size of the federation

[sunshine220]

Sorry if this have been ask before, if so could you flz post the link.

So the federation is 8000ly would that be as think as the galaxy 1000ly ?
Am trying to get a idea of how big that is and home many more fed size empire could be in the galaxy. 100000ly across

[Batman]

If you could be bothered to repost that in actual english, please?

[sunshine220]

400 billion stars in the galaxy even if 1% of those have planets that's a massive amount of resources

[Stark]

Here's a hint: compare circle areas. Google can do this for you.

Then realize '8000ly' is pretty meaningless and forget about it.

[sunshine220]

Srry english isn't my first language, yea I just did the area on google its pretty small . That's why I wanted to kno if its a cylinder shame 1000ly deep

[Batman]

To elaborate, 8000ly tells us that at some point in its territory along one axis, the Federation measures 8000ly from one end to the other. Without knowing the shape of the Federation that tells us jack all about its actual size. It could be a cube, a sphere, a tube, a cross, anything that somewhere is 8000ly from one end to the other. Volume is impossible to determine from that statement.

[Sea Skimmer]

The way Picard made that statement I believe was ‘spread across eight thousand light years’. That could mean the federation has at least one axis which is 8000ly long, it could also could reasonably mean that Federation territory is not even contiguous and that you can just find two points which are that far apart. Some very remote colonies may exist, with nothing or other people’s territory in-between them and the federation proper. Other then that we can say nothing, since so many questions exist about just the relative locations of the major empires. Half the time Cardassians and the Klingons/Romulans seem like they are on opposite sides of the federation for example, but then suddenly in DS9 the Klingons can skip right over to attacking the Cardassians. So who knows. Are the Klingons going 'over' or around the Federation? Or do they share a border? We can't answer questions like this.

[tim31]

Eight thousand square light years.

[Stark]

For all we know the Federation has some agreed metric for describing this; if expansion has been along a primary axis it might be conventional to describe the length of that axis as a way of talking about growth or success. But this doesn't tell us shot about the actual volume of the Federation's self-defined borders.

[Havok]

It would make sense that in a 3 dimensional space... such as space, that expansion would go out in all directions so as not to leave a glaring gap in defense... a giant blank spot that anything could come out of.

I would think that based on that any remarks such as Picard's 8000 light years would go out in all directions from Earth, possibly supported by the Sol System being designated Sector 0001.

[Darth Tedious]

The way Picard made that statement I believe was ‘spread across eight thousand light years’. That could mean the federation has at least one axis which is 8000ly long, it could also could reasonably mean that Federation territory is not even contiguous and that you can just find two points which are that far apart. Some very remote colonies may exist, with nothing or other people’s territory in-between them and the federation proper. Other then that we can say nothing, since so many questions exist about just the relative locations of the major empires. Half the time Cardassians and the Klingons/Romulans seem like they are on opposite sides of the federation for example, but then suddenly in DS9 the Klingons can skip right over to attacking the Cardassians. So who knows. Are the Klingons going 'over' or around the Federation? Or do they share a border? We can't answer questions like this.

Although pretty much every map representation of the UFP ever given has been 2D, this seems to be what is indicated, both from what tiny glimpses of maps we get in the show, and the vast stacks of dubious canonicity from various sources (books, games, etc.)

Here's what Google Images pulls up for "Star Trek Federation map". As you can see, the different maps are inconsistant (though that makes perfect sense depending on period), though there's always a similar theme going on. The UFP appears somewhat sparse, with tiny extensions that may even look like spikes or tendrils in 3D, bordering around frontier colonies.
If those maps are in any way 'accurate', the UFP does indeed share a border with the Klingon Empire, and it even has a few colonies that are on the opposite side of Klingon space from Earth.

[Juubi Karakuchi]

The way Picard made that statement I believe was ‘spread across eight thousand light years’. That could mean the federation has at least one axis which is 8000ly long, it could also could reasonably mean that Federation territory is not even contiguous and that you can just find two points which are that far apart. Some very remote colonies may exist, with nothing or other people’s territory in-between them and the federation proper. Other then that we can say nothing, since so many questions exist about just the relative locations of the major empires. Half the time Cardassians and the Klingons/Romulans seem like they are on opposite sides of the federation for example, but then suddenly in DS9 the Klingons can skip right over to attacking the Cardassians. So who knows. Are the Klingons going 'over' or around the Federation? Or do they share a border? We can't answer questions like this.

The nearest things to official maps are the Star Trek Online map (also the most recent) http://www.stowiki.org/images/f/fd/In-G ... xy_Map.png and Geoffrey Mandel's 'Star Charts.' There are some differences (STO has the Cardassian Union similar in size to the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Star Empire actually larger), but both have the Federation in the middle, the Romulans and the Klingons to the 'right', and the Cardassians to the 'left.'

As for how the Klingons reached DS9, there are two explanations. One is that the Klingons went over or around, while the other is that they simply slipped through while under cloak (the Klingon fleet decloaks as it arrives). The latter implies that Starfleet has relaxed its surveillance along the Klingon border (they and the Klingons being allies and all), or that Klingon cloaking technology has improved to the point that existing Starfleet surveillance gear couldn't detect the fleet, or a combination of the two.

[spaceviking]

Based on the OP, I think JasonB has a new user name.

[Enigma]

Based on the OP, I think JasonB has a new user name.

JasonB is not that smart.

OT, wasn't there a map floating around with the boundaries of each power in the ST universe?

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah, this sounds more like someone who thinks English is supposed to read like you're posting from a cell phone, ineptly.

[Batman]

With the emphasis on ineptly. And who in Valens name does one verify the size of the Federation on Google?

[Enigma]

With the emphasis on ineptly. And who in Valens name does one verify the size of the Federation on Google?

Well, type "Star Trek Map" in Google and one of the images is this, (linking the pic as the map is quite large) ST map.

I believe the map is a scan from a magazine.

[Eframepilot]

With the emphasis on ineptly. And who in Valens name does one verify the size of the Federation on Google?

Well, type "Star Trek Map" in Google and one of the images is this, (linking the pic as the map is quite large) ST map.

I believe the map is a scan from a magazine.

The Patriarchy? Is that the Kzin from Niven's Known Space? I'm pretty sure that their presence in Trek isn't canon, despite their appearance in the animated series.

[Stofsk]

Who cares if it's canon or not?

The tzenkethi from DS9 were based on the kzin and some other race, but Robert Hewit Wolfe pictured them as being sort-of lizard like, rather than the catpeople in 'The Slaver Weapon'.

[Connor MacLeod]

It seems an approximate fit for what we already know. 985 billion isn't far off from the 900 billion mentioned in DS9, and we know there were 150 member planets mentioned, so 180 fits too.

The 'affiliates' has no direct mention (other than a throwback mention to TOS and there being 1000 planets or something mentioned) but given the sheer population for the Federation I'd be surprised if they didn't have thousands of minor planets stuck away here and there.

It also tends to make the idea that starfleet has tens of thousands of ships more believable, especially since they usually go for a 'multi-role' nature (defense/exploration/transport/diplomacy all in one.)