Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases

[Alyrium Denryle]

The judiciary should be the last line of defence for civil liberties. In America even the judges are a part of the problem. The entire system is fucked. I don't think there'll be a full revolution, but it may be that some fire is needed to burn out the rot.

It is worth noting that sometimes, just sometimes, the circuit courts make weird rulings for the specific purpose of kicking something up to the Supreme Court.

[Surlethe]

Less repugnant, no. But we shouldn't be acting as though this is terrible, unexpected, unprecedented, as though we were all twelve-year-olds who actually believed the American self-image.

And especially does not excuse anything when the US is moving backwards, not forwards.

And when you got a president celebrating it is even worse.

Backwards? I'd really like to see some evidence that the US was actually significantly, noticeably superior in the past. Relative to now, of course, not to its then-opponents like the USSR. (This is not to say that I believe you're wrong, but my impression is that this is not as clear-cut a regression as you're making out.)

[Thanas]

Backwards? I'd really like to see some evidence that the US was actually significantly, noticeably superior in the past. Relative to now, of course, not to its then-opponents like the USSR. (This is not to say that I believe you're wrong, but my impression is that this is not as clear-cut a regression as you're making out.)

Did you have assassinations of US citizens withoud due process and on the fiat of the president under Clinton (and even under Bush)?
Did you have prisons like Guantanamo and Bagram and did you refuse independent oversight over these prisons to the UN or red cross?
Did you have indefinite military detention on secret evidence with the courts not hearing those cases?
Did you have legal immunity for torturers and assassins?
Did you engage in a widespread campaign of bombing with no or little care for civilian casualties back then?
Did you have a widespread doctrine of denying victims of state abuse their day in court?

It is a pretty clear cut regression from the Clinton years to the current state to me.

[Stark]

Less repugnant, no. But we shouldn't be acting as though this is terrible, unexpected, unprecedented, as though we were all twelve-year-olds who actually believed the American self-image.

Doesn't cynically accepting it just perpetuate it? If everyone shared your attitude, there would be no pressure to ever stop.

[Ahriman238]

It is shocking, the courts really aren't supposed to be that political. And yeah, the entire American Principles thing has been kind of circling the drain for the last few years. That doesn't mean you give up hope, it means you try harder.

Really, American History is one long stretch of having high values and expectations, and drastically failing to live up to them. Nothing new there.