Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Zinegata
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Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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http://articles.cnn.com/2012-02-04/midd ... MIDDLEEAST
As international anger grows over reports of mass carnage at the hands of the Syrian regime, a U.N. Security Council draft resolution condemning Syria failed to be adopted Saturday after veto-wielding members Russia and China voted against it.

Ambassadors from the other permanent members of the council -- the United States, France, and the United Kingdom -- said they were furious at Russia and China for failing to halt the worsening, bloody violence that has consumed the Middle Eastern nation.

Thirteen Security Council members voted in favor of the resolution.

The vote was a major diplomatic setback for countries hoping to send a unified message to embattled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, and also for opposition groups that look toward the United Nations for support.

"Those that have blocked potentially the last effort to resolve this peacefully ... will have any future blood spill on their hands," U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice told CNN. "The people of Syria have yet again been abandoned by this Council and by the international community."

Some Syrians have cried out for international action to stop attacks on civilians, more so after opposition groups said at least 321 civilians were killed and hundreds wounded in the city of Homs in the past two days.

The opposition Syrian National Council blamed government forces for the attack in Homs, calling it one of the most "horrific massacres" since the start of the Syrian uprising. Residential buildings and homes were "randomly and heavily bombed," the group said.

The Local Coordination Committees (LCC), a Syrian opposition group, said 90 people had been killed in Syria on Saturday, including 61 in Homs, 10 in Idlib, and 19 in a Damascus suburb. In a bid to pressure the government, the group called for a two-day civil strike to start on Sunday.

Another opposition group, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, reported that 48 people were killed across Syria on Saturday, including six army defectors and 18 members of the Syrian security forces.

CNN cannot independently confirm opposition or government reports from Syria because the government has restricted journalists' access to the country.

Some residents accused the international community of sitting idle as bodies mount in the streets, and predicted worsening violence in the wake of the vote.

"We've been expected the U.N. to help us ... and they just left us like this," said an activist identified as Danny. "Now this regime is going to hit us harder."
And why they vetoed it:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/05/world/mea ... =obnetwork
(CNN) -- As international leaders express outrage over mass killings in Syria -- and lament the inability to pass a U.N. Security Council resolution denouncing the Syrian regime -- questions linger about the two countries behind the impasse.

On Saturday, China and Russia vetoed a draft resolution that would have demanded Syrian President Bashar al-Assad stop the killing and answer calls aimed at finding a Syrian-led solution to the 11-month crisis.

Analysts say both China and Russia have their reasons to maintain good relations with Syria.

Russia is one of Syria's biggest arms suppliers. And China ranked as Syria's third-largest importer in 2010, according to data from the European Commission.

Arab League reaction to U.N. veto "Beijing's renewed interest in Damascus—the traditional terminus node of the ancient Silk Road ... indicates that China sees Syria as an important trading hub," according to a 2010 report from The Jamestown Foundation, a Washington-based research and analysis institute.

Even as reports mounted that the Syrian government was killing protesters en masse, the Chinese foreign ministry issued a statement in August noting the "steady development" of friendly relations "over the past 50 years and more."

"China and Syria gave each other understanding and support on issues concerning each other's core and major interests," the statement said. "China showed consistent understanding and firm support for Syria's position on the Golan Heights while Syria remained committed to the one China position and rendered China staunch support on matters related to Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang and human rights."

Last week, China's permanent representative to the United Nations said the killing of innocent civilians must stop, but also said he is against "pushing through" a regime change.

An earlier version of the U.N. Security Council draft resolution called for al-Assad to step down and delegate his powers to his deputy, but that element was not in the draft voted on by members Saturday.

"China is of the view that the Syrian people's request for reform and safeguard of their interests should be respected," Li Baodong said Tuesday, according to China's state-run Xinhua news agency. "It is imperative to put an immediate end to all violence in Syria and oppose and stop the killing of innocent civilians.

"At the same time, an inclusive political process with a wide participation of all Syrian parties must be started without delay to speed up reform and resolve differences and disputes peacefully through dialogue and consultations," he said.

Russia also has an economic interest in Syria.

The total value of Syrian contracts with the Russian defense industry likely exceeds $4 billion, according to Jeffrey Mankoff, an adjunct fellow with the Center for Strategic and International Studies Russia and Eurasia Program.

He noted the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute estimated the value of Russian arms sales to Syria at $162 million per year in both 2009 and 2010.

Moscow also signed a $550 million deal with Syria for combat training jets.

Russia also leases a naval facility at the Syrian port of Tartus, giving the Russian navy its only direct access to the Mediterranean, Mankoff said.

As Western leaders sought to pry al-Assad from power, Moscow sent an aircraft-carrying missile cruiser to Syrian waters in a show of support last month and shipped Syrian troops a consignment of Yakhont cruise missiles, according to Daniel Treisman, a professor of political science at the University of California, Los Angeles.

Speaking after the Saturday vote, ambassadors from both Russia and China said they do support an end to the violence but felt the resolution did not address the crisis properly.

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said the text "did not adequately reflect the real state of affairs and sent an unbalanced signal" to the various sides in Syria. He noted that the minister for foreign affairs will visit Damascus to hold a meeting with al-Assad this week.

Chinese Ambassador Li Baodong called on all parties in Syria to restore order as soon as possible. But he said the text would have served only to "complicate the issue" and would "prejudge the result of dialogue."

China and Russia vetoed another Security Council resolution in October that would have called for an immediate halt to the crackdown, which United Nations officials have said resulted in an estimated 6,000 deaths since protests began nearly a year ago.

With the Security Council failing to approve a resolution, what happens next is unclear.

But as the diplomatic stalemate continues, the death toll in Syria climbs even higher. The Local Coordination Committees of Syria, a network of opposition activists that organizes and documents protests, said the violence has killed more than 7,300.
Pretty disappointing, though not entirely unexpected.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

Post by Block »

If I remember correctly Russia also uses the threat of installing advanced air defence batteries in Syria to keep Nato from putting a ABM platform in Poland.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Block wrote:If I remember correctly Russia also uses the threat of installing advanced air defence batteries in Syria to keep Nato from putting a ABM platform in Poland.
They've used a number of levers for that, including the thread of forward-basing SS-25s in European Russia. I don't think any one is decisive.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

Post by Block »

ChaserGrey wrote:
Block wrote:If I remember correctly Russia also uses the threat of installing advanced air defence batteries in Syria to keep Nato from putting a ABM platform in Poland.
They've used a number of levers for that, including the thread of forward-basing SS-25s in European Russia. I don't think any one is decisive.
No, this was a specific if you do this we'll give a bunch of shit to the Syrians meaning it ends up in the hands of hezbollah.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Block wrote:No, this was a specific if you do this we'll give a bunch of shit to the Syrians meaning it ends up in the hands of hezbollah.
S-300 is too big and complex for Hezb to operate. That is only for Syria in case it gets attacked. In this event Syria could use some help downing NATO planes, don't you think? :lol:
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

Post by Ralin »

Russia is slowly becoming a Chinese satellite.
Not sure if I should ask here or via PM, but I'd appreciate some elaboration on this.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Ralin wrote:
Russia is slowly becoming a Chinese satellite.
Not sure if I should ask here or via PM, but I'd appreciate some elaboration on this.
I say put it here. There are more of us asking the same question. And at least one who is in love with the implications of it should it be true. :mrgreen:
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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One big problem with this whole situation is that there is no open source confirmation to the 'massacres' - including no significant confirmation from the Christian communities in Syria.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

Post by Vympel »

One big problem with this whole situation is that there is no open source confirmation to the 'massacres' - including no significant confirmation from the Christian communities in Syria.
Indeed:-

Link
When the over 160 monitors, after one month of enquiries, issued their report ... surprise! The report did not follow the official GCC line - which is that the "evil" Bashar al-Assad government is indiscriminately, and unilaterally, killing its own people, and so regime change is in order.

The Arab League's Ministerial Committee had approved the report, with four votes in favor (Algeria, Egypt, Sudan and GCC member Oman) and only one against; guess who, Qatar - which is now presiding the Arab League because the emirate bought their (rotating) turn from the Palestinian Authority.

So the report was either ignored (by Western corporate media) or mercilessly destroyed - by Arab media, virtually all of it financed by either the House of Saud or Qatar. It was not even discussed - because it was prevented by the GCC from being translated from Arabic into English and published in the Arab League's website.

Until it was leaked. Here it is, in full.

The report is adamant. There was no organized, lethal repression by the Syrian government against peaceful protesters. Instead, the report points to shady armed gangs as responsible for hundreds of deaths among Syrian civilians, and over one thousand among the Syrian army, using lethal tactics such as bombing of civilian buses, bombing of trains carrying diesel oil, bombing of police buses and bombing of bridges and pipelines.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Did you actually read the report?
14. The Mission visited the residential districts of Baba Amr, Karam Al-Zaytun, Al-Khalidiyya and Al-
Ghuta without guards. It met with a number of opposition citizens who described the state of fear, blockade
and acts of violence to which they had been subjected by Government forces
. At a time of intense exchanges of
gunfire among the sides, the Mission witnessed the effects of the destruction wrought on outlying districts. The
Mission witnessed an intense exchange of gunfire between the Army and opposition in Baba Amr. It saw four
military vehicles in surrounding areas, and therefore had to return to the Governorate headquarters. It was
agreed with the Governor that five members of the Mission would remain in Homs until the following day to
conduct field work and meet with the greatest possible number of citizens
Also...
25. On being assigned to their zones and starting work, the observers witnessed acts of violence
perpetrated by Government forces
and an exchange of gunfire with armed elements in Homs and Hama. As a
result of the Mission’s insistence on a complete end to violence and the withdrawal of Army vehicles and
equipment, this problem has receded. The most recent reports of the Mission point to a considerable calming of
the situation and restraint on the part of those forces
Escobar's version of the events... do not jive with the report. Bluntly, I think he's deliberately lying about the contents of the report in the name of sensationalist journalism; and people need to read the report for themselves to have a proper judgement.

The real main points of the report seem to be:

- The Government HAS shot up civilian areas
- The Opposition HAS shot up government facilities, which are hurting civilians
- Some reports of violence are exaggerated
- The government AND the opposition were both at least was willing to listen to the mediators, and they actually resolved some issues (and arranged a cease fire)
- They have evidence of a third party (possibly the mercenaries), but still put the blame on the government for excessive use of force (see quote below)
- There were issues with accessing the rest of the country AND the government try to spin the monitors to their side (see quote below)

Quote regarding the third party; but noting that it was because of exccessive use of force by the Syrian government prior to the arrival of the monitors.
71. The Mission determined that there is an armed entity that is not mentioned in the protocol. This
development on the ground can undoubtedly be attributed to the excessive use of force by Syrian Government
forces in response to protests that occurred before the deployment of the Mission demanding the fall of the
regime
. In some zones, this armed entity reacted by attacking Syrian security forces and citizens, causing the
Government to respond with further violence. In the end, innocent citizens pay the price for those actions with
life and limb.
Issues with access to civilians / locations in the country.
57. Although it welcomed the Mission and its Head and repeatedly emphasized that it would not impose
any security restrictions that could obstruct the movement of the Mission, the Government deliberately
attempted to limit the observers’ ability to travel extensively in various regions. The Government also
attempted to focus the attention of the Mission on issues in which it is interested
. The Mission resisted those
attempts and responded to them in a manner that allowed it to fulfil its mandate and overcome the obstacles
that stood in the way of its work.
tl;dr: Well, it's good if the monitors are keeping things more civil; but Escobar's article is looking to be downright fantasy when you read the report. And it's still not an excuse for vetoing the resolution - the mission's recommendations (peaceful resolution) isn't exactly something that contradicts the UN resolution (Assad government begin peaceful mediation)
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Did you actually read what he said in his article? He never said the government hadn't done any of the things indicated in the report - he said "There was no organized, lethal repression by the Syrian government against peaceful protesters." No more and no less. And its not just this guy - if you google the report you'll see many of those who have read it note its contents simply do not jibe with the predominant narrative- which is - suprirse - one of the reasons that they tried to discredit the observers.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

Post by K. A. Pital »

This development on the ground can undoubtedly be attributed to the excessive use of force by Syrian Government
Mercs come to your country to participate in a civil conflict = fault of the government. Seriously?

Seriously though, where is Sea Skimmer when you need him? Why is he not explaining that this is an islamist uprising like the one Syrian government quelled in Hama in the 1980s by massacring lots of people?
The Mission witnessed an intense exchange of gunfire between the Army and opposition in Baba Amr.
On being assigned to their zones and starting work, the observers witnessed acts of violence perpetrated by Government forces and an exchange of gunfire with armed elements in Homs and Hama.
Exchange of fire can only happen between two armed forces.

People should stop talking about "peaceful protests" and just say: Syria, like Libya, has a civil war. Low-intensity, so far, but a civil war nonetheless (which already has mercs in). And then without hypocrisy say: "This is a civil war. We pick the government / the opposition, and we shall crush the other side and install regime change/ keep the regime in power".

That's all.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Vympel wrote:"There was no organized, lethal repression by the Syrian government against peaceful protesters."
Did you again miss both of my excerpts from the report? Especially this part?
It met with a number of opposition citizens who described the state of fear, blockade
and acts of violence to which they had been subjected by Government forces
or
On being assigned to their zones and starting work, the observers witnessed acts of violence
perpetrated by Government forces
Emphasis mine.

Escobar's statement implies no organized and lethal repression was happening AT ALL. When the report clearly said it WAS happening when they were there, and it happened BEFORE the mission got there.

The report has a later excerpt wherein the report said the government allowed both opposition and pro-government protests to push through peacefully; but the report clearly implies this only happened because they were there to monitor it.

"The Syrian government allowed some peaceful protestors without shooting them up when the monitors were watching" is totally different from "There is no organized, lethal repression by the Syrian government". The former is what the report actually says. The latter is Escobar's sensationalist journalism, especially when Escobar includes comments like this:
The Syrian National Council is essentially a Muslim Brotherhood outfit affiliated with both the House of Saud and Qatar - with an uneasy Israel quietly supporting it in the background. Legitimacy is not exactly its cup of green tea. As for the Free Syrian Army, it does have its defectors, and well-meaning opponents of the Assad regime, but most of all is infested with these foreign mercenaries weaponized by the GCC, especially Salafist gangs
When the report in fact makes NO mention of the Muslim Brotherhood or Salafist gangs being involved in the conflict at all.
Mercs come to your country to participate in a civil conflict = fault of the government. Seriously?
Actually, the report doesn't name "mercs" or even foreign fighters, as they don't exactly say who this "third party" is. Given that the monitors blame the government (not my words - that's the monitors), that indicates to me that they feel it's home-grown fighters - perhaps army defectors - and not mercs.

A civil war is an appropriate way to call it though; but again there's nothing in the report that actively contradicts passing the resolution, and to pretend it's some kind of Qatari/Saudi/Israeli plot to overthrow the Syrian regime is pretty fucknuts. The Moroccan plan wasn't calling for bombing Syria - it was calling for a peaceful resolution without authorizing sanctions or military action. And both the Syrian government and opposition are actually willing to accept according to the report.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

Post by K. A. Pital »

to pretend it's some kind of Qatari/Saudi/Israeli plot to overthrow the Syrian regime is pretty fucknuts.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 09,00.html

Yeah, yeah, "fucknuts". Qatar and Saudi Arabia's ears are sticking out of the Libyan civil war. I would not put is past them to get involved in another civil war.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

Post by Zinegata »

Stas Bush wrote:
to pretend it's some kind of Qatari/Saudi/Israeli plot to overthrow the Syrian regime is pretty fucknuts.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 09,00.html

Yeah, yeah, "fucknuts". Qatar and Saudi Arabia's ears are sticking out of the Libyan civil war. I would not put is past them to get involved in another civil war.
Again, have you read the report?

There is zero mention of overt foreign involvement; and claiming that it's a Qatar/Saudi/Israeli (not Qatar/Saudi) plot like Escobar is doing is very much fucknuts as he hasn't shown any evidence to prove it. The report actually says they don't know who's blowing up the various targets around Damascus. For all we know it's really a Syrian false flag operation; particularly given the monitor's complaint that their access was limited to certain areas.

Now, you're free to "not put it past them" (Qatar/Saudi), but that's not what Escobar is doing. He's deliberately lying about what the report actually said to cook up some kind of conspiracy theory that the whole Syrian War is just another Saudi/Qatar/NATO/US/Israeli plot.

Really, read his article; then compare to the report. It's a conspiracy nut talking out of his ass who couldn't even be bothered to be consistent with the "leaked" report he's waving around. He says the report claims there is no violence; that's absolutely untrue. He claims the report is a smoking gun proving that it's all a Qatar/Saudi/Israeli plot with NATO in support. Again, not true.
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Re: Russia and China veto Resolution on Syria

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Was listening to NPR this morning and some Russian rep was saying that China has used its; veto power far less often than the US or Russia has. While that might be true its not a good answer.
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