What Imperial Army?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

(talking OT here) : In none of the movies or novels is there ever a mention of an imperial "army". In fact, their is no mention of a "navy" either. Its all part of the Imperial Starfleet. There is no army apart from Stormtroopers. The guys in green are just higher ranking officers (probably above Captain).

Of course, I'm also of the belief that the Imperial Starfleet is significantly smaller than what other estimate (on the order of hundreds of ships instead of hundreds of thousands). Each sector has its own security force nominally loyal to the Emperor. The dudes on the Tantive IV would fall into this category. That's why the rebels are such a threat. If a system revolts it carries with it a significant miltary force. It -needs- the Death Star to tip the balance in its favor.

Wrong. There are "A thousand-thousand" member worlds in the Galactic Empire. That's 1,000,000 worlds. You're not going to be able to even begin to defend that space with a fleet of hundreds. The UFP from Star Trek only has 150 planets, and they have an awful hard time defending that with only a few hundred ships. Even if you had one ship for every 10 planets, that's still 100,000 ships.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Here are two rather official quotes:

"Imperial stormtroopers are first-strike units sent into critical combat situations in support of both the Imperial Star Fleet and the Imperial Army."

and another quote:

"Drawn from hardened combat soldiers, All Terrain Armored Transort (AT-AT) pilots are conditioned to believe themselves invicinble. Though they no longer need to wear their armor and life-support suits, the continue to wear them - perhaps as part of their combat history."

both quotes from

Star Wars: The Visual Dictionary


The first of the above quotes indicates that the stormtroopers are a separate branch of service from the Fleet and Army.

The second quote indicates that Imperial Army soldiers in combat normally wear outfits identical (except perhaps for changes in color, helmet details and the gauntlets/gloves) to those of AT-AT pilots. Referencing the photo next to the entry from which the second quote is drawn, it would appear to be a sealed jumpsuit with a life support pack, stormtrooper helmet and light armor plating for the shoulders and upper torso. Basically, then, the standard battle dress of an Imperial soldier appears to be exactly what one would want to equip entire armies of soldiers with if they are to operate on planetary battlefields rife with nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

The lighter outfits of AT-ST walker pilots probably represent the outfits worn by Imperial Army soldiers expected to be inside protected vehicles or not operating in an active combat zone.

Also, the simple use of the word soldier in the description of the AT-AT pilot indicates that the AT-AT pilot can not be from the same branch of service as the stormtroopers and their related specialist troops like scout and snow troopers. Marines, which the stormtroopers patently are, would virtually never refer to themselves as soldiers, just as Army soldiers would virtually never refer to themselves as troopers except in one specific context: cavalry units.

[Howedar]

Airborne as well IIRC.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Airborne as well IIRC.

Luckily, I included a qualifier.

[Aaron2]

Yes, there is a distinct mention of the Imperial Navy. Calling it the Navy is extremely common. Yet it is never called the Starfleet.

My bad. When I said "novels" I meant the novilization of the movies, not the EU stuff. And "Navy" is never mentioned in the scripts or the novilizations.

As to Starfleet:
"Dangerous to your starfleet, Commander"

"The entire starfleet couldn't destroy the whole planet"


Aaron

[Aaron2]

(talking OT here) : In none of the movies or novels is there ever a mention of an imperial "army". In fact, their is no mention of a "navy" either. Its all part of the Imperial Starfleet. There is no army apart from Stormtroopers. The guys in green are just higher ranking officers (probably above Captain).

Of course, I'm also of the belief that the Imperial Starfleet is significantly smaller than what other estimate (on the order of hundreds of ships instead of hundreds of thousands). Each sector has its own security force nominally loyal to the Emperor. The dudes on the Tantive IV would fall into this category. That's why the rebels are such a threat. If a system revolts it carries with it a significant miltary force. It -needs- the Death Star to tip the balance in its favor.

Wrong. There are "A thousand-thousand" member worlds in the Galactic Empire. That's 1,000,000 worlds. You're not going to be able to even begin to defend that space with a fleet of hundreds. The UFP from Star Trek only has 150 planets, and they have an awful hard time defending that with only a few hundred ships. Even if you had one ship for every 10 planets, that's still 100,000 ships.

The Republic controled the galaxy of 1 million member worlds with no army and only a token starfleet. Why should the Empire be any different? Its more like the UN than the US. The UFP isn't a good model because their ships are painfully slow and they are surrounded by enemies on all sides. The Empire has no external threats which is why Palpatine had to create internal threats in AOTC.

A small Imperial fleet (like the one Vader had) can still control vast amount of space since it can be moved anywhere in the galaxy in a matter of hours, ready to disgorge troops at a moments notice.


Aaron

[Raptor 597]

(talking OT here) : In none of the movies or novels is there ever a mention of an imperial "army". In fact, their is no mention of a "navy" either. Its all part of the Imperial Starfleet. There is no army apart from Stormtroopers. The guys in green are just higher ranking officers (probably above Captain).

Of course, I'm also of the belief that the Imperial Starfleet is significantly smaller than what other estimate (on the order of hundreds of ships instead of hundreds of thousands). Each sector has its own security force nominally loyal to the Emperor. The dudes on the Tantive IV would fall into this category. That's why the rebels are such a threat. If a system revolts it carries with it a significant miltary force. It -needs- the Death Star to tip the balance in its favor.

Wrong. There are "A thousand-thousand" member worlds in the Galactic Empire. That's 1,000,000 worlds. You're not going to be able to even begin to defend that space with a fleet of hundreds. The UFP from Star Trek only has 150 planets, and they have an awful hard time defending that with only a few hundred ships. Even if you had one ship for every 10 planets, that's still 100,000 ships.

The Republic controled the galaxy of 1 million member worlds with no army and only a token starfleet. Why should the Empire be any different? Its more like the UN than the US. The UFP isn't a good model because their ships are painfully slow and they are surrounded by enemies on all sides. The Empire has no external threats which is why Palpatine had to create internal threats in AOTC.

A small Imperial fleet (like the one Vader had) can still control vast amount of space since it can be moved anywhere in the galaxy in a matter of hours, ready to disgorge troops at a moments notice.


Aaron

Hmm, no they are 12 Million Star Systems, it on Mr. Saxton's Page somewhere(Is to busy to dig it up) And Palpatine was only one Senator which lead 34 Worlds(Probably a Whole Sector) True, Death Squadron could command some Space, but little. Simulataneous Attacks would make it useless, thus requiring Sector Forces. dEath Squadron could not stop Incursions if the Rebels use Hit-and-Run Tactics which they did, thus requiring the Imperial Fleet to be Quite Large. Palpatine was a Militant and he saw his Requests be done with the Most Blunt Authority.

[Raptor 597]

Oh, I also ment to add they're are Imperial Army Officers, let me think: Veers, Covell, Brashin, Tantor, Tierece, etc. And those Troops in Green Armor and Helmets(Similar to AT-ST's Dricers helemts at Endor) are Imperial Commandoes

[Jim Raynor]

The Republic controled the galaxy of 1 million member worlds with no army and only a token starfleet. Why should the Empire be any different? Its more like the UN than the US. The UFP isn't a good model because their ships are painfully slow and they are surrounded by enemies on all sides. The Empire has no external threats which is why Palpatine had to create internal threats in AOTC.

A small Imperial fleet (like the one Vader had) can still control vast amount of space since it can be moved anywhere in the galaxy in a matter of hours, ready to disgorge troops at a moments notice.


Aaron

You haven't watched the prequels carefully, have you? The Republic was in a state of total chaos. Tatooine, a world supposedly under its control was completely ungoverned and ruled by Hutt criminals, a mere shipping company can invade a member world without any military resistance, and had it not been for the clones, the Republic also would not have been able to put together an army to fight the thousands of seceding worlds.

[Master of Ossus]

The Republic controled the galaxy of 1 million member worlds with no army and only a token starfleet. Why should the Empire be any different? Its more like the UN than the US. The UFP isn't a good model because their ships are painfully slow and they are surrounded by enemies on all sides. The Empire has no external threats which is why Palpatine had to create internal threats in AOTC.

A small Imperial fleet (like the one Vader had) can still control vast amount of space since it can be moved anywhere in the galaxy in a matter of hours, ready to disgorge troops at a moments notice.


Aaron

You haven't watched the prequels carefully, have you? The Republic was in a state of total chaos. Tatooine, a world supposedly under its control was completely ungoverned and ruled by Hutt criminals, a mere shipping company can invade a member world without any military resistance, and had it not been for the clones, the Republic also would not have been able to put together an army to fight the thousands of seceding worlds.

Tatooine was not under Republic control. I have demonstrated this on my thread with DarkStar. You are right that the Republic was in chaos, and was substantially less powerful than it had been. You are also correct about most of your statements regarding the military.

[Jadeite]

aaron2 wrote:

talking OT here) : In none of the movies or novels is there ever a mention of an imperial "army". In fact, their is no mention of a "navy" either. Its all part of the Imperial Starfleet. There is no army apart from Stormtroopers. The guys in green are just higher ranking officers (probably above Captain).

Of course, I'm also of the belief that the Imperial Starfleet is significantly smaller than what other estimate (on the order of hundreds of ships instead of hundreds of thousands). Each sector has its own security force nominally loyal to the Emperor. The dudes on the Tantive IV would fall into this category. That's why the rebels are such a threat. If a system revolts it carries with it a significant miltary force. It -needs- the Death Star to tip the balance in its favor.

Aaron (a devout canonist)

If you believe that, then you sir, are an idiot. Devout canonist? Only in your dreams. If the Navy only had hundreds of ships, then the rebels probably couldv fought a standard war, instead of hit and run type crap.

[Aaron2]

If the Navy only had hundreds of ships, then the rebels probably couldv fought a standard war, instead of hit and run type crap.

Depends on how big you think the Rebel fleet is. If the Rebel ships in ROTJ were not the majority of the Rebel fleet, then the Rebellion would not have been "crushed" by their destruction.


Aaron

[Aaron2]

You haven't watched the prequels carefully, have you? The Republic was in a state of total chaos. Tatooine, a world supposedly under its control was completely ungoverned and ruled by Hutt criminals, a mere shipping company can invade a member world without any military resistance, and had it not been for the clones, the Republic also would not have been able to put together an army to fight the thousands of seceding worlds.

The Rebublic ruled successfully for a thousand years w/o an army. That's pretty good. They were hardly in the state of "total chaos". If it were, Palpatine wouldn't have had to manufacture crisis twice to get what he wanted.


Aaron

[Darth Yoshi]

That was because they had the Jedi. Without the Jedi, do you really think the Republic would have lasted as long as it did? And the Republic gov't was corrupt and ineffective. That's not total choas, but it's primed for self destruction.

[AL]

I'm not so sure there is an imperial army. I think the Stormtroopers are the core of the fighting force. Everything else exists to support them. I would even say that the at-at operators are indeed clones grown and trained with the stormtroopers, but receive advanced training in at-at operations. However, I can't prove this theory. I can't explain at-st operators, they are not clones. There would be no need for an army if you have stormtroopers, all clones and all the best of the best, loyal to the cause good at what they do and easily replaced, and very expendable.

[Jim Raynor]

I'm not so sure there is an imperial army. I think the Stormtroopers are the core of the fighting force. Everything else exists to support them. I would even say that the at-at operators are indeed clones grown and trained with the stormtroopers, but receive advanced training in at-at operations. However, I can't prove this theory. I can't explain at-st operators, they are not clones. There would be no need for an army if you have stormtroopers, all clones and all the best of the best, loyal to the cause good at what they do and easily replaced, and very expendable.

Read the Imperial Sourcebook, which you can find a link to in one of the other threads on this forum. It very clearly explains that Stormtroopers are not the main ground troops, but is a special elite shock force separate from both the Army and the Navy. Also, Stormtroopers aren't clones. The EU shows that they are normal men just like anybody else.

[Guest]

The Imperial Army only exists in the EU and the imaginations of all those who want to believe in it. It does not exist in the movies. I would like to see one piece of evidence from the MOVIES that shows there is an Imperial Army. If the evidence is good enough, I'll believe it. I just don't recall having seen it.

[Guest]

I agree with Aaron that the Imperial Starfleet only consists of a few hundred to at most a thousand or so ships.

[Imperial Federation]

The Imperial Army only exists in the EU and the imaginations of all those who want to believe in it. It does not exist in the movies. I would like to see one piece of evidence from the MOVIES that shows there is an Imperial Army. If the evidence is good enough, I'll believe it. I just don't recall having seen it.

Oh shut the hell up, the EU is part of Star Wars whether you like it or not.

[Imperial Federation]

I agree with Aaron that the Imperial Starfleet only consists of a few hundred to at most a thousand or so ships.

Yeah, because you're an asshole.

[SirNitram]

I agree with Aaron that the Imperial Starfleet only consists of a few hundred to at most a thousand or so ships.

Pity there's no evidence anywhere to back up your nonsense.

[Guest]

Didn't anyone see the finale of the special edition ROTJ? Where was the "mighty" Imperial fleet of 25,000 Star Destroyers and the "huge" Imperial Army when citizens all over the galaxy were celebrating the defeat of the Empire? Wasn't there a scene of a large statue of Palpatine being torn down as well? I think it is pretty safe to say that the Empire did not have the resources to adequately control its territory. It is also safe to say that the Empire had precious few Star Destroyers to spread around. Doesn't anyone else realize that GL was showing us the complete collapse of the Empire at the end of ROTJ? If the Empire had a huge fleet and army, the defeat at Endor would have been a small squirmish. GL certainly would not have shown the galaxy liberating itself like that. If the Empire was so powerful that it could build Death Stars and Star Destroyers like cars how could they have been defeated at Endor? If SirNitram and company take the Empire so personally, they need to see a shrink.

[Mr Bean]

Gee allow me to handle this one

Wasn't there a scene of a large statue of Palpatine being torn down as well? I think it is pretty safe to say that the Empire did not have the resources to adequately control its territory

If I where not a brain-dead shurb such as you who decides for Fun to refuse to acknowledge EU(I'll do you the same Favor by Disregaring everything from TNG on chuckles) I might have read somone-where in the X-Wing Series where those Protestors where all slaughtered soon after by the Local Storm-Troopers on the stop for Treason aginst the state, and Courscant itself did not fall untill two and a half years later and even then was GIVEN to them by Isard as a means of trying to cripple the Rebels and in a sense it did, leading to thier eventual downfal to the Vong where by presumbably the Empire steps back in and saves there ass but then if I where a brain-dead plant I would not know this would I?








In conclusion
He’s as clumsy as he is stupid

[Imperial Federation]

Didn't anyone see the finale of the special edition ROTJ? Where was the "mighty" Imperial fleet of 25,000 Star Destroyers and the "huge" Imperial Army when citizens all over the galaxy were celebrating the defeat of the Empire? Wasn't there a scene of a large statue of Palpatine being torn down as well? I think it is pretty safe to say that the Empire did not have the resources to adequately control its territory. It is also safe to say that the Empire had precious few Star Destroyers to spread around. Doesn't anyone else realize that GL was showing us the complete collapse of the Empire at the end of ROTJ? If the Empire had a huge fleet and army, the defeat at Endor would have been a small squirmish. GL certainly would not have shown the galaxy liberating itself like that. If the Empire was so powerful that it could build Death Stars and Star Destroyers like cars how could they have been defeated at Endor? If SirNitram and company take the Empire so personally, they need to see a shrink.

Gee, ever heard of riots and demonstrations?
The death of the Empire's absolute leader would cause chaos and uprisings, 25,000 Star Destroyers or not.
Those scenes patently did not show the total collapse of the Empire, nor do they prove how many Star Destroyers they have, you're just assuming because you think you're clever.

And they were defeated at Endor because it WAS A TRAP THAT WENT WRONG, their fleet was SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE galaxy.
What part of that don't you understand?

[Jadeite]

. In the special edition after the fall of Palpatine in ROTJ, you see people celebrating all over the Empire. If the Empire had thousands of warships and garrisons on every world, don't you think they would be able to put down or control those celebrating people?? Isn't it more reasonable to say that GL was showing us the complete collapse of the Empire??

The empire put down those revolts pretty brutally. Ill bet this guys going to be another village idiot.