Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
Moderator: Edi
Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt
ABC/Reuters
— NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.
According to the criminal complaint filed on Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.
"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.
When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read.
No, no sir I don't like it.
— NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.
According to the criminal complaint filed on Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.
"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.
When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read.
No, no sir I don't like it.
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
I think there is likely more to the story than that. Perhaps his behavior also influenced actions. If the story is genuine though, I foresee a nasty and costly lawsuit.
Last edited by jegs2 on 2003-03-05 03:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
Like Jegs, I think there is more to the story than that.
But, last time I checked the Constitution was in effect, and if the Mall didn't want anti-war propaganda in the building, they should have told the store that was selling it, not harrased the man who bought it.
But, last time I checked the Constitution was in effect, and if the Mall didn't want anti-war propaganda in the building, they should have told the store that was selling it, not harrased the man who bought it.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Here is the mall"s response http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80292,00.html
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
From that articletheski wrote:Here is the mall"s response http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80292,00.html
Funny how the response doesn't clarify exactly what the lawyer was doing that was disruptive.Crossgates Mall security received a complaint regarding two individuals disrupting customers.
The response from the mall administration sounds infinitely more bullshitive than the lawyer's story.
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
- Luke Starkiller
- Jedi Knight
- Posts: 788
- Joined: 2002-08-08 08:55pm
- Location: Ottawa, Canada
It does actually, sort of. It says that the security guards asked him to take it off or leave and he refused so they got him for tresspassing.IG-88E wrote:Funny how your original artical never explicitly states that he was arrested for what the t-shirt says.Funny how the response doesn't clarify exactly what the lawyer was doing that was disruptive.
There has to me more to this story than this though.
What kind of dark wizard in league with nameless forces of primordial evil ARE you that you can't even make a successful sanity check versus BOREDOM? - Red Mage
My problem with this is not that they were asked to leave and then subsequently arrested when they failed to do that:
Shops/malls are private property and the security have the right to ask people to leave without even giving a reason if they feel so inclined.
What gets me is that a Store within the Mall was allowed to sell these same T-shirts that they got into so much trouble for wearing.
I'm still trying to decide wether it's the individual shop or the Mall itself that's at fault here. That would be dependant on things I don't know, but I'm guessing that ultimately this will probably fall on the head of the mall rather than the T-shirt shop.
Shops/malls are private property and the security have the right to ask people to leave without even giving a reason if they feel so inclined.
What gets me is that a Store within the Mall was allowed to sell these same T-shirts that they got into so much trouble for wearing.
I'm still trying to decide wether it's the individual shop or the Mall itself that's at fault here. That would be dependant on things I don't know, but I'm guessing that ultimately this will probably fall on the head of the mall rather than the T-shirt shop.
Read it through CAREFULLY Luke. And don't just read what the reporter says, read the quotes:Luke Starkiller wrote:It does actually, sort of. It says that the security guards asked him to take it off or leave and he refused so they got him for tresspassing.IG-88E wrote: Funny how your original artical never explicitly states that he was arrested for what the t-shirt says.
There has to me more to this story than this though.
Downs said police tried to convince him he was wrong in his actions by refusing to remove the T-shirt because the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly."
-interesting, don't you think?
"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.
-now, here's where Reuters is aasking you to make a leap in logic from "man weraing peace t-shirt thrown out" to "man thrown out FOR wearing peace t-shirt" when it's not necessarily true.
It's not the largest leap in logic I've ever seen, but it is one. And I still wonder what ELSE was on the t-shirt.
JADAFETWA
- Luke Starkiller
- Jedi Knight
- Posts: 788
- Joined: 2002-08-08 08:55pm
- Location: Ottawa, Canada
IG-88E wrote:Read it through CAREFULLY Luke. And don't just read what the reporter says, read the quotes:Luke Starkiller wrote:It does actually, sort of. It says that the security guards asked him to take it off or leave and he refused so they got him for tresspassing.IG-88E wrote: Funny how your original artical never explicitly states that he was arrested for what the t-shirt says.
There has to me more to this story than this though.
Downs said police tried to convince him he was wrong in his actions by refusing to remove the T-shirt because the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly."
-interesting, don't you think?
Yes, it would indicate that there is more to this than the shirt simply saying 'give peace a chance'. Off hand I can think of several illustrations that could go along with that and be 'inappropriate.'
What do they mean by "the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly."" though? That sentance needs to be in context to make any sense.
Since he was given the ultimatum of taking off the shirt or leaving then that indicates that the shirt was the reason for his expulsion. I also am interested in finding out the entirety of what was on the shirt."I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.
-now, here's where Reuters is aasking you to make a leap in logic from "man weraing peace t-shirt thrown out" to "man thrown out FOR wearing peace t-shirt" when it's not necessarily true.
It's not the largest leap in logic I've ever seen, but it is one. And I still wonder what ELSE was on the t-shirt.
What kind of dark wizard in league with nameless forces of primordial evil ARE you that you can't even make a successful sanity check versus BOREDOM? - Red Mage
Yes, the shirt was the reason, however, the articale never says that it was because it was a pro-peace shirt.Luke Starkiller wrote:Since he was given the ultimatum of taking off the shirt or leaving then that indicates that the shirt was the reason for his expulsion.
Yes, there are a thousand other reason it could have gotten him thrown out. For example, what if he bought the shirt, then went into the bathroom, took a magic marker or something, and wrote "I'm gonna fuck your bitch ass." on the back? Granted, that's quite unlikely, but it would give the mall grounds for ejecting him because of the shirt.I also am interested in finding out the entirety of what was on the shirt.
JADAFETWA
-
- What Kind of Username is That?
- Posts: 9254
- Joined: 2002-07-10 08:53pm
- Location: Back in PA
There must be some sort of hidden motive, I don't believe wearing a "peace" T-shirt is reason enough to throw someone out of a mall. After all, I've seen far more offensive clothing at the mall.
Perhaps the security guard thought the guy was hot and was just using the shirt as an excuse to see him topless.
Perhaps the security guard thought the guy was hot and was just using the shirt as an excuse to see him topless.
BotM: Just another monkey|HAB
Fucking media and their agendas. Why do we have to sit here and FUCKING PIECE TOGTHER what happened when the news is supposed to do that????!!!!
Maybe because they have an agenda they are trying to support? How about reporting the fucking facts and not make it into a guessing game? If he was thrown out soley for the shirt (which I think the majority of us don;t seem to agree with this INTERPRETATION) then say so! If he was being an asshole and abusing the shopping public then say so! News is about reporting the facts, not spinning it to your viewpoint. In other words, don't INTERPRET the news for me, that's MY fucking job, NOT some liberal arts major in communications. Fuckers.
Maybe because they have an agenda they are trying to support? How about reporting the fucking facts and not make it into a guessing game? If he was thrown out soley for the shirt (which I think the majority of us don;t seem to agree with this INTERPRETATION) then say so! If he was being an asshole and abusing the shopping public then say so! News is about reporting the facts, not spinning it to your viewpoint. In other words, don't INTERPRET the news for me, that's MY fucking job, NOT some liberal arts major in communications. Fuckers.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Ah, you've hit the crux of the matter, Strav. News USED to be news. Period. Now, news is considered entertainment, and the media is more intersted in keeping viewers than reporting fair and balanced news. In other words, it shouldn't be lent as much credence as many people are willing to give it.Stravo wrote:News is about reporting the facts, not spinning it to your viewpoint. In other words, don't INTERPRET the news for me, that's MY fucking job, NOT some liberal arts major in communications. Fuckers.
JADAFETWA
Here's a bit more to the story.
I think the bolded part is interesting.
SourceDAMITA CHAMBERS, Associated Press Writer wrote:GUILDERLAND, N.Y. - About 100 anti-war demonstrators marched through a mall Wednesday to protest the arrest of a shopper who wore a T-shirt that read "Peace on Earth" and "Give Peace a Chance."
"We just want to know what the policy is and why it's being randomly enforced," said Erin O'Brien, an organizer of the noontime rally at the Crossgates Mall.
Protest leaders were scheduled to meet with the mall's manager after the rally. Calls to mall officials were not immediately returned.
On Monday, Stephen Downs, 61, and his son were asked by mall security guards to remove their peace-slogan shirts or leave. Downs' 31-year-old son, Roger, took off his shirt. But Downs refused.
The guards called police, and he was charged with trespassing and pleaded innocent.
Police Chief James Murley said: "We don't care what they have on their shirts, but they were asked to leave the property, and it's private property."
The men had had the T-shirts made at a mall store and wore them while they shopped.
I think the bolded part is interesting.
Member of the BotM. @( !.! )@
edit ops~~ nevermind
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
That's why we have Fox News as a counterbalance to the liberal media. They report the whole story...Stravo wrote:Fucking media and their agendas. Why do we have to sit here and FUCKING PIECE TOGTHER what happened when the news is supposed to do that????!!!!
Maybe because they have an agenda they are trying to support? How about reporting the fucking facts and not make it into a guessing game? If he was thrown out soley for the shirt (which I think the majority of us don;t seem to agree with this INTERPRETATION) then say so! If he was being an asshole and abusing the shopping public then say so! News is about reporting the facts, not spinning it to your viewpoint. In other words, don't INTERPRET the news for me, that's MY fucking job, NOT some liberal arts major in communications. Fuckers.
This phase inherently pisses me off. It can mean almost anything, yet it's almost always meant to be interpereted in a negative fashion.Protest leaders were scheduled to meet with the mall's manager after the rally. Calls to mall officials were not immediately returned.
If a reporter calls me house when I'm at work, he's certainly not going to have his call returned until I get home hours later. If he dials a wrong number, I'm of course not going to reply. Yet somehow, all the blame rests with me. Goddamn media.
JADAFETWA
What liberal media?That's why we have Fox News as a counterbalance to the liberal media. They report the whole story...
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
Speaking of spining, My Girlfriend likes to watch The Today show in the morning. I can't even go in the same room. If I hear Katie Curic spin and slant the war news and questions to quests, I am going to throw the tv out the damm window.. She is the worst..
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
Ever watch Hannity and Combs? That's one of the few news shows I actually pay attention to. Between a far right (Hannity) and a far left (Combs) the two of them will take a point, argue it to death, then beat it the dead point with a stick, just to make sure they've covered every possible avenue of looking at it.jegs2 wrote:That's why we have Fox News as a counterbalance to the liberal media. They report the whole story...
JADAFETWA
From what I've heard, Combs is a bit of an outcast in the liberal community for participating on Fox News...IG-88E wrote:Ever watch Hannity and Combs? That's one of the few news shows I actually pay attention to. Between a far right (Hannity) and a far left (Combs) the two of them will take a point, argue it to death, then beat it the dead point with a stick, just to make sure they've covered every possible avenue of looking at it.