Revan novel & Plagueis excerpt SPOILERS

[G1d3on]

I've managed to read almost half the book. It's excellent and Luceno gets an A+ for preservation of continuity, in fact so much that I almost feel this novel was ghost-written by Publius.

[JME2]

That sounds encouraging. I can't wait to read this.

[G1d3on]

Yeah, I'm missing ~50 pages of the book. My initial impression is that it's an 8.5/10 {I'm giving a .5 margin for error, just in case the missing pages severely impede the plot}. I also have a TVTropes page up of it, a work in progress. But be warned, there are spoilers in abundance!

[G1d3on]

http://books.google.com/books?id=0Dz8Lg ... r_versions

^ Here's a link to a great many excerpts of Plagueis if anyone's interested. Entire chapters of the book.

[JME2]

With a few weeks left until the official release, Jedi Journals has interviewed James Luceno. It's an interesting interview as Luceno details the gestation of the project, the challenge in balancing both Plagueis and Sidious, and the tying together of the Prequel-era comics, books, and other projects.

[JME2]

Not to play thread necro, but my reserved copy at the library came in, so I've finally been able to read the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.

I just finished Part 1 and I'm really enjoying this. While the insights to Palpatine's early years and behavior are great. Plagueis himself is fascinating. If the rest of the book is this good, it could end up challenging TUF as my favorite Luceno novel.

[JME2]

Finished the book today while on the ride to work.

Overall, it was really good. I liked having the final links in the chain of the Sith Grand Plan explored. Luceno did an excellent job weaving in and out of his own Cloak of Deception and other pre-TPM stories during the third act -- though I suspect casual SW readers are going to be lost.
Spoiler

The revelation that Plagueis dies the night Palpatine wins the Chancellorship took me by surprises, but it's a great twist. I can't watch TPM again without thinking of Plagueis' behind-the-scenes presence. I also can't watch ROTS again without snickering at "The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise". I always thought Palpatine's usage of the title 'Wise' was sarcastic, but never to the degree we we're given here.

[Havok]

This is a spoiler thread. Lets hear it.

[JME2]

Alrighty, some additional thoughts:
Spoiler

* The Sorcerer's Apprentice: Palpatine's tenure as the Sith Apprentice of his generation is fascinating. Throughout the films and EU we've seen Darth Sidious as the shadowy puppet-master whose behavior exasperated Darth Vader and other servants. Here, the roles are reversed and it's almost amusing to see how much of Plagueis's own, similar behavior infuriated the young Sith Lord. Sidious' training and strained relationship with his Master creates further parallels in his relationships with Tyrannus and Vader.

* Plagueis: Luceno did a good job at fleshing out Sidious' master -- all the more difficult as while knew little of Palpatine's beginnings, we knew virtually nothing of the Muun. His depiction of Plagueis is fascinating, equal parts Count of Monte Cristo, Dr. Frankenstein, and Don Vito Corleone. His skills at manipulation and maintaining his dual identities leaves no doubt who helped Palpatine hone his craft. His obsession with achieving immortality also give extra dimension to an already atypical Sith Lord.

* Naboo Politics: Like a lot of people, I always believed the implication that Palpatine had played a role in King Veruna's abdication and death. The timing -- and exploitation of Padme's tenure on the throne during the Naboo Crisis -- was always too convenient. I was surprised, therefore, that it was Plagueis who killed Veruna, not Maul as I'd always thought. It was also a great twist that Palpatine was the one who kick-started Padme's entry into the royal election.

* The Execution of Executors: It was interesting to learn that while the objectives of the Grand Plan have remained unchanged since Bane's time, the successive Dark Lords have favored different methods of executing the imperative -- something that in hindsight should have been obvious. It was interesting to see how much input and influence Palpatine and Damask had on the Plan, such as Plagueis planting the idea of the clone army into Sifo-Dyas' head.

* Dooku the Doomed: Likewise, the revelation that the Sith had had their eye on Dooku for 20 years prior to TPM -- and that they engineered the Galidraan fiasco specifically to start a schism -- adds to the tragedy of the Count of Serenno, Sith aspirations notwithstanding. The last meeting between Palpatine and Dooku brought a grim smile to my face, since we know from Labyrinth of Evil that Palpatine's enlistment of Dooku will follow shortly thereafter.

[Havok]

Sounds pretty good. Got anymore insights?

[Connor MacLeod]

Luceno is one of the few SW writers who I even give a damn about (the others being Allston, Stover, Reeves and Perry, and sometimes Troy Denning or Zahn... depends on the story.) so it doesnt surprise me he does this well. I wish Brian Daley had lived - it would have been fantastic to see him writing for the EU - especially with collaboration with Luceno (who I believe was a friend of Daley) or Matt Stover (who did a tribute to Daley with the Shadows of Mindor novel, which is another of the decent 'modern' EU novels..)

Imagine a novel like Labyrinth of Evil or Cloak of Deception blended with the Han Solo novels.

It does sound good and I'll probably pick this one up eventually, but I've done with buying SW hardcovers. I'll wait for paperback.

[JME2]

I wish Brian Daley had lived - it would have been fantastic to see him writing for the EU - especially with collaboration with Luceno (who I believe was a friend of Daley) or Matt Stover (who did a tribute to Daley with the Shadows of Mindor novel, which is another of the decent 'modern' EU novels..)

Yeah, Daley and Luceno were good friends.

Luceno's own history with the EU is always interesting to think about. He was brought in as a consultant for the NJO and never left.

So, a few more thoughts on the book.
Spoiler

* Forceful Compromises: One of the big issues surrounding Plagueis is whether he or the Force -- or Sidious' attempts to replicate his experiments -- produced Anakin. I like the compromise Luceno presents here, that both Sith and Force directly and indirectly created Anakin. It preserves enough of the ambiguity of the films and the ultimate irony inherent in the Banite Sith's weapon ultimately turning on them).

* The Man Behind the Man: Likewise, that spirit of compromise is present in the revelation that Plagueis was still running the show until mere hours after Palpatine's election. While Palpatine was still the Apprentice, Plagueis' increasing seclusion and focus on his experiments means that Sidious was ultimately still running most of the show and the day-to-day manipulation.

* A Mere Minion: As per Dooku's internal monologue, Luceno revealed in Labyrinth of Evil that Sidious had considered Maul nothing more than a minion. Now we know why, thought it makes you wonder if Maul ever suspected Palpatine was answering to a higher power. Still unlike Dooku, he never realized that he was never the true apprentice.

* Fatal Flaw: I also like Sidious observing that Maul's main flaw is the "Why don't you just shoot him?" trope. It adds new context to how Obi-Wan beat him during the duel in Theed.

* Trusty John: While Plagueis's fixation on immortality is one of the things that brings him down, the other part is what ultimately brings down Dooku on Invisible Hand and Sidious at Endor: his unyielding trust in his colleague. I love that as crafty and manipulative as Plagueis is, he doesn't realize until too late that his apprentice never believed in the "We can rule together pitch" and that his thirst for power exceeded his. It makes you wonder if Luke would have eventually turned on Vader if he had allied with him at Bespin.

* Continuity Porn: This is clearly a novel years in the making. The amount of research Luceno did is staggering. I thought he'd hit his pinnacle with Millennium Falcon, but he goes beyond the impossible.

* Let's You and Him Fight: I love the last scene, with Palpatine's first official meeting with Obi-Wan and Anakin after Qui-Gon's funeral. We get to see Sidious fire off the first salvo in his campaign to drive a wedge between Anakin and the Jedi.

* His Last Bow: If this is Luceno's last novel for the modern EU, then its a damm good note go out on.

[JME2]

One more point since the Edit function expired:
Spoiler

* Opportunistic Servant: I loved how quickly the droid 11-4D pledged his allegiance to Plagueis after he killed the freighter crew -- and then to Palpatine after he killed Plagueis. It makes you wonder what happened to him -- though according to Luceno's Facebook Q&A, he likes to think that 11-4D was one of the droids who ambushed the Republic Intelligence team in Labyrinth and was present for Vader's surgery.

[Ugolino]

Luceno's not writing more novels?

[JME2]

Luceno's not writing more novels?

No, that's not what I meant.

What I was trying to say is that should Luceno choose to stop here, then Darth Plagueis is a good note to go out on. And it's worth pointing out that I felt the same way about The Unifying Force back in 2003.

[Havok]

Spoiler

* A Mere Minion: As per Dooku's internal monologue, Luceno revealed in Labyrinth of Evil that Sidious had considered Maul nothing more than a minion. Now we know why, thought it makes you wonder if Maul ever suspected Palpatine was answering to a higher power. Still unlike Dooku, he never realized that he was never the true apprentice.

* Fatal Flaw: I also like Sidious observing that Maul's main flaw is the "Why don't you just shoot him?" trope. It adds new context to how Obi-Wan beat him during the duel in Theed.

* Continuity Porn: This is clearly a novel years in the making. The amount of research Luceno did is staggering. I thought he'd hit his pinnacle with Millennium Falcon, but he goes beyond the impossible.

* Let's You and Him Fight: I love the last scene, with Palpatine's first official meeting with Obi-Wan and Anakin after Qui-Gon's funeral. We get to see Sidious fire off the first salvo in his campaign to drive a wedge between Anakin and the Jedi.

Expand on these points please.

[Darth Yan]

The Sith are supposed to consider their apprentices (or "shadow hand" if you really want to get geeky) their successors. Sideous never viewed Maul as that. Just another minion to do dirty work but never to succeed.

Continuity: Luceno makes reference to some other works in the EU but actually makes it work. One of them is a reference to an earlier novel, cloak of deception, which helps to establish the nemodians as leaders of the trade federation (One of the reasons Gunray served Sideous. Sideous helped him ascend to the top so Gunray sort of owed him.) Another is a comic about a jedi named Ronhar kim. Palpatine engineered a fake attempt for Kim to thwart so as to create an excuse for creating the red guard (the dudes in red armor that accompany palpatine). Kim's dad was Palpy's predecessor and here it's revealed that while sideous was trained in dark magic by plagueis basic political skills were taught by Senator Kim.

In one of the Bounty hunter games the plot is that Dooku and Sideous want to find the perfect template so they create a contest to track down and kill Dooku's former apprentice, reasoning that the ultimate warrior could take down a dark jedi. at the end Dooku makes the offer to Jango to work for him, and Jango agrees on the condition that he get an unmodified clone (during the game his mentor figure Rozetta was brutally murdered and her last words to him were "Find something else to live for besides the money." It shows that while Jango is no saint he does remember those who truly are his friends, and Roz was one of the few he had so he's honoring her dying wish). The dark jedi, Komari Vosa led a cult called the band gora, who is mentioned in the book. Vosa's torture is why Jango has a scarred face (Zam saved him, but not before Vosa engaged in a brutal torture session.) Incidentally, Jango and Zam also worked with one of the Jedi Council members to save Coruscant frbecause it shows that Jango was capable ofeedom being blow up (the guy was using an ancient force artifact. The big bad stabbed the Jedi council member while he was busy, Jango shot the guy, and the Council member instead used his power to shut the artifact down rather than heal his wounds. Jango delivered the guys body to the temple for a proper burial and Mace said "whoever helped our fallen friend was a hero." Ironic huh. I liked it because it showed that Jango wasn't a monster, and that he didn't teach his son the whole "jedi are scum" schtick.

I'll let Jme go into more detail.

[JME2]

Yan prettty much answered all the points. Let me just add a few additional observations:
Spoiler

* A Mere Minion: We learn -- and Maul's origins are revised to take into account TCW -- that Maul literally fell into Palpatine's hands by accident. He chose to raise him as a Sith assassin with Plagueis' encouragement. Again, Maul never knew he was not the true apprentice, nor did he know about Plagueis. Plagueis also never met him, though he spied on Maul and Sidious' meeting before Maul headed for Tatooine to get Amidala.

* Continuity: By following the films, the Sith takeover is presented in broad, general strokes. By following the Expanded Universe, the scheme is shown to be significantly more complex, even if we weren't always sure how all the pieces interlocked and fit into the puzzle. As he's done before, Luceno ties it all together. He merges disparate Prequel-era comics, novels, and story threads to give the Plan a cohesiveness and scope that it didn't have before now, such as the incidents Yan described.

* Fatal Flaw: Maul is too proud and arrogant in his combat abilities -- not unlike Anakin and something Sidious warns him about. Plagueis also berates him training Maul like this. Maul also likes to revel in the kill and his superiority over other beings, especially Force-users. This is why he didn't immediately kill Obi-Wan after kicking him down the pit. Killing Qui-Gon, a master swordsman, also emboldened him -- and as we know, it costs him his life.

* Let's You and Him Fight: Before his death, Plagueis wants Anakin separated from the Jedi Order, fearful that he could be a threat if the Council decides to train him. At the meeting, however, Palpatine senses the divide between Anakin and the Jedi (in the form of Obi-Wan). He realizes that Anakin, more than Dooku, is the perfect tool to bring the Jedi down from the inside. He discusses Tatooine -- against Obi-Wan's wishes -- and encourages Anakin to follow his own path and destiny.

[Luke Skywalker]

Spoiler

The Revan novel effectively removes all culpability from Revan and Malak for their actions. Rather, they tried to stop the Sith Emperor, and the new Wankatine enslaved them through the Force without stirring from his chair. They returned to conquer the Republic, but their minds twisted his orders and managed to rid themselves of his control and any memory of him, but they remained tainted by the dark side.

So Revan and Malak's fall turns from a cautionary tale about the corrupting dangers of ambition to a cautionary tale about happening to encounter a Sith Lord who can enslave your mind. Really, I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

The novel itself is a fun read, however, some of the writing near the end becomes extremely awkward, almost as if Drew was rushing it. The Exile dies, and there are some vague descriptions of Revan's face, although I suspect that TOR has already shown it.

[JME2]

Since we've reopened the thread, I've got one more note regarding Plagueis. I've read the summary for Luceno's tie-in short story "End Game", that was added to the TPM novelization reprint.
Spoiler

Well, it answers whether or not Maul suspected Sidious was answering to a higher power.

Just before Amidala returns to Naboo, Maul becomes interested in the circumstances surrounding King Veruna's death. After digging, he finds out Hego Damask killed Veruna. And since he knows Damask is an integral player in the Sith plan, it doesn't take him long to put two and two together. The realization that he's not a true Apprentice doesn't stop him from continuing in his duties or trying to kill the Jeid, though.

So there you go. Glad to have it answered.