Gunhead's Flag Discussion With Flagg

[Flagg]

Hey man if you guys wanna use a symbol that is almost universally regarded as pure evil, then good for you?

[Gunhead]

Hey man if you guys wanna use a symbol that is almost universally regarded as pure evil, then good for you?

We do. And if people can't tell the fucking difference, is it really our fault? The swastika has been and will be used. It's inception and use predates its use by the nazis by several decades. So if people cannot fathom the difference. Boohoo fucking hoo.

-Gunhead

[Flagg]

Hey man if you guys wanna use a symbol that is almost universally regarded as pure evil, then good for you?

We do. And if people can't tell the fucking difference, is it really our fault? The swastika has been and will be used. It's inception and use predates its use by the nazis by several decades. So if people cannot fathom the difference. Boohoo fucking hoo.

-Gunhead

Yes, it is your fault for using it. I get Buddhists doing it, because it's a religious symbol for them, but you can choose not to do it. That you continue to use it despite its history of pure evil shows that you're a cunt.
That is all.

-Flagg

[Gunhead]

Hey man if you guys wanna use a symbol that is almost universally regarded as pure evil, then good for you?

We do. And if people can't tell the fucking difference, is it really our fault? The swastika has been and will be used. It's inception and use predates its use by the nazis by several decades. So if people cannot fathom the difference. Boohoo fucking hoo.

-Gunhead

Yes, it is your fault for using it. I get Buddhists doing it, because it's a religious symbol for them, but you can choose not to do it. That you continue to use it despite its history of pure evil shows that you're a cunt.
That is all.

-Flagg

Woo.. like I didn't anticipate this one. Here's a hint. We've been using this symbol way before the nazis did so. And ours is only similar to the one the nazis used, but like a coward that you are, you just allow the nazis to hijack a symbol without a fight. I just hope rest of the world isn't as spineless as you. I'm not. I can tell the difference between a Nazi swastika and the one on in the flag, can you? No I didn't think so. And that is the problem, a symbol that was a sign of good luck is hijacked simply because people cannot tell the fucking difference.
P.S Swastikas "history" of pure evil is just something you learned in popular culture, and in fact the good aspect of the same symbol is far older.
That is all

-Gunhead

[Flagg]

We do. And if people can't tell the fucking difference, is it really our fault? The swastika has been and will be used. It's inception and use predates its use by the nazis by several decades. So if people cannot fathom the difference. Boohoo fucking hoo.

-Gunhead

Yes, it is your fault for using it. I get Buddhists doing it, because it's a religious symbol for them, but you can choose not to do it. That you continue to use it despite its history of pure evil shows that you're a cunt.
That is all.

-Flagg

Woo.. like I didn't anticipate this one.

Shows how clueless you are.

Here's a hint. We've been using this symbol way before the nazis did so.

So?

And ours is only similar to the one the nazis used, but like a coward that you are, you just allow the nazis to hijack a symbol without a fight. I just hope rest of the world isn't as spineless as you. I'm not. I can tell the difference between a Nazi swastika and the one on in the flag, can you?

Yes, actually. But so what? It's still so close to what the Nazis used that to use it as a symbol when you could just as easily change it is at best retarded and at worst deliberate use of something known around the world as being evocative of pure evil.

No I didn't think so.

Guessed wrong, dumbass.

And that is the problem, a symbol that was a sign of good luck is hijacked simply because people cannot tell the fucking difference.

Which is the problem. People cannot tell the fucking difference. Thank you for making my point for me.

P.S Swastikas "history" of pure evil is just something you learned in popular culture, and in fact the good aspect of the same symbol is far older.

No, the swastikas history of pure evil is just that, history of pure evil. Unless you don't think a world shattering war that killed tens of millions isn't enough reason to, you know, think about what you use as representation of yourself. The Confederate Battle Flag was used long before the US Civil War and was co-opted by hateful fucktards. Does the fact that it was used in a "nonoffensive" capacity at one point take away any of its hateful nature now?

That is all

-Gunhead

We can only hope.

[Gunhead]

And Flagg fails history 101.. no surprises there. Not to mention that this thread is about the use of SS symbol by some guys. But hey It's the ebul Nazis so we'll throw all symbolism in the same basket just like an uneducated little fuck would. And thanks for making my point. We shouldn't give up on a symbol of good luck with hundreds of years history behind it just because some people used it to further their agenda for a few years. But I guess this is too complicated for your Good / Evil American brain Flagg. So thanks for making my point. Idiots like you cannot be trusted to make an informed opinion. Well to to those who can, I do appreciate it's a difficult thing to explain to our young, but I think it's worth the effort just so people know what their grandparents fought for and educate them how and why people fought, even if it doesn't provide easy answers and raises more questions about the past.

-Gunhead

[SCRawl]

From here.

This is an unnecessary diversion from the current topic. Feel free to discuss it further here.

[Zinegata]

Swastika's history of pure evil is frankly a Western invention. It's still widely used in India, China, and elsewhere without any evil connotation whatsoever. Seriously, does this even look like the Nazi swastika?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HinduSwastika.svg

If you color it black, put on a white circle, and placed on top of a red flag then you can make a case; because that's the complete Nazi iconography.

But really, saying the Swastika as being a symbol of PURE EVIL is like saying all Germans are evil because they produced the Nazis. Just because "people cannot tell the fucking difference" does not excuse this sort of broad generalization.

Also from maddoctor

Just echoing Zinegata here:

I can walk down the road, pop into the shop that sells religious paraphernalia and get:
a swastika on a necklace, a swastika on a stick, a swastika roof tile topper, a swastika transfer for my bike, a different one for my helmet and, the piece de resistance, a backlit LED swastika for placing behind a Buddhas head for a halo. When you power it up, it shows a swirling 'brain washing' pattern leading into the swastika.

and we're not talking the poncy hindu one above. We're talking regular, angular, at 45 degree angle basic clone of the nazi one. and nobody here even knows, anymore then any American can describe the flag of pre 1975 South Vietnam.
It's a huge deal in the west, but approximately 5/6 of the worlds population doesn't care.

(Because Flagg's position that the Swastika history is pure evil is again simply fucknuts)

[Bakustra]

on the other hand, you're a fucking lunatic

[madd0ct0r]

I'm a fucking lunatic with a swastika on a stick.

that makes me a pious fucking lunatic, by the way.

[Flagg]

And Flagg fails history 101.. no surprises there. Not to mention that this thread is about the use of SS symbol by some guys. But hey It's the ebul Nazis so we'll throw all symbolism in the same basket just like an uneducated little fuck would. And thanks for making my point. We shouldn't give up on a symbol of good luck with hundreds of years history behind it just because some people used it to further their agenda for a few years. But I guess this is too complicated for your Good / Evil American brain Flagg. So thanks for making my point. Idiots like you cannot be trusted to make an informed opinion. Well to to those who can, I do appreciate it's a difficult thing to explain to our young, but I think it's worth the effort just so people know what their grandparents fought for and educate them how and why people fought, even if it doesn't provide easy answers and raises more questions about the past.

-Gunhead

You can hide behind insults all you want. And you've failed to address a single point I raised. But I guess you're above responding to stupid Americans.

[Flagg]

From here.

This is an unnecessary diversion from the current topic. Feel free to discuss it further here.

Why was this split to testing? There is nothing "testing" about this tangent.

[SCRawl]

^It's not News & Politics, and if it isn't there or SLAM (or Testing or HoS) I can't moderate it further.

[Zinegata]

on the other hand, you're a fucking lunatic

Oh shut up and go back to your troll friends on New Testingstan. Go coordinate your trolling efforts there with Flagg like you normally do.

Because I'm just laughing at how you're again projecting your own sicko needs on me. You're a lunatic. You want to rape dogs. We get that. Stop projecting your shit on me.

[madd0ct0r]

@SCRawl

politics surely?

one is claiming that the nazis have contaminated the symbolism to such an extent it's use by a military unit is in deeply bad taste (pure fucking evil, to quote)

the other is claiming their use predates the nazis, and much as the nazis weren't allowed to contaminate the symbolism of Germany permanently, neither should they get exclusive rights to the swastika. I kinda agree, since 5/6 of the words pop doesn't care, but the location of these units is important.

[Dalton]

Enough. Keep on topic.

[madd0ct0r]

to clarify on unit location: are these units going to be operating in europe? where the swastika does have a huge amount of nazi associations attached.

[Zinegata]

Personally, it's less of where the unit is going and more of how the Swastika is portrayed.

Again, if it's colored black, put on a white circle, and put on a red flag, then it's very clearly Nazi iconography. Otherwise... *shrug* Maybe he's Hindu or Buddhist?

[SCRawl]

Thinking better of it, I've brought this thread back out of Testing. I had forgotten how strange things can get in Testing.

Carry on.

Edit: SLAM is its new home.

[AniThyng]

The Confederate Battle Flag was used long before the US Civil War and was co-opted by hateful fucktards. Does the fact that it was used in a "nonoffensive" capacity at one point take away any of its hateful nature now?

I think the analogy is more like saying the Confederate Battle Flag has tainted the scottish flag, if we are going to compare it to a different swastika. In fact you could make the arguement that to muslims a lot of European countries flags have a distinct connection to the crucifix and is a symbol of crusades and imperialism. The converse is true of Islamic symbology. Nazi-ism is a special kind of vile where even *similar* symbols end up being tarred. (Should Bangladesh change its flag because it looks like a differently coloured Risng Sun?)

[K. A. Pital]

1. I think that fighting symbols instead of the actual movement is not that important.
2. However, one should note that after swastika became firmly associated with Nazis in the West, many organizations changed their emblems so as to avoid the swastika. Which means the lame excuse of "well we had it before" doesn't really work.

That would be all.

[Shroom Man 777]

It's not the symbol being used, but those who use that symbol.

[Gunhead]

There's a real good reason why we still have it. The swastika was a symbol our pilots used during WWII and it was removed as the official emblem of our air force after the war due to nazi links. But it was maintained in the honorary flag as a token of respect for those who fought and died to protect our homeland. I for one think preserving history for future generations that if I'm ever asked why there's a "nazi" symbol in there I can tell why. Like it or not, it's a part of our history and I'm not ashamed of that. I do apologize to Flagg for mouthing off to him, I was drunk and not thinking clearly. But I also don't just accept we should abandon a piece of our history just because people are too lazy to find out the facts.

So Flagg if you're reading this, I apologize for my behavior. It was uncalled for and if the above doesn't tell you enough. I can tell more.

-Gunhead

[Thanas]

There's a real good reason why we still have it. The swastika was a symbol our pilots used during WWII and it was removed as the official emblem of our air force after the war due to nazi links. But it was maintained in the honorary flag as a token of respect for those who fought and died to protect our homeland.

Are you saying the continuation war was one of self-defence?

Otherwise, shouldn't it be more of "those who fought and died while taking part in a war of aggression against the soviet union and causing huge numbers of civilian casualties in the siege of Leningrad?"

[Edi]

There's a real good reason why we still have it. The swastika was a symbol our pilots used during WWII and it was removed as the official emblem of our air force after the war due to nazi links. But it was maintained in the honorary flag as a token of respect for those who fought and died to protect our homeland.

Are you saying the continuation war was one of self-defence?

Otherwise, shouldn't it be more of "those who fought and died while taking part in a war of aggression against the soviet union and causing huge numbers of civilian casualties in the siege of Leningrad?"

The Continuation war was not one of our proudest moments and it turned into a war of aggression when we crossed the old border eastward, but Finland did not take part in the siege of Leningrad. We did not do anything to relieve it either, but seeing as how we were at war with the Soviets, it was neither expected nor required of us.

Finland was caught rather badly between a rock and hard place for the duration of WW2 and the only real help of any significance we got was from Nazi Germany once they fell out with the Soviet Union.