Notes of Freedom

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Shroom Man 777
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Notes of Freedom

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Escape from New York (Times) wrote:I LEFT Guantánamo Bay much as I had arrived almost five years earlier — shackled hand-to-waist, waist-to-ankles, and ankles to a bolt on the airplane floor. My ears and eyes were goggled, my head hooded, and even though I was the only detainee on the flight this time, I was drugged and guarded by at least 10 soldiers. This time though, my jumpsuit was American denim rather than Guantánamo orange. I later learned that my C-17 military flight from Guantánamo to Ramstein Air Base in my home country, Germany, cost more than $1 million.

When we landed, the American officers unshackled me before they handed me over to a delegation of German officials. The American officer offered to re-shackle my wrists with a fresh, plastic pair. But the commanding German officer strongly refused: “He has committed no crime; here, he is a free man.”

I was not a strong secondary school student in Bremen, but I remember learning that after World War II, the Americans insisted on a trial for war criminals at Nuremberg, and that event helped turn Germany into a democratic country. Strange, I thought, as I stood on the tarmac watching the Germans teach the Americans a basic lesson about the rule of law.

How did I arrive at this point? This Wednesday is the 10th anniversary of the opening of the detention camp at the American naval base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. I am not a terrorist. I have never been a member of Al Qaeda or supported them. I don’t even understand their ideas. I am the son of Turkish immigrants who came to Germany in search of work. My father has worked for years in a Mercedes factory. In 2001, when I was 18, I married a devout Turkish woman and wanted to learn more about Islam and to lead a better life. I did not have much money. Some of the elders in my town suggested I travel to Pakistan to learn to study the Koran with a religious group there.

I made my plans just before 9/11. I was 19 then and was naïve and did not think war in Afghanistan would have anything to do with Pakistan or my trip there. So I went ahead with my trip.

I was in Pakistan, on a public bus on my way to the airport to return to Germany when the police stopped the bus I was riding in. I was the only non-Pakistani on the bus — some people joke that my reddish hair makes me look Irish — so the police asked me to step off to look at my papers and ask some questions. German journalists told me the same thing happened to them. I was not a journalist, but a tourist, I explained. The police detained me but promised they would soon let me go to the airport. After a few days, the Pakistanis turned me over to American officials. At this point, I was relieved to be in American hands; Americans, I thought, would treat me fairly.

I later learned the United States paid a $3,000 bounty for me. I didn’t know it at the time, but apparently the United States distributed thousands of fliers all over Afghanistan, promising that people who turned over Taliban or Qaeda suspects would, in the words of one flier, get “enough money to take care of your family, your village, your tribe for the rest of your life.” A great number of men wound up in Guantánamo as a result.

I was taken to Kandahar, in Afghanistan, where American interrogators asked me the same questions for several weeks: Where is Osama bin Laden? Was I with Al Qaeda? No, I told them, I was not with Al Qaeda. No, I had no idea where bin Laden was. I begged the interrogators to please call Germany and find out who I was. During their interrogations, they dunked my head under water and punched me in the stomach; they don’t call this waterboarding but it amounts to the same thing. I was sure I would drown.

At one point, I was chained to the ceiling of a building and hung by my hands for days. A doctor sometimes checked if I was O.K.; then I would be strung up again. The pain was unbearable.

After about two months in Kandahar, I was transferred to Guantánamo. There were more beatings, endless solitary confinement, freezing temperatures and extreme heat, days of forced sleeplessness. The interrogations continued always with the same questions. I told my story over and over — my name, my family, why I was in Pakistan. Nothing I said satisfied them. I realized my interrogators were not interested in the truth.

Despite all this, I looked for ways to feel human. I have always loved animals. I started hiding a piece of bread from my meals and feeding the iguanas that came to the fence. When officials discovered this, I was punished with 30 days in isolation and darkness.

I remained confused on basic questions: why was I here? With all its money and intelligence, the United States could not honestly believe I was Al Qaeda, could they?

After two and a half years at Guantánamo, in 2004, I was brought before what officials called a Combatant Status Review Tribunal, at which a military officer said I was an “enemy combatant” because a German friend had engaged in a suicide bombing in 2003 — after I was already at Guantánamo. I couldn’t believe my friend had done anything so crazy but, if he had, I didn’t know anything about it.

A couple of weeks later, I was told I had a visit from a lawyer. They took me to a special cell and in walked an American law professor, Baher Azmy. I didn’t believe he was a real lawyer at first; interrogators often lied to us and tried to trick us. But Mr. Azmy had a note written in Turkish which he had gotten from my mother, and that made me trust him. (My mother found a lawyer in my hometown in Germany who heard that lawyers at the Center for Constitutional Rights represented Guantánamo detainees; the center assigned Mr. Azmy my case.) He did not believe the evidence against me and quickly discovered that my “suicide bomber” friend was, in fact, alive and well in Germany.

Mr. Azmy, my mother and my German lawyer helped pressure the German government to secure my release. Recently, Mr. Azmy made public a number of American and German intelligence documents from 2002 to 2004 that showed both countries suspected I was innocent. One of the documents said American military guards thought I was dangerous because I had prayed during the American national anthem.

Now, five years after my release, I am trying to put my terrible memories behind me. I have remarried and have a beautiful baby daughter. Still, it is hard not to think about my time at Guantánamo and to wonder how it is possible that a democratic government can detain people in intolerable conditions and without a fair trial.

Murat Kurnaz, the author of “Five Years of My Life: An Innocent Man in Guantánamo,” was detained from 2001 to 2006.
"After a few days, the Pakistanis turned me over to American officials. At this point, I was relieved to be in American hands; Americans, I thought, would treat me fairly."

"I remained confused on basic questions: why was I here? With all its money and intelligence, the United States could not honestly believe I was Al Qaeda, could they?"

"One of the documents said American military guards thought I was dangerous because I had prayed during the American national anthem."

"Still, it is hard not to think about my time at Guantánamo and to wonder how it is possible that a democratic government can detain people in intolerable conditions and without a fair trial."


It's morning again in America. There's so much freedom in the world. :)

The best part is that with these italicized excerpts, you can either laugh because you know that today "Americans would treat me fairly" is obviously not the case and that everything has gone to hell and it's turned into such an absurd nightmare that can only be some kind of joke. Or you won't laugh and instead you'll cry, because of just how warped and twisted and ugly everything has become and how today people know this and there's no way in hell anyone will think the USA would ever treat anyone fairly.

I also like how the Americans drug the prisoners they're setting free. It's very classy of them.

Also:

"Despite all this, I looked for ways to feel human. I have always loved animals. I started hiding a piece of bread from my meals and feeding the iguanas that came to the fence. When officials discovered this, I was punished with 30 days in isolation and darkness."


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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Stofsk »

After two and a half years at Guantánamo, in 2004, I was brought before what officials called a Combatant Status Review Tribunal, at which a military officer said I was an “enemy combatant” because a German friend had engaged in a suicide bombing in 2003 — after I was already at Guantánamo. I couldn’t believe my friend had done anything so crazy but, if he had, I didn’t know anything about it.
How could he know anything about it if he's been at Gitmo for two and a half years?

Shit like this just drives me nuts. It really comes across as them half-assing everything.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

The intelligence institutions that provide the Decider with the information he needs to exercise his life over death power in closed secret sessions are very reliable and can be trusted to bring freedomization and eneaglement to those most deserving of it. If they have proven themselves in correctly ascertaining the fates of entire nations and the countless people living in them, then certainly they are qualified to bring judgment to insignificant individuals.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Stark »

Stofsk wrote:How could he know anything about it if he's been at Gitmo for two and a half years?

Shit like this just drives me nuts. It really comes across as them half-assing everything.
Obviously that's why he was in Pakistan being trained as a terrorist, dude.

You have to remember the massive confirmation bias these guys have going on.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by PeZook »

Any bets on whether or not they paid him any compensation for ruining his life?
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Stofsk »

PeZook wrote:Any bets on whether or not they paid him any compensation for ruining his life?
Hah. Hah.

Man I can't even muster a bitterly sarcastic laugh.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I am sure they only used the finest branded pharmaceuticals when they dosed him up prior to releasing him. They didn't spare any expense on that, and didn't use any cheapo generic stuff. Only the best, for those America brings freedom to.

They probably spent all of his compensation money on the million dollar flight back to Germany. He was lucky they just didn't throw him into the middle of the Atlantic while he was in his drug-fueled stupor.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by wautd »

Torturing an innocent teen for fake confessions. Welcome to Medieval times America!
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by PeZook »

wautd wrote:Torturing an innocent teen for fake confessions. Welcome to Medieval times America!
Not really. Lots of countries did and still do that.
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Scorpion »

PeZook wrote:
wautd wrote:Torturing an innocent teen for fake confessions. Welcome to Medieval times America!
Not really. Lots of countries did and still do that.
Yeah, and lots of countries still stone adulterers to death. That doesn't mean it isn't medieval barbarism.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by PeZook »

Scorpion wrote:[
Yeah, and lots of countries still stone adulterers to death. That doesn't mean it isn't medieval barbarism.
They also don't tend to prattle endlessly about their comittment to human rights and international law while doing that :D
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

PeZook wrote:
Scorpion wrote:Yeah, and lots of countries still stone adulterers to death. That doesn't mean it isn't medieval barbarism.
They also don't tend to prattle endlessly about their comittment to human rights and international law while doing that :D
Well, this is why they are the leader of the free world. :)
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Sriad »

PeZook wrote:Any bets on whether or not they paid him any compensation for ruining his life?
Just show me the poor sucker who'll take the "yes" side. :banghead:
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Eulogy »

Way to increase the amount of people who will now want to ruin you, America. Way to make more enemies who will pounce on you when your corruption and rot makes you too weak to fight back.

If you wanted more terrorists, you got them. You are your own worst enemy, and atrocities like this will only hasten the inevitable.

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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Simon_Jester »

Eulogy, quit being a drama queen. This guy doesn't give a damn about "hurting America." He just wants to get his life back.

Of course, he's going to be pissed at the US permanently, and may never trust Americans again, ever, and who can blame him? But to be perfectly honest, this won't "make more terrorists," because the terrorists are angry at the US for reasons that have little or nothing to do with this man's plight. He, personally, is not a poster child for them.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Spoonist »

@Eulogy
This is actually a miniscule drop an a vast ocean of better reasons for those so inclined to become a terrorist. It just won't register a bit.
Instead what it is is a bitter reminder to the civilized world that it isn't and that it's checks and balances are ignored by those in power. So it's more of a wake up call for democracies than anything else.

@Everyone
I'd recommend the wiki page about this guy and some of the articles it references.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Todeswind »

Simon_Jester wrote: Of course, he's going to be pissed at the US permanently, and may never trust Americans again, ever, and who can blame him? But to be perfectly honest, this won't "make more terrorists," because the terrorists are angry at the US for reasons that have little or nothing to do with this man's plight. He, personally, is not a poster child for them.
I suspect he's going to have more than enough hate to go around for many years to come.

It has been my experience that people mistreated by a particular government tend to go through a long period of hating the government and everything about it but often come to forgive the people of the country after a few decades. The Nagasaki and Hiroshima survivors I've had the opportunity to interact with have all sort of echoed the same "we hate the people who did what they did to us but we do not blame America for the actions of a few men" sentiment.

EDIT: That being said they fucking HATE the US military with the passion of a thousand suns.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by MKSheppard »

Speaking of notes of freedom, Barry Shroombama's killing machines have started killing once more in peaceful Pakistan after a 55 day cease fire.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Uraniun235 »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:The best part is that with these italicized excerpts, you can either laugh because you know that today "Americans would treat me fairly" is obviously not the case and that everything has gone to hell and it's turned into such an absurd nightmare that can only be some kind of joke. Or you won't laugh and instead you'll cry, because of just how warped and twisted and ugly everything has become and how today people know this and there's no way in hell anyone will think the USA would ever treat anyone fairly.
And to top everything off, everyone involved in his capture, imprisonment, interrogation, and torture was officially and fully immunized for these actions in 2009. Nobody will ever be investigated, tried, or held accountable for what happened to him.


Remember: accountability is un-American!

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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Lonestar »

But who DID fire half their government? THE COMMIES.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Uraniun235 »

I got around to it:

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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by Thanas »

PeZook wrote:Any bets on whether or not they paid him any compensation for ruining his life?
They blocked a suit of his in court using the "state secret doctrine". Because admitting that they messed up is a "state secret".

Of course, while this is going on, Obama is vigorously defending the secret prison in Bagram, which is totally exempt from any review process of what is going on there because...you guessed it....it is outside the US.
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Re: Notes of Freedom

Post by General Brock »

Demonstrable freedom from accountability is kind of an ultimate freedom.

Wonder if the people responsible for this realize that, or just just lucked out on it.
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