Mr Assange is stubbornly hanging on by his fingertips to the UK.
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I don't know what to think. I don't know how well his case was argued, nor the merits of the grounds in question, but well I think he and his supporters have politicised his case to such a large extent that a large number of people seem to have forgotten he's accused of sexually assaulting two women. Instead it seems to have morphed into a grand international conspiracy spearheaded by America to have him tried for espionage which is completely unrelated to what he's alleged to have done in Sweden.
Stofsk wrote:I don't know what to think. I don't know how well his case was argued, nor the merits of the grounds in question, but well I think he and his supporters have politicised his case to such a large extent that a large number of people seem to have forgotten he's accused of sexually assaulting two women. Instead it seems to have morphed into a grand international conspiracy spearheaded by America to have him tried for espionage which is completely unrelated to what he's alleged to have done in Sweden.
Because he's not being charged with sexually assaulting two women, first Sweden attempted to extradite him for "questioning". Then they charged him the Swedish equivalent of sexual misconduct. He is not charged with rape but with something that could result in at most five years in prison yet the way that Sweden has handled these actions have not been like they were going after a moderate crime but from the resources devoted for someone who had committed far worse and far more serious crimes.
Your also neglecting the fact that America, well know friend to all has called him a terrorist and has demonstrated over the past decade that foreign people if taken by America have no hope, can and will be tortured if arrested and if not will be executed without trial. And in JA's direct case there are those in the American justice department who have directly said the instant he's back in Sweden we will try to extradite him here.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
I do not think he is an angel or that his innocence is guaranteed. There might be some legitimate ground for trial here.
However, I also do not blame him for fearing for his bodily integrity.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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If he goes to jail in Sweden, I understand the danger that he could be extradited to the US, but would he necessarily be?
I would think that at this point, the political advantage to European countries of not extraditing people to the US, where they may be murdered or tortured, is pretty significant. The British just did extradition in a copy infringement case, but the infringer isn't really in danger to life or limb even if they end up losing a lawsuit for a pile of money.
You underestimate the pressure the US is able to put upon smaller countries. Heck, I mean they got countries like Spain to drop an investigation as to how and why the US was torturing spanish citizens.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Actually Assange can't be extradited to the US without permission from the UK, and he has to know this or his expensive lawyers haven't been doing their job. Even if he is convicted, sentenced, serve his time and is released he still have a period of "immunity" from further extradition to a third party. Sweden only have him on loan from the UK until then.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
CJvR wrote:Actually Assange can't be extradited to the US without permission from the UK, and he has to know this or his expensive lawyers haven't been doing their job. Even if he is convicted, sentenced, serve his time and is released he still have a period of "immunity" from further extradition to a third party. Sweden only have him on loan from the UK until then.
He can have a bag thrown over his head and be renditioned to Turkey, only his media presence has prevented this to date and the fact it's Britain which is one of the few countries we try to avoid pissing off directly. Had he sought Italian asylum I have little doubt he'd not be in US custody already.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Mr Bean wrote:He can have a bag thrown over his head and be renditioned to Turkey...
Which can happen anywhere.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
Sweden's human rights record is better than the UK's, for the record, and it tends to rate higher in civil liberties and freedom of expression as well. Assange is charged with serious crimes which demand he stand trial, and there is no indication he will receive an unfair trial or be sent to the US. Frankly, remaining in the UK makes him more at risk of being extraordinarily rendited than Sweden. Which country supported the US invasion of Iraq? The UK. Which country has troops in Afghanistan? The UK. Which country suffered more from Wikileaks? The UK. I would submit that the mere suggestion that he is in more danger in Sweden is absurd and that the Swedish accusations must be taken seriously because on the whole the UK has far more reason to cooperate with the US on the Assange matter, far more motive and far more interest, than Sweden ever could, and the Nordic countries are not famous for bowing to US demands or cooperating with US interests, especially in mid-east affairs, and tend to be regarded as having the strongest civil liberties protections of the western world. But of course people ignore all this because they're afraid that their hero Assange might, in fact, be a misogynistic prick who assaulted several women. We won't know until he's had his day in court in Sweden, and the sooner that comes, the better. Really, the longer he's in the UK living in a private building without substantial security, the more likely it is that he ends up in Turkey or Egypt or whatever, not from a Swedish prison.
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For a given value of 'assault' that fails to include any actual assault charges. Important point there.
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Actually no and I can't stress this enough, Britain is one of a very short list of countries where you won't be snatched of the street. The UK might hand him over if we formally charged him but we can't formally charged him with a real crime. The UK government is not going to expose itself like that by giving over Assange to an American military court when we can't be bothered to charge him for his work in wiki leaks.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
IF the US ever decided on the staggering diplomatic cost and risk of going Mossad on Assange the one thing you could be assured of is that he would never have a day in court, the US would never admit to having him - or even knowing who he is! "Assange, who?" If we go down the conspiracy paranoia track then Assange's chances of ending up in a shallow grave or Davy Jone's locker is infinitely higher than him ever seeing the insides of a US courtroom - civilian or military.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
I think this is an important point. Assange himself may want to avoid being taken to Sweden for a trial- anyone who was charged with a crime would want to avoid it. But I don't see the basis for claiming that he should be in fear for his life on account of the possibility of the US government deciding to grab him or assassinate him while he's in Sweden. Or that this is all a big conspiracy to capture him and do horrible things to him.
White Haven wrote:For a given value of 'assault' that fails to include any actual assault charges. Important point there.
The Swedish legal terms for what Assange is charged with don't seem to render gracefully into a single English word, but the act he's accused of roughly matches up to "date rape." I don't think Marina's out of line in calling date rape assault.
IF the US ever decided on the staggering diplomatic cost and risk of going Mossad on Assange the one thing you could be assured of is that he would never have a day in court, the US would never admit to having him - or even knowing who he is! "Assange, who?" If we go down the conspiracy paranoia track then Assange's chances of ending up in a shallow grave or Davy Jone's locker is infinitely higher than him ever seeing the insides of a US courtroom - civilian or military.
If they were going down that route they would have done it by now. The British government probably wouldn't consent as such, but I dare say they'd at least pretend to be taken in if it was made to look like a botched mugging or something; Sweden, not so much.
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Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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There are suspicious circumstances regarding the actual crime. One of the women had previously posted a step by step guide on her blog telling other women how to ruin a mans life by accusing him of rape. The other being that both women hung out with him afterwards, only several days later did they talk to each other and decide to go to the police.
As for the risk of extradition to the US, I doubt the people in charge would dare to do it. He is way too famous, we had a few dirt poor arab nobodys picked up by a CIA plane ten years ago and people are still raising a stink about the SÄPO involvement in that case. I do think he would spend some time in a Swedish jail though, but it should be kept in mind that the Swedish legal system is known for sending gang rapists to jail for as little as five months.
I think his biggest priority is to avoid jailtime and he does not really think we'd send him to the US later. Didn't the US already torture some guy halfway to hell for the whole affair anyway?
Interestingly the legal argument that Assange's team is using is that the warrant is invalid as there was a conflict of interest in its creation. Something about the prosecutor for his case generating and approving it, when he stands to personally / professionally gain from a conviction. I believe the case law is Roman and relates to separation of processes in the court system.
