My Little Pony

[lordofchange13]

Here's a thought that I had before going to sleep:

Horseshoes. Where are they?

We see them used in Fall Weather Friends (IIRC the title) when AJ and RD play a game. But otherwise, they are mostly absent. To be a bit evil, I am even expecting them being shown either with joking the whole "women go crazy for shoes" gag or as a variation of the "going to the dentist" jokes (I imagine that for a pony, having horseshoed can be like that).

The episode your thinking of, i think is called "fall weather friends". They have all ready shown pony's with human boots for the winter episodes, maybe they are what shoes were back in ancient Equestria.

Yet, horseshoes are developed for horses because they a, run a lot on artificial surfaces that are much harder than natural surfaces thus wear out their hooves more and b, are put on horses and animals that are either ridden or used for other hard work (even packing them with load means having them carry more than their own weight). Would this apply to ponies?

EARTH PONIES!!

[Zixinus]

To elaborate on the horseshoe idea: what if there are different horseshoes for different purposes?

Rainbow Dash: The Wonder-Cloudwalker(tm)
This highly-engineered beauty is the must of every professionalű flier from here to Cloudsdale. Made mostly out of titanium and various alloys, these horseshoes make your regular ones look like mistakes. Light yet extremely strong, it can serve both on land or in air equally well. It cannot rust, expansion is minimal (thus preventing the dreaded hoove-squeezing) and has rounded edges to allow the flier to pierce the air with minimal aerodynamic resistance. The light alloys themselves are made to minimize weight and thus allow the flier to focus their strength on their performance rather than lug dead weight.
Developed for, used and approved by the Wonderbolts themselves! Contact your local farrier regarding ordering information or even visit our office in Cloudsdale (Cloud 10, Anvil street 5)!

Make descriptions of your own.

The episode your thinking of, i think is called "fall weather friends". They have all ready shown pony's with human boots for the winter episodes, maybe they are what shoes were back in ancient Equestria.

Yeah, now that I think about it, boots are weird. Unles they go at least knee-high, they don't actually prevent that much heat loss (where are the most mayor blood vessels for a pony/horse?).
Scarves and hats are also a bit curious. I'd think that the best areas are probably the flanks and the stomach/chest that need to be covered to prevent the most heat loss. We don't see that often (and usually with dresses). The most likely explanation is that ponies aren't actually that sensitive to cold and have winter clothes more out of practicality (boots for not slipping on ice surfaces) and tradition.
That, and the winter clothes by the show's artists are made to make the ponies cute, not to optimally prevent heat loss.

Also, here's another question: what are the boots made out of? Traditionally (and to this day) boots are made out of leather. I can't really think of another material that has the toughness, durability yet flexibility of leather that isn't artificial (ie, various plastics).

I doubt that the ponies kill other animals for their hides. So what are the boots made of?

EARTH PONIES!!

I... am not sure how that answers anything I've said.

[lordofchange13]

Also, here's another question: what are the boots made out of? Traditionally (and to this day) boots are made out of leather. I can't really think of another material that has the toughness, durability yet flexibility of leather that isn't artificial (ie, various plastics).

I doubt that the ponies kill other animals for their hides. So what are the boots made of?

There clothing is probably made of magically reconfigured plastic stuff. i really dought they kill any animals just to make unessary boots,hates, and stuff. though animals do die of old age perhaps that's how they can make them. it's not like there's a really large pony population. That's the in universe answer, the out of universe answer would be: human looking clothing sell'd better.

EARTH PONIES!!

I... am not sure how that answers anything I've said.

Earth ponies are the one's that do all the heavy lifting and labor.

[open_sketchbook]

In my "Commissar Courage" fanfic, I substituted leather with presstoff, a sort of layered and laminated paper used as a leather substitute by the Germans in WW2.

[Revy]

Spike was not a chaotic dragon he was following a very simple drive: Steal everything he can find.

And you don't consider that chaotic? Especially when he demolishes half of Ponyville in the process?

From what has been seen in the show the Elements have never vanquished anything.

So when Perseus defeated the Kraken by turning it to stone using Medusa's head ... he didn't 'vanquish' it? (Yes I know that's the movie version of the tale, the point remains, he defeated the monster by turning it to stone, ergo he vanquished it).

Celestia is her self a demigod,

If you class Celestia as a demigod then I'd have to upgrade Discord's status to full fledged god. He outclasses her that much. She was so out of her league with regards to Discord that she never even attempts to fight him or help the mane 6 against him. Her only method of fighting him (both past and present) was the Elements of Harmony. Without them she basically sits on her rump and waits for Twilight and her friends to get the Elements, because there's nothing else she can do. Discord is that powerful. The most impressive feat of power we witness Celestia pull off is raising the sun. Discord does that repeatedly every minute without any visible effort, in addition to completely screwing over reality whilst taunting people. The power gulf between them is like the one between the Goa'uld and the Ori.

and she didn't put them in a safe she put them in a vault of magic shielded with magic and locked with magic. But that's not really the point, was just saying that the vault was and could be opened by more then just Celestia herself.

Again, someone like Discord is clearly an exception to all of the rules. As I pointed out myself, if a vault is locked by a security code that only one person alive knows, you can hardly fault the vault design for failing to take into account a telepath mentally stealing the code, or an omniscient entity with means of accessing information beyond our comprehension. If I recall, there was a thread recently in the Star Trek section of the boards listing engineering failures in Trek. The OP included instances where god-like aliens were able to screw around with the ship. Other posters pointed out that it is really unfair to blame Starfleet engineers for not proofing their technology against nigh omnipotent beings.

Bottom line, security of any sort can hardly be expected to stand up to someone with reality warping powers given that pretty much nothing can stand up to such things. It's like saying "Mr X is the best chessmaster in the world and can beat anyone at chess" and then complaining "But Mr Y can beat him because he has precognition and can see in advance every move he's going to make". Well yes, but Mr Y's advantage is so absurdly unfair that it's obvious cheating, and Mr X losing to him at chess is hardly a negative comment on his chess playing abilities.

As to the horseshoes ... don't Celestia and Luna wear them?

[lordofchange13]

And you don't consider that chaotic? Especially when he demolishes half of Ponyville in the process?

No Spike is chaotic, but naturally chaotic. The Elements have ever only been used against Discord another Natural chaotic. I am not sure if the element's couldn't defeat him because he is a super being, or if that was their ethical weakness. Keeping with the heart of the show, i do not believe that the Elements of Harmony would or could be used to kill anything. The best it can do is lock away Spikes greed drive or put him in some form of magic prison.

So when Perseus defeated the Kraken by turning it to stone using Medusa's head ... he didn't 'vanquish' it? (Yes I know that's the movie version of the tale, the point remains, he defeated the monster by turning it to stone, ergo he vanquished it).

The main diffidence being that Medusa could never be turned back to flesh, Discord could and did.

If you class Celestia as a demigod then I'd have to upgrade Discord's status to full fledged god. He outclasses her that much. She was so out of her league with regards to Discord that she never even attempts to fight him or help the mane 6 against him. Her only method of fighting him (both past and present) was the Elements of Harmony. Without them she basically sits on her rump and waits for Twilight and her friends to get the Elements, because there's nothing else she can do. Discord is that powerful. The most impressive feat of power we witness Celestia pull off is raising the sun. Discord does that repeatedly every minute without any visible effort, in addition to completely screwing over reality whilst taunting people. The power gulf between them is like the one between the Goa'uld and the Ori.

That I will concede to you, though it's more like the Asgard and the Ori.

Bottom line, security of any sort can hardly be expected to stand up to someone with reality warping powers given that pretty much nothing can stand up to such things. It's like saying "Mr X is the best chessmaster in the world and can beat anyone at chess" and then complaining "But Mr Y can beat him because he has precognition and can see in advance every move he's going to make". Well yes, but Mr Y's advantage is so absurdly unfair that it's obvious cheating, and Mr X losing to him at chess is hardly a negative comment on his chess playing abilities.

As I Said in my last post: You wrote that Celestia was the only one who could open the vault. Which I found to be incorrect, thus bringing up Discord.

As to the horseshoes ... don't Celestia and Luna wear them?

They seem to be for along the lines of glass slippers.

[Bright]

She was so out of her league with regards to Discord that she never even attempts to fight him or help the mane 6 against him. Her only method of fighting him (both past and present) was the Elements of Harmony. Without them she basically sits on her rump and waits for Twilight and her friends to get the Elements, because there's nothing else she can do.

Without regards to the power difference between them, I think that sells Celestia a bit short. She did play a part in Discord's defeat - she essentially outsmarted him by figuring out/noticing that he was trying to corrupt her champions and completely foiled that plan with the simple maneuver of sending Twilight back her friendship reports.

[Revy]

No Spike is chaotic, but naturally chaotic.

So? I imagine if you pointed the Elements at Rarity's inspiration room they'd tidy it up as well. They bring harmony, regardless of whether or not the chaos is natural or unnatural.

The Elements have ever only been used against Discord another Natural chaotic. I am not sure if the element's couldn't defeat him because he is a super being,

Am I the only person who would classify 'Being turned to stone' as defeat? Really? When Batman beats the Joker and has him locked away, I'd classify that as a 'defeat' even though he hasn't 'killed' the Joker.

The best it can do is lock away Spikes greed drive or put him in some form of magic prison.

The best it can do is revert him to his normal state of being, ie a harmless little baby dragon.

The main diffidence being that Medusa could never be turned back to flesh, Discord could and did.

... what? This makes no sense. Medusa wasn't the one turned to stone, the kraken was (or anyone Medusa looked at). And for all we know a person turned to stone by Medusa might be restored to flesh by the Olympians if they felt like doing so.

And that doesn't even relate to my point! My point was Petrification = Vanquished/Defeated. If I petrify every enemy I'm fighting in a Final Fantasy game, the battle ends because my opponents are stone and can't do anything else. I have therefore won the battle. An enemy turned to stone is no longer a problem.

Yes, Discord escaped, but just because a defeat is not 100% eternally permanent does not mean it isn't a defeat all the same.

As I Said in my last post: You wrote that Celestia was the only one who could open the vault. Which I found to be incorrect, thus bringing up Discord.

Everypony already knows that Discord did that, I didn't think I needed to bring that up in the context of my point. I said that there was no point in the mane 6 going to get the Elements to help deal with Spike, because they were locked away in Canterlot Castle by a spell that Celestia herself says only she can break. Whilst we all know she was wrong, it's a fair bet none of the mane 6 can break the spell. Thus they would need Celestia to actually get the Elements, and if they go to all that trouble they might as well just tell Celestia 'Spike's on a rampage, can you help fix that?' thus making the use of the Elements a moot point in this particular instance.

Yes I know Discord proved Celestia wrong and stole the Elements, but in the context of the discussion (using the Elements to deal with giant!Spike) that fact is of no relevance or use to the main cast. The point was that they would need Celestia's help to even get the Elements. Whilst Discord could theoretically get them as well, that fact is of no practical help or use. Discord is stoned as of the time of that episode, and wouldn't help them even if he weren't. For all practical intents and purposes, Celestia is their only means of getting the Elements.

Without regards to the power difference between them, I think that sells Celestia a bit short. She did play a part in Discord's defeat - she essentially outsmarted him by figuring out/noticing that he was trying to corrupt her champions and completely foiled that plan with the simple maneuver of sending Twilight back her friendship reports.

Yes I know, I was speaking purely in terms of raw power, not intelligence or skill or anything else. And even though Celestia had a hand in his defeat, her actions did not involve using her magic directly against him. We never see her even try and fight Discord directly, implying that she knows not to even bother, because he's far too powerful for her. A less powerful person can defeat someone more powerful through skill, luck or whatever. That she didn't even try means that he was so far out of her league in terms of power that such an attempt would be futile.

[lordofchange13]

It is obvious my point only makes sense from my point of view, i will leave it to you.

[Crazedwraith]

NOt saying there not defeated. but vanquishing means to kill, and i do not think that the Elements can be used to kill.

No it doesn't. Vanquish is synonymous with defeat.

edit: hmm. you seem to have edited out what I was responding to..?

[lordofchange13]

NOt saying there not defeated. but vanquishing means to kill, and i do not think that the Elements can be used to kill.

No it doesn't. Vanquish is synonymous with defeat.

edit: hmm. you seem to have edited out what I was responding to..?

Yes, I realized that my reasoning was flawed. Had to pull out my dictionary, up until now i have always used vanquished as a fancy synonym for killed, my mistake.

[Zixinus]

In my "Commissar Courage" fanfic, I substituted leather with presstoff, a sort of layered and laminated paper used as a leather substitute by the Germans in WW2.

That makes sense. We see ponies use wood plentifully, as well as paper (although Twiligh likes to use scrolls for some reason).

A quick check at the wiki says that Presstoof wasn't very good for footwear, but I wouldn't be surprised if the ponies found a way to fix that. According to wiki, leather replacements can be made out of Cork oak as well (and a bunch of other stuff, mostly using modern chemistry).

As to the horseshoes ... don't Celestia and Luna wear them?

Yes, but they are more like regular shoes (they go around their hooves, although who knows how they keep retention) than what we'd call "horseshoes" (stuff you nail or glue to the horse's/pony's hoof).

[lordofchange13]

As to the horseshoes ... don't Celestia and Luna wear them?

Yes, but they are more like regular shoes (they go around their hooves, although who knows how they keep retention) than what we'd call "horseshoes" (stuff you nail or glue to the horse's/pony's hoof).

Not sure if this really means anything, but Luna from the moment the was transformed in episode 2 had those things on her hooves already.

[Bright]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. It looks like we're getting a third winged unicorn character.

The mysterious "Princess Cadence" and "Shining Armor" seem in Hasbro ads have apparently confirmed to be real characters that will appear in the show, probably in season 3. At this point, my excitement over-rides my concern, but I do hope they handle this without compromising Celestia's and Luna's role in the series' mythology.

[evilsoup]

Here's the source on that, by the way.

Man, depending on how they handle the winged unicorns (are they a separate race, or genetic freaks like the x-men? Or are they really powerful unicorns who gave themselves wings?) it could serious implications for my fanfic. Of course series 3 will probably be over before I get to that point..

EDIT: also, this pretty much confirms a third series, yay!

[Bright]

A third season was already confirmed; the issue with it is that only 13 episodes were ordered for it.

[Zixinus]

What I am afraid of, is that with the show's growing popularity, will Habsro put more pressure on the show to be more conservative (artistically). The show broke several moulds in what is expected from a children's cartoon show, there is probably a real desire to "play it safe" now (meaning: make is suck).

I also wonder how the new-found popularity of the show among adults effects thabsro's sales.

[evilsoup]

The show's hugely popular, why would they change the formula? By all accounts, so far they've given the creative staff quite a lot of artistic freedom.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that Hasbro has been having better toys sales since the series began; but how much of that is down to the 'brony' demographic and how much is down to the target audience would be hard to know, I think. I definitely remember something about some bronies buying Hasbro shares and going to a shareholder conference so they could stand up and demand better-quality/more 'show accurate' toys.

[lordofchange13]

I also wonder how the new-found popularity of the show among adults effects thabsro's sales.

Most Brony's i know in real life, have or are planing to buy MLP stuff fro Christmas. There are plenty of super big fan's out there to go and buy every pony on toy store shelves. Hasbro's sales must have increased to some degree.

[lordofchange13]

A third season was already confirmed; the issue with it is that only 13 episodes were ordered for it.

Do you got a source on there only being 13 episodes? If true, what the fuck is going on.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

The show's hugely popular, why would they change the formula?

Because the more people who watch the show, the more likely it is that some moron will see something that offends them and reach for a lawyer.

[Zixinus]

They would change the formula because they don't want to ruin the goose that laid the golden egg.

They took many big risks (for them) with the show because they were desperate with reviving their toy-line.

Now that the show is worth a lot, they don't want something that will ruin it's reputation or cause outrage or boycuts.

Or in more simpler terms, imagine a Habsro board meeting where all members are in utter silence while a TV shows a politician talking about their show with the words "think of the children!".

[evilsoup]

I can't think of a single thing on the show itself that could cause offence... well, potentially Over a Barrel reducing one of history's nastier genocides to a pie fight, and the whole depiction of Zecora - but those could potentially cause offence to the natives and african-american groups respectively, and I don't think either of those would really be enough to worry Hasbro enough to change the show fundamentally.

I mean, the 'think of the children dipshits are why we'd never get homosexual stuff, like what was being discussed in the testing thread; but as the show stands right now I can't think of anything that would set those guys off. The fact of the 'brony' fanbase might creep them out, but that's been reported on Wired, Fox News and the front page of the Wall Street Journal, and there are no signs that Hasbro needs to change anything.

[Zixinus]

Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that the worry that it will isn't there or that it can't happen.

The point isn't some outrageous thing happening on the show, but that with the increased importance of the show, the more attention it will have. Why it would be under a tighter leash isn't just because of a potential fear from it offending someone, but it can be from corporate culture (the new becomes the established, rigid concept) or someone higher on the board having very bad ideas (like, let's hire completely inappropriate talent for the next season).

Common sense tells that there is no reason that it should happen, but stupidity can overrides common sense any time.

[evilsoup]

I think you're overestimating the show's importance. Hasbro clearly sees it primarily as an advertisement for their ghastly toys, which is why I think they will leave it alone and let the creative team get on with their stuff - so long as toy sales stay healthy.

So if you want to support the show, go out and buy those toys.