Conservative writers battle "Tranzi" menace

[PainRack]

You know what.. I think it would be fun to dig up and source old quotes prior to the invasion of Malaya, where the Japanese leaders claimed that the Japanese would win because Europeans were the descendants of apes but Japanese were the descendents of the Emperor, of how Japan would lead the Asians to modernity and prosperity, of giving Asians a voice and throwing off the yoke of their European oppressors.

Just replace some key worlds like modernity(freedom), capitalism(prosperity), democracy for freedom and European for Arab/Muslim and you get the same speeches these fuckers are using.

[Simon_Jester]

There's a deep unity among bullies throughout history- people who will hurt you simply because they can, who think their superior force must be flowing from some deep moral superiority, who will whine and wail and say "no fair, you hit me back!" if someone tries to stop them.

The foreign policy of the neocon wing of the right has a lot of 'bully logic' in it.

Then again, it is also fading out of political relevancy, so bonus points there.

[Alkaloid]

Also, apart from the fact that gas use was always a fickle thing due to changing winds, Hitler was once victim of a (mustard?) gas attack, and he was said to shy away from its use because of his experiences.

That's what makes it an effective weapon though, not the physical damage it does, but the damage to morale. WW2 is a perfect example, gas wasn't being used by anyone but gas masks were handed out by the thousands because gas is a hideous way to die, if it doesn't kill you it's likely to see you blind and crippled, and people in charge had seen its work and were terrified of it.

[SpaceMarine93]

Hints of Nazi preference by the authors had already been hinted in the works. According to Wikipedia article on the series about technology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Aldenata

The technology made available includes rejuvenation and life extension. The desperate straits of the setting lead to the revival of the Waffen-SS in The Watch on the Rhine. With the rejuvenations in full swing in Germany, many ex-SS officers have become young again. In the novel, the majority of the ex-SS were just soldiers; only a few are hardcore Nazis. This causes a lot of dissent in the German Parliament and citizenry. The Greens and the Reds (political parties within Germany) organize riots and protests; the re-integration of the SS officers and the choice of the Parliament and Chancellor to give to those officers control of the training of the young men of Germany.

Anti-Semitic references with the Darhel:

Elf-like in appearance, they are the lawyers and bankers of the Galactic Federation and effectively control it, skimming wealth from the labor of others. Although vegetarian, they have razor-sharp teeth. While smaller than humans, Darhel have far greater physical abilities—and some would say their mental abilities are just as advanced, particularly a subtle but potent ranged empathic ability. However, they are devout pacifists. These contradictions are the result of genetic tampering by a powerful and arrogant elder race, the Aldenata. Although the full extent of this tampering is not detailed, the most crippling is their pacifism—when Darhel are stressed, their bodies produce an epinephrine analogue they call tal—which unlike epinephrine, augments both physical and mental abilities. The Aldenata altered Darhel biochemistry so that heightened tal levels induce a permanent coma-like state known as lintatai. This, in combination with their empathic ability, left them extremely inept at violent acts and physically incapable of taking any form of animal life. Their survival has thus become dependent on their ability to manipulate others to fight their battles for them. The Darhel are implied to be attempting to mold Humans into a race of Mamlukes; recruiting the planet's most skilled warriors to fight the Posleen on Galactic worlds, preserving their bloodlines by moving family members to protected worlds—and permitting the Posleen to conquer Earth, thus leaving Humanity dependent on the Darhel as all other Galactic races. After the defeat of the Posleen on Earth, Humans discovered the extent of the Darhel duplicity, manipulation and actions against the Human Race, the majority of the Darhel are wiped out by Humans in the aftermath of the Posleen War, leaving them the underclass of Galactic civilization.

... and they condone near genocide of the entire race for doing something akin to what Nazis think the Jews were doing.

No doubt about it about the authors' ideological background, really.

[Simon_Jester]

Don't be a fucking idiot.

You haven't read the books, don't know anything about the authors, and don't know the context. Trying to substitute what you read on Wikipedia for knowing what's going on in the books is not good enough, not if you want to jump up and down and scream for attention in week-old threads.

1) Actually, Kratman probably is a Nazi, but Ringo isn't, and he invented the damn setting in the first place. Kratman is largely responsible for Watch on the Rhine and its plotting, and calling Kratman a Nazi is an old pastime. What can I say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

2) The Darhel bear little resemblance to anti-Semitic caricatures of Jews if you actually read the goddamn books, which in a case like yours probably ought to be a prerequisite for opening your big mouth to scream about them. I can't remember the last time anti-Semitic propaganda accused the Jews of being descended from a tribe of psychotic axe murders who were modified by aliens to be incapable of violence by making the act of getting violent kill them. Or the last time they were accused of 'getting control' of the international political and banking scene as a proxy for the violence they'd rather be doing if it weren't lethal to them.

[SpaceMarine93]

Whoops, my bad.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm trying to remember a time when you have been correct and well informed in your hysterical declarations that this or that is the Ultimate Evil.

I'm not thinking of any.

Would you please try to exercise a little more moderation?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Just as a word of warning, TOM KRATMAN, SPACE MARINE! likes to google himself and show up whenever someone mentions his name, like he did on SB. So don't be surprised if it happens.

[Simon_Jester]

That would be really funny to watch; I for one would be amused.

[Zaune]

Just as a word of warning, TOM KRATMAN, SPACE MARINE! likes to google himself and show up whenever someone mentions his name, like he did on SB. So don't be surprised if it happens.

Well, for what good it does, let the record state that however many justifiable criticisms we may make of Tom Kratman, he has the major redeeming feature of not being Michael Z. Williamson.

[Simon_Jester]

Unless I'm badly mistaken, you could equally well say it the other way around...

[Zaune]

I never got through more than three chapters of Kratman's Legacy of the Aldenata story or even picked up anything else he's ever written, but unless the "heroes" actually reenact an infamous historic war-crime and the narrative still tries to pass them off as the good guys he's still one place lower on my shit-list.

[Kryten]

I never got through more than three chapters of Kratman's Legacy of the Aldenata story or even picked up anything else he's ever written, but unless the "heroes" actually reenact an infamous historic war-crime and the narrative still tries to pass them off as the good guys he's still one place lower on my shit-list.

Kratman uses actual war criminals as his good guys; Watch on the Rhine features 'rejuvenated' Waffen-SS soldiers as the heroes.

[PeZook]

Kratman uses actual war criminals as his good guys; Watch on the Rhine features 'rejuvenated' Waffen-SS soldiers as the heroes.

None of those guys personally murdered hundreds of thousands of people like protagonists in The Weapon, though. As an organization, they also haven't slaughtered anywhere near the number of people murdered by Freehold as a whole.

Kratman also ineptly tries to paint the SS rejuv as an agonizing and controversial decision in-universe, whereas Freeholders never bat an eye at their massive bodycount. I'd say Freehold is worse

[Simon_Jester]

Conceded, though it makes my brain hurt.

[PeZook]

Conceded, though it makes my brain hurt.

Well, in a broader context, you could say it's worse to glorify actual war criminals like the SS, because that reinforces and supports neo-nazi sentiments, which actually has potential to cause real misery and death in the future, while Freeholders cheering their massive attack against civilians is pretty much just wank....I can see how that would put Kartman as worse than Williamson.

[Zaune]

Also, one thing I remember from Watch On The Rhine was that the German government only applied the rejuvenation to individual Waffen-SS veterans who had been cleared of any personal involvement in war crimes, whatever their unit might have participated in as a whole.

Williams, on the other hand, had his protagonists commit war-crimes, the smallest of which was very obviously inspired by the My Lai Massacre.