Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens veto.

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Shroom Man 777
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Thanas wrote:This is the ultimate victory of bin Laden and the US Congress is giving it to him.
I think, intentionally or not, Osama turned himself into the ultimate suicide bomber. Those airplanes were just the primer. The real semtex was America itself. He had no idea what his act would do, and how far its blast radius would go, but goddamn did he do real damage.

Oh boy, when goddamn libertopians sound like the sanest bunch in your fucked up government, you know it's bad. Goddamn libertopians are the last line of defense for American civil liberties? Who knew! :lol:
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by Lord Zentei »

Say what you will about libertarians, but they really do make a big deal about protecting individual rights from government overreach. In fact, that is their main policy issue. :)

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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Those hands that have been so bloodied after decades of disemboweling and mutilating the peoples of other nations will finally embrace their own countrymen. An ultimate act of patriotism.
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by Lord Zentei »

If you mean what I think you mean: libertarians oppose wars abroad on principle. Ron Paul, for one wants America to pull out of the War on Terror immediately as well as its overseas military bases.

Republicans paying lip service to libertarian principles are another matter, of course. But such people are as much "libertarian" as many Democrats are "liberal". In other words, not.
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

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No, he doesn't mean that. He means that after decades of breaking laws in foreign nations and not giving a crap about those citizens of other nations, the USA is now not giving a crap about its own citizens. And no surprise, the "patriots" are once more leading the charge.
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Shroom Man 777
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Oh, I understand the dichotomy between the "don't give a fuck about taxes, big government, and interfering with the rest of the world that now hates our fucking guts" libertarians with broken clock principles that may be right a few times a day and the, uh, neo-cons like Thick Chinny Dick Cheney who are ultimate superfuckers and other unscrupulous foolish human shits.

Thanas got it. I guess, America might finally treat the people of other countries equally with its own people, am i rite?
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shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Minor Update:



Obama will sign the National Defense Authorization Act, because his administration requested the abominable section be added in the first place.

So much for the Tribune of Plebs.
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by VarrusTheEthical »

Oh look! A youtube clip that's taken out of context to serve as "proof", when in fact it proves nothing!

How about instead we look what what Senator Levin actually had to say earlier that same session. This is where he explains the changes that the Senate made to Section 1031 at the request of the President, which he states only gives the President power that already exists under the AUMF. He also explains that the Senate did not agree to remove the powers under section 1032, which would mandate permanent military custody of a suspected terrorist.

Now here's the Administration's explanation for what it asked for in a in regards to section 1031 this statement on the same date as the senate session. (11/17/2011)
Section 1031 attempts to expressly codify the detention authority that exists under the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) (the “AUMF”). The authorities granted by the AUMF, including the detention authority, are essential to our ability to protect the American people from the threat posed by al-Qa'ida and its associated forces, and have enabled us to confront the full range of threats this country faces from those organizations and individuals. Because the authorities codified in this section already exist, the Administration does not believe codification is necessary and poses some risk. After a decade of settled jurisprudence on detention authority, Congress must be careful not to open a whole new series of legal questions that will distract from our efforts to protect the country. While the current language minimizes many of those risks, future legislative action must ensure that the codification in statute of express military detention authority does not carry unintended consequences that could compromise our ability to protect the American people.
And here the Administration's ongoing objection in regard to mandating military custody of terrorists, also in said statment.
Rather than fix the fundamental defects of section 1032 or remove it entirely, as the Administration and the chairs of several congressional committees with jurisdiction over these matters have advocated, the revised text merely directs the President to develop procedures to ensure the myriad problems that would result from such a requirement do not come to fruition. Requiring the President to devise such procedures concedes the substantial risks created by mandating military custody, without providing an adequate solution. As a result, it is likely that implementing such procedures would inject significant confusion into counterterrorism operations.
Now maybe I'm missing something, but I see nothing in this that "proves" that the President is not going to veto the current Defense Authorization bill as it stands.
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by Yogi »

He's actually not going to veto it.
CNN wrote:Washington (CNN) -- The White House lifted a veto threat against a giant $662 billion defense authorization bill on Wednesday after legislators made changes in language involving detainees.
In particular, the legislators added language to make clear that nothing in the bill requiring military custody of al Qaeda suspects would interfere with the ability of civilian law enforcement to carry out terrorism investigations and interrogations in the United States.
A statement by White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said the changes mean that President Obama's advisers will not recommend a veto.
The House on Wednesday approved the bill, which now goes to the Senate.
At issue was the president's authority in deciding whether people detained in terrorism investigations would be held in military or civilian custody.
Sen. John McCain of Arizona, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the legislation includes a "national security waiver" that allows the president to transfer a suspect from military to civilian custody if he chooses.
The legislators also agreed on tough sanctions language for the Iranian Central Bank, aimed at punishing Iran for its nuclear program. The White House had expressed opposition to that provision as well, but it received broad support in Congress.
The measure "will put real additional pressure on the Iranians so they are going to pay a bigger and bigger price, if they continue to move towards nuclear weapons," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Michigan, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.
In addition, legislators agreed to tough new restrictions on Pakistan to ensure that country is not participating in the manufacture and transport of improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, the hidden bombs that have caused havoc for coalition forces in Afghanistan.
"We've had some shaky relations with Pakistan lately. We need them, and they need us," said Rep. Buck McKeon, R-California, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. "We have frozen some of the money that we will be sending to Pakistan until they offer more assurances, more help in this area of ... fertilizer and the things that go into making IEDs."
Emphasis mine.

Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but I seem to remember Obama was the one pushing for indefinite detention a few months after he was elected. This at least explains WHY he wanted to veto it.
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Re: Senate votes for military detention, Obama threatens vet

Post by PainRack »

Say.... do you think Malaysia can offer some advice regarding ISD and infinite detention to USA?

Well, considering the potential length of the war, I guess Singapore might be in a better position to offer advice.
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