Putin's United Russia party suffers poll setback

[Steve]

Mikhail Gorbachev chimes in, calling for new elections.

[K. A. Pital]

How does it feel to be a stooge for Hillary Clinton, Stas?

I'm on MOSSAD's pay.

Mikhail Gorbachev chimes in, calling for new elections.

In other news, zombies arise from the grave.

[Simon_Jester]

Mikhail Gorbachev chimes in, calling for new elections.

In other news, zombies arise from the grave.

Well, at least they're hungering for the brains of the living in a positive and constructive way.

There are worse things for Gorbachev to call for.

[K. A. Pital]

I was more or less commenting that nobody in Russia gives two shits about what Gorby has to say. He's the ultimate political zombie.

Right now there's a real fight between moderate left, social democrats, right-wing libertarians for the protest on the 10th. And even "oppositionary bloggers" right now are more influential than Gorbachov.

[Steve]

I just thought it was interesting, really. Didn't intend for it to be a serious claim that Gorby has influence.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Gorbachev is at best regarded as a criminal who should be charged in court for treason.

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeah, Stas told me as much IRL.

It's amazing how much of a disconnect there is between what you see in medias that saturate the world and the actual thoughts of folks on the ground. From what you see on TV, you'd think everyone in Russia would think Gorby is a hero of freedom fighting Stalin zombies with his axe and being flocked around by Russian chicks squeezing cream-filled sausages like in that youtube video. You wouldn't think people living there actually think he's a sellout.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yeah, Stas told me as much IRL.

It's amazing how much of a disconnect there is between what you see in medias that saturate the world and the actual thoughts of folks on the ground. From what you see on TV, you'd think everyone in Russia would think Gorby is a hero of freedom fighting Stalin zombies with his axe and being flocked around by Russian chicks squeezing cream-filled sausages like in that youtube video. You wouldn't think people living there actually think he's a sellout.

That's because the Western media lionized Yeltsin.

But in truth, he was no better than a brigand.

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeltsin is known to be a drunkard and an oaf whereas, I dunno, Gorby seemed to have a more proper "nice guy" reputation.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yeltsin is known to be a drunkard and an oaf whereas, I dunno, Gorby seemed to have a more proper "nice guy" reputation.

Yeah.

But they revered him for bringing democracy etc. And yeah he was jackass joke of a drunkard no one took seriously, until Mr "Stonefaced" Putin came along.

[Lord Zentei]

They revered him for bringing about an end to the Cold War.

Whereas previously, the USSR had been seen as this inscrutable and monolithic Empire of Communism with tons of nukes and tanks and shit and led by Stalin with his mustache or Khrushchev with his shoe banging or various Grey Eminences like Andropov and Brezhnev, there was suddenly this Reasonable Guy who wanted to talk diplomacy and openness and whatnot.

And yes, because of democracy and trade too - it's always nice when your chief rival comes around to your philosophy. Especially after a cold war with nuclear bomb paranoia.

Though I remember this editorial cartoon of Gorbachev where in the first frame, he was shown emerging from a plane in some Western country (presumably the USA) to cheers and jubilation, and in the second (near-identical) frame he was shown emerging from a plane in the USSR to catcalls and insults. So it's not as if the Western press didn't know about his lack of popularity.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Though I remember this editorial cartoon of Gorbachev where in the first frame, he was shown emerging from a plane in some Western country (presumably the USA) to cheers and jubilation, and in the second (near-identical) frame he was shown emerging from a plane in the USSR to catcalls and insults. So it's not as if the Western press didn't know about his lack of popularity.

They probably knew. But they made little mention of it. Instead, a considerable portion was devoted towards gloating at the malaise in Russia.

[Lord Zentei]

Unsurprising: that's what you'd expect to happen when a cold war of half a century is drawing to a close. There is inevitably going to be some schadenfreude.

More importantly, keep in mind that previously most people expected the division of the world into Capitalistic Democracy vs Communistic Technocracy to:

a) Last in perpetuity, or
b) End in nuclear war.

As tensions declined in Detente, more people were leaning towards (a), but still, the possibility that the world might be united was a novel and very desirable one. Especially since the USSR had been seen as a repressive tyranny.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Unsurprising: that's what you'd expect to happen when a cold war of half a century is drawing to a close. There is inevitably going to be some schadenfreude.

More importantly, keep in mind that previously most people expected the division of the world into Capitalistic Democracy vs Communistic Technocracy to:

a) Last in perpetuity, or
b) End in nuclear war.

As tensions declined in Detente, more people were leaning towards (a), but still, the possibility that the world might be united was a novel and very desirable one. Especially since the USSR had been seen as a repressive tyranny.

Nah. This is simply the usual dehumanizing of the enemy. Every country does it.

[Lord Zentei]

Nah. This is simply the usual dehumanizing of the enemy. Every country does it.

Is that a fact.

I take it you have something to back that up?

Since I seem to recall a considerable amount of sympathy for and euphoria on behalf of the people of Eastern Europe as these events unfolded. The images of the Berlin Wall crumbling and formerly divided populations embracing each other over smashed concrete barriers spring to mind, for example.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Nah. This is simply the usual dehumanizing of the enemy. Every country does it.

Is that a fact.

I take it you have something to back that up?

Since I seem to recall a considerable amount of sympathy for and euphoria on behalf of the people of Eastern Europe as these events unfolded. The images of the Berlin Wall crumbling and formerly divided populations embracing each other over smashed concrete barriers spring to mind, for example.

What? You mean that's news? You Americans indulged in a witch hunt for Commies back in the 50s. You want more proof? You guys went as far as demanding academics sign a document stating they aren't communists in some public universities. Are you seriously going to go deny that?

[Lord Zentei]

I love how you not only assume that I'm an American, but use phrases like "you Americans" in a debate where you're blaming them for dehumanizing people.

Besides which, we're talking about the events during the collapse of Communism in the late 1980s and beginning of the 1990s, and the euphoria on behalf of the common Eastern European during the collapse of what was seen as a tyranny, not the paranoia of the 1950s when people saw agents and sympathizers of said regime in every corner, you fucking retard.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I love how you not only assume that I'm an American, but use phrases like "you Americans" in a debate where you're blaming them for dehumanizing people.

And that is supposed to be a jibe? Do better. Dehumanizing the enemy is nothing new and historically, it has happened repeatedly in every damn war.

Besides which, we're talking about the events during the collapse of Communism in the late 1980s and beginning of the 1990s, and the euphoria on behalf of the common Eastern European during the collapse of what was seen as a tyranny, not the paranoia of the 1950s when people saw agents and sympathizers of said regime in every corner, you fucking retard.

And you assume the paranoia ever died down? What? Georgia invades South Ossetia and the entire European and American media went "Russia invades Georgia!!!", before backing down a little later. Really, what is ever new?

[Lord Zentei]

And that is supposed to be a jibe? Do better. Dehumanizing the enemy is nothing new and historically, it has happened repeatedly in every damn war.

It seems that the point flies straight over you head. I'm accusing you of hypocrisy. And I'm pointing out that your assumptions are inaccurate. The fact that dehumanization of an enemy is common is irrelevant.

And you assume the paranoia ever died down? What? Georgia invades South Ossetia and the entire European and American media went "Russia invades Georgia!!!", before back down a little later. Really, what is ever new?

What the fuck does that have to do with the events of the 1980s and the beginning of the 1990s, and public sympathy for the common man in Eastern Europe during that time, you idiot?

[Battlehymn Republic]

If a regime change occurs in Russia, will they bring back an old flag like Libya did and Syria will? Because that's the best part about the International Spring.

[Vympel]

Russia's current flag is the old flag, more or less.

[Battlehymn Republic]

I guess you're right... everything else looks too explicitly imperial. How about the "celebration" flag?



Wait, on second thought it seems to be mostly used by nationalists and monarchists. Red white and blue is just so cliche though.

Another thing: if both Syria and Russia suffer destabilization due to popular protest, Iran is so fucked.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Any chance there's an heir to the Russian monarchy running around somewhere who can stir things up more? Because thats always entertaining when regimes fall.

[K. A. Pital]

If a regime change occurs in Russia, will they bring back an old flag like Libya did and Syria will? Because that's the best part about the International Spring.

Yes.


Monarchism will suck donkey balls as it always did.

[Tiriol]

Any chance there's an heir to the Russian monarchy running around somewhere who can stir things up more? Because thats always entertaining when regimes fall.

Of course there is, Romanovs were rather plentiful and even if not a single Romanov would survive, the imperial family had blood connections to many other ruling families of Europe - a pretender might arise from Britain or Germany etc. Of course that's very unlikely and I don't even know if there's a single Romanov who'd like to make any claims.