Pizza Delivery Racism!

[MKSheppard]

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/acc ... acism+talk

Pizza delivery policy sparks racism talk
St. Petersburg Times; St. Petersburg, Fla.; Aug 18, 2002; ROBERT FARLEY;

TARPON SPRINGS -- Most people in the predominantly black Union Academy neighborhood of Tarpon Springs know about the robbery of the Pizza Hut driver in November.

They know because it soon meant they could not get a pizza delivered to their neighborhood after dark.

"I don't think it's fair," said Alicia Porter, a 25-year-old nursing student who lives in Union Academy. "There are bad people everywhere in the world. But they (the pizza companies) shouldn't bar everybody because of it."

It's inconvenient, she said, to have to drive to the store to pick up a pizza. And it's insulting, she said.

"We're black people who like pizza too," she said. "Our money is just like everyone else's."

Pizza Hut isn't the only pizza company that won't deliver to parts of Tarpon Springs due to safety concerns. The owner of the Domino's Pizza in Tarpon Springs said his company stopped delivering after dark to Mango Circle in 1995 after one of his drivers was robbed and severely beaten.

Former City Commissioner Glenn Davis has a different theory about why the pizza companies have chosen not to deliver to some neighborhoods.

"It's racism plain and simple," Davis said.

At a recent City Commission meeting, Davis challenged city leaders to stop doing any business with any pizza companies that won't deliver to certain areas. He also recommended the commissioners suspend the companies' right to do business in the city.

Mayor Frank DiDonato said he's not sure that's something the city can legally do, but he intends to write the pizza companies to request they meet with city officials to justify their policy.

"I don't think it's right people are being denied service because of where they live," DiDonato said.

Commissioner David Archie, a resident of Union Academy, said the pizza companies' policies unfairly stigmatize the neighborhood.

It is a controversy that has played out in communities all over the country, including several in Tampa Bay. It's even one that Tarpon Springs took on six years ago, Archie said. Then, he said, it was resolved when Pizza Hut agreed to reopen its delivery area.

Julie Hildebrand, a spokeswoman for the Dallas-based company, said Pizza Hut decided to stop nighttime deliveries to parts of Union Academy after the November robbery. In that incident, three teenagers stole $100 from a delivery man and hit him over the head. One of the three teens, who was holding a .38-caliber revolver, fired one shot. It appeared the gun was not aimed at the delivery man, who was not hit. Police arrested all three teens. Christopher Alexander Blanche, 18, the only adult, recently pleaded guilty to robbery and awaits sentencing.

In addition to that incident, Hildebrand said, drivers said they have been repeatedly harassed in the Union Academy area. As a result, the company decided not to deliver after dark to an area bounded by Martin Luther King Boulevard on the south, Lemon Street on the north, Pinellas Avenue on the west and S Disston Avenue on the east.

"We don't want to tighten our delivery area," she said, "but we have to consider the safety of our drivers. People need to feel safe in their job and that's up to us."

The policy has nothing to do with race, she said, noting that the company delivers everywhere during daylight hours. And after dark, people in the restricted delivery area are offered discounts if they pick up their orders at the store.

Archie said the boundaries Pizza Hut has drawn don't make any sense. The robbery occurred south of Martin Luther King Boulevard on Harrison Street. That's outside the area Hildebrand described.

"I can't see what they're basing their boundaries on, except from a race standpoint," he said.

Several churches in the neighborhood can't even get deliveries at night, he said.

"Something's wrong with that picture," he said.

Archie also thinks the company shouldn't blackball an entire neighborhood based on one ugly incident.

"That one incident means everyone else in the whole community is stigmatized as a robber," Archie said.

The robbery was committed by three teens, he said, and was uniformly condemned by the community.

"That's not to say that wasn't a serious incident, or that I don't value the safety of employees," Archie said. "But you also have to look at people's rights. I don't want to see any part of our community discriminated against. A lot of this is based on a perception that is not fair."

John Paulette, owner of the Tarpon Springs Domino's, said he has long been a proponent for opening up previously closed areas for delivery, often over the objections of his delivery people. Sometimes drivers don't like to go to poor areas where customers often don't tip as well, he said.

"I don't believe in that," said Paulette, 36. "I believe everyone is equal."

So when he bought the Tarpon Springs shop in 1995, he said, he reopened deliveries to Mango Circle, a residential area with just one way in and one way out.

Two weeks later, he said, a 62-year-old driver was severely beaten and robbed during a delivery on that street. The thieves took $20, beat him over the head with a stick and broke his nose and jaw, among other things. The robbers also stole his 89-year-old mother's rosary beads, Paulette said.

The man ended up on permanent disability, and the company is still paying for a $250,000 workers compensation settlement, he said.

"He got beaten up really bad and I felt really bad about it," Paulette said.

He quickly reinstituted the no-deliveries after dark rule for Mango Circle.

"It's the only place I don't serve after dark," he said.

It was a safety issue, period, he said. But his workers probably would have quit had he not done it, he said.

Still, he said, if the neighborhood has changed -- and Mayor DiDonato and Commissioner Archie say it has -- he'd be willing to sit down with residents and talk about opening that area back up.

But, he said, the safety of his drivers comes first.

"I tell my people, I don't care what neighborhood you go to, if you don't feel comfortable, don't go in," Paulette said.

Sometimes, customers are asked to turn lights on. If there's another driver available, he said, sometimes they'll send two people.

Davis, 48, said the pizza companies need to provide better justification for their policy, like crime statistics.

"If they can show me the facts, that it's a reoccuring thing, I'll shut up," Davis said. "No one should have to put their life on the line to deliver a pizza."

But if the policy is based on isolated incidents, that's not fair, he said.

"You've got thugs in every ethnic group," he said.

"The majority of people in the community are law abiding," he said. But because of the "stupidity" of a few teens, "everybody's being punished for it."

According to crime statistics provided by the Tarpon Springs Police Department, 45 of the 174 robberies that occurred in the city between 1995 and July of this year took place in Union Academy.

But neither Pizza Hut nor Domino's officials cited any crime statistics as a basis for their policies.

That's troubling, DiDonato said.

"I personally can't believe there is a problem there (in Union Academy)," he said. "I think we need to sit down and talk this thing out. I want to make sure they are being fair and equitable, and not being arbitrary in drawing lines.

"If one part of Tarpon Springs is served, then all parts of Tarpon Spring ought to be served," DiDonato said.

Unless or until a new agreement is reached, Laverne Mackey of Union Academy will have to continue picking up her pizzas at a friend's house a few blocks away, which is out of the no-delivery area.

"I don't like that," she said. "It's wrong."

-- Robert Farley can be reached at (727) 445-4185 or farley@sptimes.com.

[Faram]

Blah spoiled people.

Here in Sweden to get a pizza delivered you have to:

1. Order for a minimum of 200skr ~$20
2. Wait 1h for delivery
3. Delivery service only between 08.00 – 20.00 Weekdays only
4. Only in the city area no suburbs

To get a pizza on the evening I just have to walk/drive whatever to the pizza restaurant. Pay 19skr ~$2 carry the hot pizza home.

--edit--
Fixed typo

[Lusankya]

Was there a point to that Sheppard?

And if you want thinly disguised racism, it doesn't beat what the Adelaide city council did.

In the past, a group of aborigines used to camp in the city's central square. Earlier this year, a dry zone was introduced in the city. The aborigines promptly disappeared into the park lands.

Strange thing is, though, students in the University, which is in the city, were still allowed to consume alcohol outside. As were diners using outdoor seats in restaurants in the city.

Now, the claim was to decrease crime in the city, but everyone knows it was just done to get rid of the boongs.

[Lusankya]

Not that anyone really disapproved. If they had been white people, then they would have been forced to leave ages ago. But because they aren't white, we must use subtler methods to get them out of the way. (and to stop them from being an eyesore.)

[MKSheppard]

Was there a point to that Sheppard?

Yeah, that there are some neighborhoods I won't even go NEAR unless
I have an AK-47 and 10 loaded 30-round magazines.

[Lusankya]

Oh. so it wasn't a comment on racism?

[MKSheppard]

Oh. so it wasn't a comment on racism?

Maybe a subtle comment, like you said earlier. Nice story about the
Abogorinials though. Here in America, we just throw the Winos into jail.

I just hate it when the blacks cry racism because nobody wants to
deliver a pizza to their neighborhood. MAYBE ITS BECAUSE THEY
TURNED THE GODDAMN PLACE INTO A WAR-ZONE!!!

Sheesh.

[Mr Bean]

I prefer a Bradly but a guess a simple Assult rifle will do it is day time







*As with every Shep Thread
Thus the world we live in

[Lusankya]

The abos were pretty decent with their lot. They moved out quietly and didn't really complain, although I bet that they knoew just as well as everyone else why the dry zone came in.

I think the city was getting too many complaints from tourists that we were being too tolerant.

[MKSheppard]

I think the city was getting too many complaints from tourists that we were being too tolerant.

Ahhhh..........TOURONS......responsible for all kinds of shit

[Lusankya]

well, I like to think that this was good shit, so I'm not complaining.

[Sea Skimmer]

I prefer a Bradly but a guess a simple Assult rifle will do it is day time

My minimal is this

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/07/war.wa ... index.html

But a BMP-3 or CV90120-T really is preferable

[Stravo]

Oh. so it wasn't a comment on racism?

Maybe a subtle comment, like you said earlier. Nice story about the
Abogorinials though. Here in America, we just throw the Winos into jail.

I just hate it when the blacks cry racism because nobody wants to
deliver a pizza to their neighborhood. MAYBE ITS BECAUSE THEY
TURNED THE GODDAMN PLACE INTO A WAR-ZONE!!!

Sheesh.

Shep...MUST we use the indefinate THEY? I live in a pretty rough Neighborhood myself in Manhattan and I can tell you that there is no they, there IS the thugs and criminal elements and then there are the families just trying to get by and survive. THEY is not thinly disguised at all in my opinion.

As to the point of the story, I would not deliver to a bad neighborhood either and as bad as I feel for those people I can understand the driver's poitn of view...there are greater risks going into the bad neighborhoods PLUS the chance of getting a nice tip are slimmer, so on a cost benefit analysis, it just deosn't pay to deliver and I bet that even if they opened up the delivery routes to those neighborhoods, most drivers would not want to go. Fact is you can't MAKE people deliver goods where they don't want to go. Sorry. Why not try to petition your city council to actually try to clean up the neighborhoods instead of chastising businesses that have perfectly legitmate reasons why they don't want to serve neighborhoods.

I am getting sick and tired of folks claiming racism for purely economic reasons that businesses don't go and set up shop in certain places. People don't have the money, and most people outside of the neighborhood don't want to go there to use the services BECAUSE of the neighborhood, so your business is stuck with a customer base that on average just does not have the spending money AND outside customers don't want to come in because of your location....So what is the incentive??

Cities need to provide incentives such as tax breaks in order to get businesses to move into ecomoically depressed areas, otherwise this claim that businesses should move in just to balance the racial scales...just doesn't fly when the true reason is more of an economic one. Businesses are there to make money, not to treat everyone equally. We leave that to the govt.

[MKSheppard]

Shep...MUST we use the indefinate THEY? I live in a pretty rough Neighborhood myself in Manhattan and I can tell you that there is no they, there IS the thugs and criminal elements and then there are the families just trying to get by and survive. THEY is not thinly disguised at all in my opinion.

I consider the residents of those neighborhoods as part of the
problem. They're fucking SHEEP, perfectly happy to cower inside
their homes, instead of dealing with the problem themselves.

We both know the cops don't give a shit about these run-down
neighborhoods, and the gangs know it too. The cops have
better things to do with their time than to respond to every crime
in a trashy part of town (money talks).

I don't mind the street gangs if all they do is just walk around
talking trash, like teenaged males like to do.....however...If a
member of a street gang lays a hand on my property, or god
forbid, a member of my family, I have no compunctions about
liquidating the entire gang in a single night of violence, to make
them an object lesson to the rest of the populace...DONT FUCK
WITH ME.

The gangs have you all scared to death of them, when in reality,
you could just wipe them out in a single night.

[Mr Bean]

Aye considering the yammering of polys about how many guns are floating around if you DONT do somthing about the dumb shits your helping them. Seriously one "borrowed" Abrums from the near by National Guard Armorery and I'd like to see the reaction of 100% of Gangs out there where 200 Tons of Tank coming Rolling by and imprevious to any pop guns or base-ball bats and clear them out in a Shep tradition of bloody vengance

Of course I did leave the keys to my tank in my other wallet so I guess those Gangs are safe for now(But then agian as fun as the direct apporach would be its not somthing you can walk away from what with that octopule or more murder charge on your head)

[Sea Skimmer]

Aye considering the yammering of polys about how many guns are floating around if you DONT do somthing about the dumb shits your helping them. Seriously one "borrowed" Abrums from the near by National Guard Armorery and I'd like to see the reaction of 100% of Gangs out there where 200 Tons of Tank coming Rolling by and imprevious to any pop guns or base-ball bats and clear them out in a Shep tradition of bloody vengance

Of course I did leave the keys to my tank in my other wallet so I guess those Gangs are safe for now(But then agian as fun as the direct apporach would be its not somthing you can walk away from what with that octopule or more murder charge on your head)

The Abrams is 68 tons, and Tanks and other military ground vehicles don’t have key. You turn them on using a small knob, and secure them by padlocking a built in cable to the steering wheel.

No need for the direct approach though, one of the several National guard armoiries you can find in every major American should have some mortars and/or claymores. AT4's and Predators bring a new level to drive bys..

[oberon]

Pointless Reply:

I delivered pizzas once. The company policy was not to deliver to the projects, day or night. Drivers would deliver there at their discretion if they needed the money. I delivered there, but only after I got a King Cobra .357, stowed in my fanny pack behind the money bag.

I also lived in a tenement building. It was mostly white people. We couldn't get pizza there because some tenants beat up a Domino's guy and stole the pizza.

[Master of Ossus]

Pointless Reply:

I delivered pizzas once. The company policy was not to deliver to the projects, day or night. Drivers would deliver there at their discretion if they needed the money. I delivered there, but only after I got a King Cobra .357, stowed in my fanny pack behind the money bag.

I also lived in a tenement building. It was mostly white people. We couldn't get pizza there because some tenants beat up a Domino's guy and stole the pizza.

Good GOD. I never thought that delivering pizzas could be such a dangerous assignment. You should have requested hazard pay.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I prefer a Bradly but a guess a simple Assult rifle will do it is day time

My minimal is this

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/07/war.wa ... index.html

But a BMP-3 or CV90120-T really is preferable

I heard of this place that can modify your car with weapons, but it can cost half a million, and after modifications, your car can weigh up to 5 tons. I tihnk it's called IbisTek, I don't know, I read it in a newspaper I was using to protect the ground while I was painting.

The pizza guy should just put a machine gun on a turret on top of the car. And, put armor on the car, and wear a bulletproof vest.

[Wicked Pilot]

I can't believe these people simply say "it's tragic" when a driver gets robbed and assaulted. Their streets are crawling with crime yet it's not a big deal. But when they can't get their pizza delievered, they go ape shit screaming "Racism!" If I lived in that neighborhood, I'd first start working on the crime problem, then the pizza problem. Not the other way around.

[Darth Wong]

I consider the residents of those neighborhoods as part of the problem. They're fucking SHEEP, perfectly happy to cower inside their homes, instead of dealing with the problem themselves.

Shep, this may come as a shock to you, but violence doesn't solve everything. The root causes of the inner-city crime problem (which I agree is very real; I wouldn't deliver pizza to certain neighbourhoods either) are social. Killing off a few miscreants won't solve anything; it will just get your ass thrown in jail.

We both know the cops don't give a shit about these run-down
neighborhoods, and the gangs know it too. The cops have better things to do with their time than to respond to every crime in a trashy part of town (money talks).

In my neighbourhood, you can't walk a block at night without seeing a cop car cruising by. Just 15 minute north of here, in the shitty neighbourhood, people swarm unwary passerby and beat them for their money, and there's no cops to be seen.

I don't mind the street gangs if all they do is just walk around talking trash, like teenaged males like to do.....however...If a member of a street gang lays a hand on my property, or god forbid, a member of my family, I have no compunctions about liquidating the entire gang in a single night of violence, to make them an object lesson to the rest of the populace...DONT FUCK WITH ME.

Easier said than done, Shep. I think you'd have a pretty hard time convincing a judge that mass murder is a justifiably response to trespassing.

The gangs have you all scared to death of them, when in reality,
you could just wipe them out in a single night.

I reiterate: easier said than done. Inner-cities will always be full of criminals as long as people in those regions are brought up to believe the system is against them.

[Seele]

Well I'm talking from expericance as a 5 year vetern of working at Pizza Hut as a driver. Yes. there was several areas we didn't deliver to but it wasn't from race. It's from the simple fact that "NOBODY WANTS TO DIE FOR PIZZA!!!!"

[Mr Bean]

One thing Wong

Shep, this may come as a shock to you, but violence doesn't solve everything. The root causes of the inner-city crime problem (which I agree is very real; I wouldn't deliver pizza to certain neighbourhoods either) are social. Killing off a few miscreants won't solve anything; it will just get your ass thrown in jail

Sheps not talking about just killing a few. He refers to typical Shepism where the National Guard after a two month study of who the enemy is rolls in the Neighbor-hoods in some Abrums(Heck Bradlys might be just enough for it) and simulatly across the land guns them all down

Remeber Wong moraly correct or not(Shep? Morals? heh heh) he never thinks small

[Sea Skimmer]

I reiterate: easier said than done. Inner-cities will always be full of criminals as long as people in those regions are brought up to believe the system is against them.

That would really depend on how much ammunition is expended, no people/city, no criminals..

Sheps not talking about just killing a few. He refers to typical Shepism where the National Guard after a two month study of who the enemy is rolls in the Neighbor-hoods in some Abrums(Heck Bradlys might be just enough for it) and simulatly across the land guns them all down

Remeber Wong moraly correct or not(Shep? Morals? heh heh) he never thinks small

Go with the basic M1, which has an HE round, or a mix of M60 combat engineer tanks, everybody loves 165mm demolition guns, and CV9040s. 25mm cannon fire can't effectively penetrate your typical intercity brick construction, and the M1A1/A2's gun is really too long and has the wrong rounds for the job.

[MKSheppard]

Shep, this may come as a shock to you, but violence doesn't solve everything. The root causes of the inner-city crime problem (which I agree is very real; I wouldn't deliver pizza to certain neighbourhoods either) are social. Killing off a few miscreants won't solve anything; it will just get your ass thrown in jail.

Ah Ah, are you familiar with the history of ethnic organized crime in America?

In the olden days, everyone in an ethnic enclave would be dirt poor,
and yet there would be no street crime, etc. because everyone knew
that the neighborhood was under the protection of the local mob.
Anyone stupid enough to assault/steal/murder someone on the
Mob's home turf would be dealt with harshly by the Mob itself.

In my neighbourhood, you can't walk a block at night without seeing a cop car cruising by. Just 15 minute north of here, in the shitty neighbourhood, people swarm unwary passerby and beat them for their money, and there's no cops to be seen.

Money does talk, after all.

Easier said than done, Shep. I think you'd have a pretty hard time convincing a judge that mass murder is a justifiably response to trespassing.

Actually, Repo Men fear working in Texas. Many of them have been
shot to death by Texans for trying to repossess a Texan's vehicle.

And usually, they walk, as no Jury will convict them.

And I live in America, where I have a right to trial by Jury, and when
we have that, we have that little secret weapon......JURY NULLIFICATION!

http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/juries.htm

You could quite conceivably murder an entire street gang in America
for attacking your brother one night, and you'd walk, if you present
your argument to the Jury in the right format.

I mean, shit, I wouldn't vote to convict a guy who tracked down
his sister's assailant/rapist and shot him in the head twice.

I reiterate: easier said than done. Inner-cities will always be full of criminals as long as people in those regions are brought up to believe the system is against them.

True, but liquidating the most problematic ones will allow a great deal
more peace on the streets.