff in that spoiler text sounds strange.
Spoiler
1. If Plagueis didn't find Palpatine until he was in his late teens, how is that Palpatine was never picked up by the scouts of the Jedi Temple? Did his family refuse to give him over? Yes, Naboo is out in the Outer Rim, but it's not like Anakin on Tatooine (where he was a slave on a planet controlled by gangsters) - Palpatine came from a rich family on the planet.

2. How did Palpatine disperse the blame for brutally murdering his entire family plus their many guards?
Spoiler
1. Remember that Force-sensitivity isn't always easily detected, even in those who aren't trying to conceal it. Anakin has the strongest connection to the Force in the mythos and Qui-Gon only noticed after being in close proximity and interaction with him. Leia, whose Force potential is supposedly equal to Luke's, managed to waltz around Coruscant right under Palpatine's nose for years. So for someone like Palpatine, while pretty powerful in the Force but not on the level of the Skywalkers, it's believable that the Jedi wouldn't notice.

2. I'm not sure. I could ask if you'd like.
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Guardsman Bass »

G1d3on wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:Some of the stuff in that spoiler text sounds strange.
Spoiler
1. If Plagueis didn't find Palpatine until he was in his late teens, how is that Palpatine was never picked up by the scouts of the Jedi Temple? Did his family refuse to give him over? Yes, Naboo is out in the Outer Rim, but it's not like Anakin on Tatooine (where he was a slave on a planet controlled by gangsters) - Palpatine came from a rich family on the planet.

2. How did Palpatine disperse the blame for brutally murdering his entire family plus their many guards?
Spoiler
1. Remember that Force-sensitivity isn't always easily detected, even in those who aren't trying to conceal it. Anakin has the strongest connection to the Force in the mythos and Qui-Gon only noticed after being in close proximity and interaction with him. Leia, whose Force potential is supposedly equal to Luke's, managed to waltz around Coruscant right under Palpatine's nose for years. So for someone like Palpatine, while pretty powerful in the Force but not on the level of the Skywalkers, it's believable that the Jedi wouldn't notice.

2. I'm not sure. I could ask if you'd like.
Spoiler
1. That's true, but the Jedi do seem to find talent fairly well within the Republic . . . as far as we know. And while it's on the Outer Rim, Naboo is definitely a Republic world (unlike Tatooine).

2. I asked because Palpatine is supposedly this respectable pro-Republic Senator by the time of TPM. If he murdered his entire wealthy family plus their many guards and didn't get away with it somehow, he's likely to end up in prison, not as a prominent Senator. I was curious as to how the book justified it.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Eframepilot wrote:
bilateralrope wrote:
Eframepilot wrote:It sounds like the Rule of Two was really more of a guideline than a rule.
Has there ever been anyone is a position to enforce the Rule of Two ?
The two Dark Lords of the Sith are the enforcers of the rule, particularly the senior Sith Lord. But it seems from the novel that Plagueis's apprentice and master both broke the rule, and Plagueis himself didn't try to enforce it beyond not choosing more than one apprentice himself.
Evan Darth Bane, the creator of the Rule of Two , was not as harsh in enforcing it as it would seem. Bane begins training the Huntress before his showdown with Zannah, his original apprentice, is complete after she attempts to usurp the mantle of Dark Lord.
User avatar
G1d3on
Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: 2011-10-07 10:44pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by G1d3on »

Guardsman Bass wrote:Spoiler
1. That's true, but the Jedi do seem to find talent fairly well within the Republic . . . as far as we know. And while it's on the Outer Rim, Naboo is definitely a Republic world (unlike Tatooine).

2. I asked because Palpatine is supposedly this respectable pro-Republic Senator by the time of TPM. If he murdered his entire wealthy family plus their many guards and didn't get away with it somehow, he's likely to end up in prison, not as a prominent Senator. I was curious as to how the book justified it.
Spoiler
1. True, the Jedi's methods of identifying Force sensitivity in children remain a mystery to me. Perhaps on Republic-worlds it is suggested, if not outright compulsory, that children submit blood samples for midichlorian counts, the results of which would then be sent to the Jedi?

2. Well I know that The Complete Visual Dictionary mentions that Palpatine's background records "mysteriously vanished" sometime during the prequels. I'll pop the proverbial question at one of the reviewers and get back to you.
User avatar
G1d3on
Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: 2011-10-07 10:44pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by G1d3on »

Sorry for the double post, but I guess the edit function disappears after a certain lapse of time?

Guardsman_Bass, they answered your question, but I suspect you won't find it satisfying:
Spoiler
"Remember this is Palpatine/Sidious we are talking about... he never has to "cook" (as you said) up a cover story because he's so good at being evil. (AND getting people to do things against their will...)

Just a short explanation (maybe)... the murder of his parents (the how) even astonishes/horrifies Plagueis.

Remember kids... "tastes like chicken!" (You started it... LOL)"
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Guardsman Bass »

What? That's retarded.
Spoiler
He's just "so good at being evil/getting people to do things against their will" that he didn't need to come up with a cover story as to why his entire family and their retainers were brutally massacred? What, did he mind-control everybody who had the power to decide whether or not he got Senatorial status into forgetting things to keep the scandal from tainting him (or him getting sent to jail)? Mind-control the press in the Republic, who are naturally going to be curious about this rising new star and Supreme Chancellor, and start asking questions back on Naboo?

That sounds more like ass-covering than anything else, and bad ass-covering at that. They obviously came up with this idea of having Palpatine murder his family to show how evil he is, and then didn't bother to think things through.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Its not that hard to justify, from what I'm seeing. How the fuck would he be able to Spoiler
murder his whole family and their guards? Almost no one knows he can use the Force. If he murdered people with the Force or a light sabre there wouldn't even be forensic evidence like DNA and fingerprints, and if there was, it could just as easily have gotten their by some other means (given they're his family). I presume Palpatine wasn't clumsy enough to leave living witnesses or intact security recordings. If anything, it would be something else he could play up to gain more sympathy from the public. Ie, "Poor Senator Palpatine, his whole family was brutally murdered. Isn't he brave? Don't you feel bad for him?"
User avatar
G1d3on
Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: 2011-10-07 10:44pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by G1d3on »

Spoiler
I'm inclined to concur with Romulan Republic on this one. Based on what I've been told in conjunction with the reviewer's response, Sidious murders his family telekinetically and then mind-controls someone to take the fall?
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10378
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by Solauren »

Spoiler
Or, you know, since it was obviously done by a Force-user, and Palpatine wasn't known to be one, he was never a suspect to begin with....
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
G1d3on
Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: 2011-10-07 10:44pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by G1d3on »

http://www.randomhouse.com/book/7859/st ... no#excerpt

^ An excerpt posted on Random House's website for those who may be interested.
User avatar
JME2
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12258
Joined: 2003-02-02 04:04pm

Re: Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

Post by JME2 »

Unrelated note - I really enjoyed the excerpt from the Darth Plagueis audiobook and I hope that Daniel Davis sticks around as the Star Wars audiobook narrator for a while. I couldn't stand Marc Thompson's stint as narrator.
Post Reply