Mitt Romney Totally Honest to Gay Veteran About Own Bigotry

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Mitt Romney Totally Honest to Gay Veteran About Own Bigotry

Post by Dalton »

GOP candidate hates queers and is against gay marriage. Film at 11.

MSNBC.com
MANCHESTER, N.H. — When Mitt Romney sat down next to a patron wearing a Vietnam veteran's cap, Romney wanted to ask him about his military service.
But 63-year-old Bob Garon wanted to talk about gays in the military — because he is a gay veteran.
Garon was sitting in a booth across from his husband, Bob Lemire, at Chez Vachon, a must-stop diner for politicians looking for votes in the New Hampshire primary.
Garon and Lemire eat there nearly every morning. The owners call them "The Bobs."
Surrounded by a crush of TV cameras, Romney asked Garon about his tour in Vietnam. But Garon asked if Romney would support efforts to repeal the New Hampshire law that legalized gay marriage in the state and allowed him and Lemire to marry.
Romney said he supported the repeal because marriage is between a man and a woman.
"OK, that means if you were in the White House, you would not support any form of legislation that would change that so a serviceman would be entitled to any benefits like a man and a woman?" Garon asked. "A veteran and a spouse would not be entitled to any burial benefits, or medical benefits, or anything that the serviceman has devoted his time and effort to his country, and you just don't support equality in terms of same-sex marriage?"
When a veteran dies, his or her spouse is often entitled to certain benefits, including possibly being interred next to their spouse in a military cemetery.
"I believe that marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman," Romney responded. "The Defense of Marriage Act that exists in Washington today defines benefits, whether for veterans or non-veterans as between married spouses and for me that's a man and a woman. We apparently disagree on that."
An aide tried to remove Romney from the situation, claiming the candidate had another interview with Fox News Channel.
It was the kind of unscripted encounter Romney has tried to avoid on the campaign trail, preferring instead to be surrounded by supporters or to make campaign stops without the media trailing him. He stopped at two New Hampshire establishments on Sunday to meet voters, but didn't tell reporters he was going.
Romney says he'll do more unscripted events in the next few weeks. Like them or not, he'll have to: the Iowa caucuses are about three weeks away, on Jan. 3, and the New Hampshire primary follows a week later on Jan. 10.
After Romney's aide tried to get him out of what turned into awkward diner conversation, Garon said: "Oh, I guess the question was too hot."
"No, I gave you the answer," Romney responded, saying Garon had asked for a yes-or-no answer.
Garon wished him good luck and Romney moved on.
Reporters asked Garon to explain why he had questioned Romney so intently.
"Because I'm gay, all right?" Garon said. "And I happen to love a man just like you probably love your wife. Alright? And I think that he or she or whatever are entitled to the same rights that I have. I fought for my country, I did my thing, and I think that my spouse should be entitled to the same entitlements as if I was married to a woman. What the hell is the difference?"
I salute you, Mr. Garon. And shame on you, Mitty, for once again proving that you and your disgusting gaggle of gay-bashing Republitards (with exceptions) would openly, willingly and maliciously discriminate against the LGBT community and have them treated like second-class citizens.
Last edited by Dalton on 2011-12-13 10:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Thread title modified to Serafina's suggestion.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

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Same ol GOP....

and unlike other conservative parties, it does not look like the youth will eventually cause this to fall to the wayside due to the issue becoming moot.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

Post by Themightytom »

Nice job Bob. MITT? What the fuck man, you couldn't come up with anything better than telling a vet his spouse shouldn't get benefits?

You know what, fuck the Republicans, in the primary, I'll vote for Gingrich so that they tank the election, I'm done taking this seriously :wtf:

I always try to vote a solid candidate [least ideologically extreme] to challenge the incumbent into really committing to a solid second term but what the hell's the point of it :roll:

I voted for Kerry because I thought his measured intellectual responses woudl give Bush pause, and... nope, Bush plowed into one debacle after another faster than before. If I vote Romney, his wishy washyness will just encourage Obama to ineffectually pander to Republicans HIS second term.

I vote Gingrich, it's all on the table, Obama will curb stomp him in the election, and maybe be empowered enough to pursue his objectives.

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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

Post by D.Turtle »

Vote for Huntsman. At least he is a sane Republican.

Not that he will win, but hey, every vote he gets is a vote for sanity.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

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I vote Gingrich, it's all on the table, Obama will curb stomp him in the election, and maybe be empowered enough to pursue his objectives.
*shifty eyes*

You mean like expanding on the illegal bush-era surveillance, torture, and secret prison regime?
Or do you mean letting the SCOTUS lurch even further to the right?
Maybe you could mean giveaways to health insurance companies and massive payouts to banks at taxpayer expense?
Oh, I KNOW! You mean toothless consumer protection and pointedly NOT regulating the parts of the financial sector that lead to the economic collapse, while picking economic advisers who are responsible for said collapse?

Saying "Obama will stop being a near complete disappointment, grow a spine, lay down unconstitutional powers, and put forth a sane and rational agenda which does not perform fellatio on his mega-rich paymasters in his second term if we just pick insane opposition to create a landslide election in his favor" is so god damn naive, I do not even known where to begin.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

Post by Darth Yan »

IT's more like Obama is better than Gingrich. And in second term he will have more freedom to do what he wants since he doesn't need to fear reelection.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

Post by Lonestar »

Destructionator XIII wrote:Look at the bright side: he didn't lie to the man's face when asked a question.
He also didn't actually "scamper away", which is what the Title implied. One of his handles got him to leave, but he wasn't like Bachman who literally takes off in the opposite direction screaming when encountering THE GAYS.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

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Alyrium Denryle wrote:
I vote Gingrich, it's all on the table, Obama will curb stomp him in the election, and maybe be empowered enough to pursue his objectives.
*shifty eyes*

You mean like expanding on the illegal bush-era surveillance, torture, and secret prison regime?
Or do you mean letting the SCOTUS lurch even further to the right?
Maybe you could mean giveaways to health insurance companies and massive payouts to banks at taxpayer expense?
Oh, I KNOW! You mean toothless consumer protection and pointedly NOT regulating the parts of the financial sector that lead to the economic collapse, while picking economic advisers who are responsible for said collapse?

Saying "Obama will stop being a near complete disappointment, grow a spine, lay down unconstitutional powers, and put forth a sane and rational agenda which does not perform fellatio on his mega-rich paymasters in his second term if we just pick insane opposition to create a landslide election in his favor" is so god damn naive, I do not even known where to begin.

Wow are you broken Alyrium? Circle back on the context there, and try to get past concrete operational thinking, a lot of what I prefaced with was in the same tone as what you said, that was the hard to infer brainbuster where I compared Bush's first term facist conservatism, with Obama's first term ineffectual pandering.

Did I somehow present a bottomless enthusiasm, felt for Kerry's chances for victory or does perhaps my tone of "Eh fuck it, maybe he'll slow Bush down and think" not translate here. None of the candidates presented will do anything other than force the President into a year long series of debates over public policy that might influence their second term. If that is somehow interpreted by you as some kind of overnight personality shift, well put down your copy of A Christmas Carol, that's not the story I was writing.

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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

Post by Dalton »

Lonestar wrote:
Destructionator XIII wrote:Look at the bright side: he didn't lie to the man's face when asked a question.
He also didn't actually "scamper away", which is what the Title implied. One of his handles got him to leave, but he wasn't like Bachman who literally takes off in the opposite direction screaming when encountering THE GAYS.
Meh, it's my own bias against Romney getting in the way there.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

Post by Lord Zentei »

Themightytom wrote:Nice job Bob. MITT? What the fuck man, you couldn't come up with anything better than telling a vet his spouse shouldn't get benefits?

You know what, fuck the Republicans, in the primary, I'll vote for Gingrich so that they tank the election, I'm done taking this seriously :wtf:
This kind of bad strategy can backfire all too easily. Now just suppose that Gingrich does manage to get the nomination as a result of this kind of attitude among his opponents, and then proceeds to win the election against expectations (possibly due to a downswing in the economy, for example). What are you going to do then? This little episode is certainly not justification for risking that.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

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The thread title should probably be "Mitt Romney Totally Honest to Gay Veteran About Own Bigotry".
Because that's apparently what he was. Oh you can say that he was not able to give any justification for his statement, that he was unable to give more than just "because i say so", but he certainly was honest and he didn't run away.
Doesn't make him any less disgusting though.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

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Darth Yan wrote:IT's more like Obama is better than Gingrich. And in second term he will have more freedom to do what he wants since he doesn't need to fear reelection.
You assume that what he wants is anything short of "WTF, Cheney pt II"

The CIA answers directly to the president, and no authorization or permission from congress is needed for him to issue orders to stop the use of torture, torture by proxy, or illegal rendition.

He has not done so. Torture continues under his administration.

So... what exactly makes you think he will end a human rights abomination in his second term? What, do you think not torturing US citizens will hurt his election chances?
If that is somehow interpreted by you as some kind of overnight personality shift, well put down your copy of A Christmas Carol, that's not the story I was writing.
Did you miss the part where I was talking about Obama? Your argument presupposes that curb-stomping Gingrich and being liberated in his second term will accomplish anything good. It wont. Why? Because Obama is a torture-happy plutocrat, no different than Bush except in the rhetoric and stances on social issues, that even the gay man will say, are inconsequential compared to the global fucking catastrophe of toothless and fully captured regulatory agencies, torture, secret prisons, overall gutting of human rights, and massive "no questions asked" bailout packages to banks.

Of all of those, congress only need be involved with the bailouts. The rest, pfft. The Executive Branch assumes direct control. So an obstructionist congress cannot be blamed

You know what else behaves this way? Assuming that the person will change if only X happens? Yeah. Abuse victims. American liberals are suffering from a case of electoral stockholm syndrome.

With candidates like the GOP and Obama, I feel like I am being offered the choice between cake or death, but they are out of cake, leaving me with death. No thanks. I will take the chicken. Tastes of people.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

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Serafina wrote:The thread title should probably be "Mitt Romney Totally Honest to Gay Veteran About Own Bigotry".
Because that's apparently what he was. Oh you can say that he was not able to give any justification for his statement, that he was unable to give more than just "because i say so", but he certainly was honest and he didn't run away.
Doesn't make him any less disgusting though.


Unlike most of the GOP bench(except maybe Huntsman) Romney has had serious elected positions that require him to interact with a diverse range of people, and is willing to compromise even if it conflicts with his personal beliefs. Gingrich, Perry, Bachman etc. all built their careers on being able to rely on a very specific group of people in order to get elected. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether or not this makes him the best of the bunch.

(Hint: Probably him or Huntsman. Newt is bad because of his overt catering to the fringe, but has personal actions that run counter to HUUURRR I HAET SCIENCE. So I'll call Newt "3rd worst option")
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

Post by General Mung Beans »

Or do you mean letting the SCOTUS lurch even further to the right?
Not satisfied with Kagan or Sotomayor?

As to the OP, well I've lost pretty much all respect for Romney at this point as evidenced by his mass flip-flops. Incidentally if Gingrich crashes and burns there's speculation Huntsman might be the next "Great Right Hope" (considering Paul is unacceptable due to foreign policy and Santorum is well Santorum).
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Re: Mitt Romney Totally Honest to Gay Veteran About Own Bigo

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Not satisfied with Kagan or Sotomayor?
Kagan? Compared to Stevens? No. That was a rightward shift, especially with her support for expanded executive power. Sotomayor was a neutral move.
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Re: Mitt Romney Scampers Away From Gay Veteran

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Alyrium Denryle wrote:
If that is somehow interpreted by you as some kind of overnight personality shift, well put down your copy of A Christmas Carol, that's not the story I was writing.
Did you miss the part where I was talking about Obama?
Um, no? I didn't? My point was that I never claimed anywhere that voting for Gingrich in the primary would complete change Obama's policy, it would just influence it positively by forcing him to argue his position publicly.
Your argument presupposes that curb-stomping Gingrich and being liberated in his second term will accomplish anything good. It wont. Why? Because Obama is a torture-happy plutocrat, no different than Bush except in the rhetoric and stances on social issues, that even the gay man will say, are inconsequential compared to the global fucking catastrophe of toothless and fully captured regulatory agencies, torture, secret prisons, overall gutting of human rights, and massive "no questions asked" bailout packages to banks.
Your argument is that he is an unchanging card board cut out? Even Bush shifted positions over time, just because it was so far to the right you can't see it from where you're sitting doesn't mean it didn't happen.
You know what else behaves this way? Assuming that the person will change if only X happens? Yeah. Abuse victims. American liberals are suffering from a case of electoral stockholm syndrome.
You know else else does? Judges, mental health counselors, teachers, dog trainers, you are a complete idiot, I don't even know how to change that.
With candidates like the GOP and Obama, I feel like I am being offered the choice between cake or death, but they are out of cake, leaving me with death. No thanks. I will take the chicken. Tastes of people.
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Re: Mitt Romney Totally Honest to Gay Veteran About Own Bigo

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Your argument is that he is an unchanging card board cut out? Even Bush shifted positions over time, just because it was so far to the right you can't see it from where you're sitting doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Wait, hold the god damn phone. I am aware Bush changed positions. All of Obama's as compared to his campaign, have been rightward. Hell, he even started political hageling over healthcare from a position farther to the right than his campaign positions. What evidence do you have that he might shift left in his second term? For your argument to make sense, you have to assume that his policies will pull a 180 degree turn. That does not make any sense. You have to assume that he will go from:

Continuing Bush Era Human Rights Violations including torture, which do not require congress to change and thus are a good metric of his true positions on such matters, to Discontinuing them

That he will get rid of his right-wing economic advisers, Treasury Secretary etc

That he will back down on assertions of Executive Priviledge and Expanded Executive Authority, despite appointing one supreme court justice who is expressly in favor of such things

I could go on. What evidence do you have that he will do such things?

Um, no? I didn't? My point was that I never claimed anywhere that voting for Gingrich in the primary would complete change Obama's policy, it would just influence it positively by forcing him to argue his position publicly.
Yes. Because obviously, campaign promises and public argument correlate so positively with his actual policies on economics and human rights. :roll:

We already went down that road in his first term. What makes you think it will be any different in his second? He talked a good game in his first campaign. The public option, helping out the middle and working class, ending torture. The only thing he has actually done that was on that list, was repealing DADT, and I can view that from a really cynical perspective if you want me to...
You know else else does? Judges, mental health counselors, teachers, dog trainers, you are a complete idiot, I don't even know how to change that.
Except when they believe those things, there is an actual feasible mechanism which will cause the change. Judges try rehabilitation programs or actual punishment, mental health counselors try to fix an actual defect, teachers inspire and educate, dog trainers give the animal snacks and use operant and pavlovian conditioning. There is empirical evidence that these mechanisms will cause people to change.

There is no such mechanism here that has any empirical evidence but your gut feeling, and every data point we have suggests Obama is bought and paid for, in addition to being anything but a champion of human rights.
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Re: Mitt Romney Totally Honest to Gay Veteran About Own Bigo

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Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Wait, hold the god damn phone. I am aware Bush changed positions. All of Obama's as compared to his campaign, have been rightward. Hell, he even started political hageling over healthcare from a position farther to the right than his campaign positions. What evidence do you have that he might shift left in his second term? For your argument to make sense, you have to assume that his policies will pull a 180 degree turn.


No I don't you idiot, try reading through my posts or stop wasting my time.
Themightytom wrote: My point was that I never claimed anywhere that voting for Gingrich in the primary would complete change Obama's policy, it would just influence it positively by forcing him to argue his position publicly.
Do you have any awareness of how plainly you are wearing cognitive dissonance? You can't read my whole post through once before trying to rebut the arguments you imagine me to be making.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:That does not make any sense. You have to assume that he will go from:
Continuing Bush Era Human Rights Violations including torture, which do not require congress to change and thus are a good metric of his true positions on such matters, to Discontinuing them

That he will get rid of his right-wing economic advisers, Treasury Secretary etc


No I just plain don't have to assume anything. You are a complete moron with the demonstrated inability to grasp the subtle difference between a 180 degree change of opinion/ Dickensien epiphany, and a shift in policy. I don't give a shit about whatever list of grievances you personally jerk off to, stop trying to pretend I have to adopt anything resembling you're ridiculous position.


Alyrium Denryle wrote:I could go on. What evidence do you have that he will do such things?
You don't have the critical reasoning to differentiate between your own straw men do you. I'm not going to prove your false dichotomy idiot. I never made the claims that are dancing around in your idiot brain.




Alyrium Denryle wrote: and I can view that from a really cynical perspective if you want me to...
No I want you to shut up and stop trolling your personal agenda... :roll:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Except when they believe those things, there is an actual feasible mechanism which will cause the change. Judges try rehabilitation programs or actual punishment, mental health counselors try to fix an actual defect, teachers inspire and educate, dog trainers give the animal snacks and use operant and pavlovian conditioning. There is empirical evidence that these mechanisms will cause people to change.
You know how I know you're full of shit? You just said dog trainers give animals snacks because there is empirical evidence that these mechanisms will cause people to change. You just said mental health counselors try to fix an "actual defect." Your hopelessly ignorant. Did you even remember you were supposed to be defending your own association that
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Yeah. Abuse victims. American liberals are suffering from a case of electoral stockholm syndrome.
and by the way the title of the syndrome your blithely throwing around like an asshole, does not meet the pathology you used to describe it. If you're going to make light of abuse victims OR hostages, to make whatever point you're trying to cobble together, try to differentiate between the two. OR stay consistent with the nomenclature use in psychology. Or shut up...

Alyrium Denryle wrote:every data point we have suggests Obama is bought and paid for, in addition to being anything but a champion of human rights.
[/quote]

You have no idea what a data point is! Do you just listen to other people talk and imitate them?? :lol:

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