America admits suspects died in interrogations

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-03-07 03:08pm

By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
07 March 2003

American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was "homicide", contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism.

The complete 411

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-03-07 03:17pm

Is anyone surprised by this?

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2003-03-07 03:18pm

"Whoops."

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-07 03:20pm

damn. now I have to ponder ethics again.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-03-07 03:23pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Is anyone surprised by this?

Not really...given the time and circumstances

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-07 03:25pm

I quess we were just supposed to ask them nicely. Oh My God where is Alan Dershawitz

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-07 03:26pm

I can see beating them, but beating them to death is a bit much. . .

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-03-07 03:35pm

I disagree with physical torture, there are otherways of getting information.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-07 03:35pm

Oh well, these are suicide bombers. They probably would have killed themselves sooner or later anyway.

And no, I'm not really surprised.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-07 03:51pm

Beautiful how we all assume that because a few prisoners died we assume that it was torture by the US. How do we know that the prisoners werren't trying to escape or attack a guard?

Nevertheless there shouldn't be any sort of cover up. as long as the oil interests of the world are fighting each side of this conflict then there will never be peace ya? The sooner we get our hydrogen powered cars the sooner we can let the middle east destroy itself.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-03-07 03:55pm

Thread Highjack

I thought the greedy oil companies have bought all of the Hydo powered cars...

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-07 03:59pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Beautiful how we all assume that because a few prisoners died we assume that it was torture by the US. How do we know that the prisoners werren't trying to escape or attack a guard?

Nevertheless there shouldn't be any sort of cover up. as long as the oil interests of the world are fighting each side of this conflict then there will never be peace ya? The sooner we get our hydrogen powered cars the sooner we can let the middle east destroy itself.

That may be true; however, it does appear that some at least questionable interrogating practices have been going on. Not that I feel sorry for them; I don't approve of torture, but I have absolutely no compunction about reveling in the pain and suffering of truly bad people.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-07 04:07pm

Its wierd if the Americans beat a prisoner to make him talk everyone gets upset,but if the other side does it noone talk,the so called geneva convention is not worth the kleenex its written on.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-07 04:09pm

Hameru wrote:By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
07 March 2003

American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was "homicide", contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism.

The complete 411

Interrogation is not a pleasant experience, and enemies are generally under the impression that Amercians won't torture them. So whether or not it's true, I don't mind the perception being out there. It isn't as if captured Amercians aren't killed during interrogation. Speaking for the Army, we don't torture prisoners. I can't speak for the three-letter agencies.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-03-07 04:12pm

For some reason I'm finding it very hard to give a shit about this.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-03-07 04:22pm

Montcalm wrote:Its wierd if the Americans beat a prisoner to make him talk everyone gets upset,but if the other side does it noone talk,the so called geneva convention is not worth the kleenex its written on.

Pseudo strawman. People are rightfully upset about torture that takes place in other countries. People raise a big stink about the US doing it because we claim to be above the barbaric practices of other countries, yet we torture people anyway.

Lord Sander · Post by **Lord Sander** » 2003-03-07 04:25pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Beautiful how we all assume that because a few prisoners died we assume that it was torture by the US. How do we know that the prisoners werren't trying to escape or attack a guard?

If first they claim that they died of a heart attack and a pulmonary embolism and then say they actually died during interrogation by causing blunt force injuries and describing it as homicide, I think it's a fair bet it wasn't a legitimate and excusable action, or else they would have said the first time around that they died attacking a guard or attempting escape.

That's my 2 cents.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-07 04:40pm

Montcalm wrote:Its wierd if the Americans beat a prisoner to make him talk everyone gets upset,but if the other side does it noone talk,the so called geneva convention is not worth the kleenex its written on.

A good point, so called "rules of warfare" only seem to apply to America.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-03-07 04:46pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Montcalm wrote:Its wierd if the Americans beat a prisoner to make him talk everyone gets upset,but if the other side does it noone talk,the so called geneva convention is not worth the kleenex its written on.
A good point, so called "rules of warfare" only seem to apply to America.

The rules of warfare apply to the so called "civilized world", of which the U.S is part. There's no need to tell anybody that the taliban, Saddam and alike are blood thirsty savages who torture and kill their victims.

We like to think we're better than them.

That includes obeying to certain rules of conduct and engagement, knowing that the other side will not follow them.

When the war is over, we then proceed to judge them as criminals, warlords, rapists, murderers and genocidal maniacs.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-03-07 07:20pm

"So, I don't suppose you could give us some information on where the next attack will be? Oh, there's no hurry... Some more coffee?"

What did you expect? I'm not suprised we're torturing them... I'm just suprised that they actually caused the death of one. I was thinking they'd use methods that wouldn't leave marks...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-07 07:26pm

Montcalm wrote:Its wierd if the Americans beat a prisoner to make him talk everyone gets upset,but if the other side does it noone talk,the so called geneva convention is not worth the kleenex its written on.

Actually, the convention doesn;t protect al-Qa'ida nor does civilian law. Terrorist have no legal protections. The convention also states that if your enemy does not follow the treaty then you do not have to either. Neither the Taliban or al-Qa'ida follow the convention.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-03-07 08:36pm

FUCK THIS.

I still am recovering from the 3rd degree burns from the Geneva convention threads on ASVS from a YEAR AGO.

I'm not surprised in the slightest, but I am happy to see America's moral superiority to the terrorists rapidly diminishing.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-07 08:45pm

weemadando wrote:FUCK THIS.

I still am recovering from the 3rd degree burns from the Geneva convention threads on ASVS from a YEAR AGO.

I'm not surprised in the slightest, but I am happy to see America's moral superiority to the terrorists rapidly diminishing.

Why are you happy about that? I thought that you'd be upset!

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-03-07 08:49pm

Are the US going out of their way to break rules now?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-07 08:50pm

Gandalf wrote:Are the US going out of their way to break rules now?

The Geneva Conventions against torture do not apply to everyone, Gandalf. Sea Skimmer has already noted this.

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