SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

[Simon_Jester]

This thread is here as a quasi-pseudo-sorta-official discussion thread for SDNW5 issues. Here we can start to hammer out nation descriptions and backgrounds, figure out relationships between nations, and begin to think about astrography- how is the map laid out?

I don't want to rush this process, though, and I don't want to start drawing a map just yet. Among other things, I think we need some more time to argue over the interstellar travel rules- a novel suggestion that is seriously different from SDNW4 might well be a good idea, and if we change the travel rules, we change the way the map looks even before we start plunking countries down.

I also want to put in a description of the game for people who are new to the SDNW series, and ask a question: is there anyone else that anyone would like to nominate to moderate the game, either instead of me or along with me? I know there hasn't been a lot of discussion about whether I should be doing this, and I want to make sure people have time and chances to weigh in- either against having me as a mod, or for it if they think I'd do a good job.

[Simon_Jester]

What SDNW5 Is

SDNW5 is a game in which players take control of interstellar nations of their own design, interacting across a large map. The emphasis is on collaborative storytelling and (if desired) role-playing.

The rules are relatively basic, mathematically simple, and designed to allow maximum flexibility: almost anything you can imagine as an interstellar society can work with the SDNW5 rules. The main purpose of the rules is to ensure that all nations compete on roughly equivalent footings- there is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ way for an SDNW5 government to operate, or for an SDNW5 military to be equipped. As far as the rules are concerned, things like mechanisms of government and military equipment are abstracted away and do not matter.

While warfare is accepted as part of the game, it is far from the only way nations and players can interact. We want to encourage you to have ideas for how your nation will behave in peacetime- who are its friends? What will its people do, what kind of reputations will they make for themselves on the galactic stage?

For those of you who followed, observed, or were briefly interested in SDNW4, the current intent is to more or less replicate SDNW4, hopefully with some minor reforms to make play more fun and longer-lasting. If you chose not to join SDNW4, this would be a good time for you to look at the next game and consider coming in.


Where SDNW5 Came From

SDNW5 is the fifth in a series of games that originated as perhaps the most successful “RAR!” thread ever created by the SDN poster “Zor.” The original was titled “SDN World;” I refer to it by the back-invented acronym “SDNW1.”

Others may dispute the details of this chronicle. It is not meant to be judgmental, but to provide background for those joining the game- here is what has been learned from earlier games, and tried in the past.

The first game featured the Star Trek entity Q contacting various SDN posters and giving them control of modern-era nations on a parallel world, with geography and cultures different from those of Earth. As usual, the various posters’ nations had strength and resources determined by a formula based largely on post count. Many strange and hilarious things took place in the game as it evolved. This evolved into a role-playing thread. Alliances were formed and broken, libertopians were mocked and invaded, and there was much rejoicing.

SDN World/SDNW1 came to a fiery end in a massive thermonuclear war after Shep got twitchy. A lesson was learned.


There was widespread consensus among the players that they should try again. This time, Shep would not be allowed a nuclear arsenal. This became known as “SDN World Redux” or “SDNW2.” Once again, players detailed nations on an alternate world known as “Nova Terra,” again set in the modern day except without the nukes. Once again, national strength would be roughly determined by post count. The Duchess of Zeon acted as moderator for a portion of the game, though she later abdicated the position.

Several new players joined the SDNW2 roster, and some of the old SDNW1 players chose not to participate. The wackiness resumed. However, a number of factors led to the formation of two major power blocs, known as “MESS” and “CATO,” the latter being especially wacky in that its (moral?) center was located with the nation of Shroomania.

This time, Shep did not bring about a nuclear holocaust, as the nation of Shepistan was not permitted nuclear capability. He had to make do with biowarfare, which did not engulf the globe and bring an early end to the game.

Eventually, SDNW2 petered out, with considerable bad blood between some of the MESS and CATO members. A lesson was learned.


After a time and simultaneous with the writing of some epilogues (see “Prime Noir”), the new game SDNW3 was created.

Once again, top priority went to ensuring Shep could not have nuclear arsenal, or indeed weapons of mass destruction of any kind. For this and a number of other reasons, SDNW3 was set on a parallel Earth circa 1925, using basically real-like nations and cultures, but with slightly different history. It was also agreed that basing national strength on post count was bluntly stupid, so the post count system was replaced by an elaborate nation-building system which rated a country’s size and strength relative to a large number of numerical scores.

National navies were a particular subject of interest, and players were encouraged to design warships in detail using actual simulation codes. The result: a detailed ship construction/design thread which exceeded the entire in-character post thread in length. The ensuing battleship arms race swiftly catapulted SDNW3 warship designs beyond any big-gun battleships ever built in the history of real Earth, leading to battleships great enough to make the infamous battleship Yamato cry for its mommy.

SDNW3 ended with Thanas bestriding Europe like a colossus, a desultory and unpleasant war in the Far East, and various other things going on around the globe. In hindsight, it was somewhat less of a success than SDNW2. Lessons were learned.


The playerbase rallied once again to create SDNW4. This time, it was decided to use a less complicated and restrictive ruleset, as the complex rules of SDNW3 were seen as something of an obstacle. It was tentatively decided that Shep could be trusted with nuclear weapons again, IF no one else had to live on the same planet as him. For this and a number of other reasons, SDNW4 was to be set in space amid interstellar civilizations, as opposed to the planetary modern/1920s settings of SDNW1 through 3.

My own participation in the SDNW series began with SDNW4, and I’m happy I was able to join. The wackiness of past SDNW games resumed, often on a larger, grander, and stranger scale. There were nuclear space bears, cyberpunks, telepaths, giant birdies, entire regions of space dominated largely by anime references, and all manner of other things. Personally I enjoyed it very much, and I believe most of the other active players did too. Eventually, after some of the moderators originally appointed to the game left for personal reasons, I was appointed as one of the game moderators, which is why I am now taking point

However, SDNW4 eventually petered out too, mostly due to complications arising from a major war. There was some talk of revising the game map and injecting fresh blood into the game, but this came to nothing. Now, after some months of inactivity, we are beginning SDNW5.

[White Haven]

Just to weigh in, Simon has my support as a moderator. Not at all adverse to adding one or two more to spread the load and allow for recusing, but that's neither here nor there.

[Simon_Jester]

Er, thanks for the vote of confidence.

Um. Anyway.

OK. [rolls dices] the beginnings of a list of rolls:

Esquire:
Hellenic Confederacy- 9

OmegaChief:
Capellan Authority- 4

Simon_Jester:
Technocracy of Umeria- 7

White Haven:
League of Thought- 8

[OmegaChief]

*Shifts talk to this thread*

Ah a 4! Well no worries, the Authority were meant to be (reletevily, specifics probably depend on what sort of timeline we go for) newcomers to the galactic scene anyway, a smaller amount fo NCP makes sense for that.

[Simon_Jester]

Er, question:

What do you mean by "newcomers?" Relatively recent colonists of their region of space, but has established relationships with its neighbors? A nation that got randomly teleported from who knows where?

I'm a little leery of having too many nations that teleport in from nowhere; that didn't go well in SDNW4.

[OmegaChief]

I mean reletivly! As in thier soceity only has say 3,000 years of history compared to the average civilsations (For the purposes of this example) 5,000 years, ergo they've jsut not ahd the same amount of time to expand as everyone else.

[Simon_Jester]

Ah. So. Nonhuman species? Good. We can always use them; last game we had a ridiculous number of human polities compared to nonhuman.

[OmegaChief]

Well you did encourage us to go with something non-standard after all, so I took that and ran with it, I'll work on like a little intro to them to post up soemtime in the next week or so to let you have a look at them.

[KhorneFlakes]

I'm interested in rejoining, this time as a different nation. Part of the reason the Taiidan storyline died out was simply because of stress, work and such, and the fact that Kartr was simply not avaliable enough for me to talk to him. I was hoping for a interesting Taiidan/Hiigaran dynamic, but in the end it died out.

So, I am rejoining as the Screworlders, a bunch of mad postaliens dropped off by the main government in the game area of SDNW5 because they were too much trouble. Expect much sillyness, in the vain of Bragulans and the Elysians, Simon.

I'm hoping that since they're not related to any of the other nations, and since my headache plague has finally rolled up and died, I can write my own place in the in-game cosmos.

Still not sure about OOB and other stuff, though. I'm still writing the fluff. So, Simon, if you are avaliable, can I catch you sometime for a chat on AIM? I'd like to know what your plans are for SDNW5.

[Force Lord]

The Centrality will return, of course.

EDIT: Requesting dice roll.

[Esquire]

Gentlemen, the Hellenic Confederacy:


Hellenic Confederacy
34 NCP
$67,000 GDP

Political Institutions
The Hellenic Confederacy (also called Hellas, denonym Hellenes, Confederates) is a loose alliance of culturally-related states, ranging in size from parts of continents to multisystem empires. Each state is referred to as a polity. The polities send delegates appointed according to their individual constitutions to the Assembly of Confederates at the temple of Pythian Apollo on Delphi, where issues are put to a simple vote – one state, one vote. The Assembly is presided over and moderated by an Archon elected from among the delegates by a simple majority vote at the start of every legislative session, which last for five years. The democratic form of the interpolity government is slightly deceptive; a few powerful polities are nearly almost able to attract clusters of votes large enough to obviate the opinions of smaller, less important ones. The extremely limited nature of the Confederate government keeps the weaker polities from being dominated by the ones in control of it, as does the fact that if one polity tried to conquer the others overtly, it would be destroyed by the combined forces of the rest of the Confederacy.
The main duties of the Confederacy are foreign affairs, mediation of internal disputes, providing aid in severe disasters (natural or otherwise), and the operation of the Hellenic Confederate Navy and Army. These last two draw recruits from every polity, and is funded by contributions the polities make according to their size and GDP. The largest polities provide not money but warships and troops. These ships and soldiers are not members of the Confederate armed forces, exactly, but rather of their own polity’s Army or Navy seconded to them. All direct (i.e, not national personnel seconded) recruits take an oath to serve the Confederacy before their polity, which is the main difference between Confederate personnel and those from the national navies—there is no expectation that members of, for example, the Delphian navy would follow an order to abandon Delphi to an invasion in order to protect another polity.

Cultural and Religious Institutions
The Hellenic polities that make up the Confederacy share a culture and a religion that set them apart from the rest of the galaxy. Hellenes worship a pantheon of gods remarkably similar to those of the ancient Greeks on Earth, but the Hellenic worlds were not settled from Earth, at least as far as can be determined. The earliest settlements Hellenic archaeology has uncovered are prehistoric ones in a region on Delphi called ‘the Islands of the Blessed,’ just off the largest continent. From there, it appears, settlement spread across Delphi and to the rest of the Hellenic worlds—but without any parallel efforts by other cultures; the Hellenic civilization that came to dominate Delphi was the only one on the planet.
The pantheon of gods, goddesses, and heroes is extremely diverse. There exists a minor divinity for nearly every aspect of life, simple or complicated, and a hero for nearly every place, however insignificant. All the major gods of the ancient Earth religion are present, Zeus, Athena, Poseidon, and so on, along with the great heroes such as Heracles. Their worship is directed by priests of various stripes, some of whom inherit their positions and some of whom are appointed to them by their polity. The main function of the priesthood is to perform sacrifices and to conduct the festivals that serve as the great unifying force of Hellenic culture. Most polities observe at least one festival unique to it, one unique to their ‘tribe’ (either Doric, Aeolic, or Ionic; subgroups of Hellenes that trace their ancestry to one of the cities founded in the initial diaspora from the Islands of the Blessed and that city’s colonies), and the Pan-Hellenic festivals such as the Olympic Games, the Confederate Dionysia, and others.
Perhaps because of the importance religious observance plays in the average Hellene’s life, Hellas never developed science the same way as the other human civilizations did. They hold to the idea that all things are composed of fire, water, dust, and air, in various proportions and subtypes. Somehow this hasn’t stopped Hellene natural philosophers from competing on an equal level with more traditional scientists.

Interstellar Warfare
The design and typical tactics of Hellenic ships vary widely from polity to polity. There are, however, similarities along tribal lines: Aeolic ships tend to be fast and cheap, befitting their history as pirates both terrestrial and interstellar. Aeolic commanders make great use of fighters and distracting maneuvers to split enemy fleets into manageable chunks and then concentrate their faster ships to destroy exposed foes. Doric ships, on the other hand, are typically heavily-armed brawlers able to stand a frightening amount of punishment before succumbing. This is a good thing, as the Doric naval stereotype is one of inflexible commanders and captains willing to die rather than consider retreating, even when the occasion would not merit such stubbornness. Ionic ships tend to be somewhere in between and Ionic shipbuilders and commanders are often inventive and willing to use their ships’ flexibility to the utmost.
All Hellene ships use roughly equivalent technology. The sublight particle drives common to all polities are capable of providing fantastic amounts of energy, though their potential is limited in practice because of the dangers of going beyond certain safety limits: the particle drive works by smashing subatomic particles into each other and directing the resulting energy against superdense deflector paddles to vector or push the ship. The particle cannon used by many warships are merely another application of the same principles, with a stream of charged particles being directed against the hull or shields of the enemy. Most cannon add a visible ‘tracer’ effect, to ease targeting should the ship’s computers be knocked out during battle. The power required for such systems is provided by an antimatter reactor which uses hydrogen to enable refueling in most planetary environments.
Oddly, Hellene warships are described by the number of engines assemblies they possess, rather than their size or class. Generally, larger Hellene ships have more engines than smaller ones, but even here there is confusion: a ‘pentekonter’ is a type of light corvette in the Corcyraean Republican Navy, and draws its name from the fifty ion drive ports on the vessel’s stern. Normally, such a ship would be called a monoreme, from single assemblage of engines.

Planetary and Stellar Warfare
Unlike naval warfare, Hellenic armies are largely similar, perhaps because martial virtue is an important part of Hellenic culture. While the traditional idea of warriors fighting duels for the prize of their opponent’s armor has had little application since Delphi’s Iron Age, Hellenic soldiers are noteworthy for their courage and ferocity. Modern power armor, ironically, has done much to return Hellene ground warfare to its traditional roots: the shield systems of light power armor suits are mutually-reinforcing, so units cluster together in a cross between an ancient phalanx and an almost-as-old Napoleonic firing line, and heavier types of armor (called hoplahero-on in Hellenic, or battlemechs in the rest of the galaxy) allow for duels straight out of the myths. Armor design reflects these mythic origins, with horsehair crests and brightly-colored cloaks being essential parts of at least the dress uniforms of Hellenic armies.

Major Polities
Delphi is a single-system polity that occupies the planet Delphi, numerous orbital habitats and industrial facilities, a partially-terraformed planet called Doria farther out in the system (also called Delphi), and Doria’s naturally-habitable moon Zephyr. Its population includes members of all tribes, most of whom live in conditions that would be called ‘first world’ on Earth. Delphi’s heavy industry is largely orbital or underground, giving its worlds a pristine appearance out of place for the closest thing Hellas has to a capital. There is a warp gate at one of the Lagrange points of Delphi and Zephyr, which is operated jointly by the major polities.

Lacedaemon was the first Hellenic colony founded, using sleeper ships. It grew very quickly, both due to the fact that Delphi spared no expense on the initial expedition and due to its first leader, Lycurgus. As colonial governor he established a strict meritocracy unlike any other Hellenic government and focused disposable income on the creation of a navy, which allowed Lacedaemon to establish its independence from Delphi very quickly. It controls two systems, Lacedaemon and Boeotia. Inhabited planets and moons in Lacedaemon include Sparta, Tegea, and Aegina, while Boeotia contains the planet Thebes and its moons Plataea and Livadeia. The population of Lacedaemon is mostly of the Doric and Aeolic tribes.

Attica is a two-system polity of very unusual topography. The Athens system contains no planets but for a trio of gas giants, whose moons are in varying stages of terraforming. The moons are split into eight groups—“demes”—of roughly-equal numbers and population which elect representatives to the Attic Assembly. The other Attic system is Piraeus, a much more typical system with a naturally-habitable planet and a very large asteroid belt rich in minerals. One would expect Piraeus to be densely habituated, but the Attic people prefer their demes to planetary living, and Piraeus is used mostly for mining, food production, and naval facilities. Citizens are referred to as Attics or Athenians interchangeably. Attica is largely Ionic.

Corcyra was founded by exiles from Delphi just after the Hellenes discovered FTL drives. Its inhabitants soon turned to piracy to supplement their existences on barely-habitable Alkinoos, and so developed a powerful navy out of proportion to their population or wealth. It was only with the aid of Lacedaemonian warships that Corcyra was subdued by Delphi in what was called the Corcyraean War. Lacedaemon promptly allied with Corcyra and helped terraform the planet Corcyra to more human-friendly standards than Alkinoos, removing much of the reason for the piracy in the first place. Alkinoos is now mostly uninhabited except for the Corcyraean fleet bases scattered around the surface. The Corcyraean are Aeolic, mainly, with some Doric-descended citizens as well.

Corinth is polity controlling a system and planet of the same name. Corinth was settled from Lacedaemon after the Corcyraean War, a product of growing Lacedaemonian power and influence. While it was a close ally of Lacedaemon for many years, Corinth never adopted the Lacedaemonian social structure and so drifted apart from its founder. Corinth is usually seen as something of a spokesman for the smaller polities, and is the smallest polity to contribute ships and troops to the Confederacy, rather than money. Corinthians are almost without exception Doric.

Sectors
Oikos is the home sector of the Hellenes. Its five populated systems are divided between the polities of Delphi, Lacedaemon, and Attica.
Pyrgos is a core sector home to Corinth, as well as many minor polities that do not exceed a continent in size.
Okyro is a core sector, like Pyrgos. It includes Corcyra, and the sector shares the piratical tone of its most influential polity, even respectable traders cultivating a roguish air.
Basidzo is a midrange sector divided between minor polities who contribute money, rather than warships to the Confederacy.
Limenas is another midrange sector containing no large polities.
Korio is another midrange sector containing no large polities.
Toikos is another mirange sector containing no large polities.
Fylakio is a colonial sector recently settled from Corinth and Delphi, in a joint project. Its inhabitants are mainly Doric with a significant Aeolic minority, and the sector in general has so far displayed a much more independent attitude than its founders would like.
Frourio was an independent nation until ten years ago, when the religious extremism of its government irritated the larger polities enough that they forcibly integrated it into the Confederacy and replaced the ruling priestly class with a democracy. The former rulers fought as fiercely as fanatics dedicated to Ares can be expected to, and the state of the sector is barely on par with Fylakio.

2 NCP remain, for trade routes or GDP increases. OOB and more details to follow.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

I fully expect the fates to deal me another bad hand and leave me with far less industrial capacity than I would need, but I'll give it another go.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm definitely interested in joining this with a micronation.

[Scottish Ninja]

I think I might jump in; I've got some ideas but I still need some time to work them out that I probably won't really have tonight.

[Simon_Jester]

I think I might jump in; I've got some ideas but I still need some time to work them out that I probably won't really have tonight.

Good to have you. Give me a name and I'll give you a roll.

I'm definitely interested in joining this with a micronation.

Are you sure you don't want a macronation instead? If you have a micronation in mind, of course, we can certainly go for it. Micronations typically have less than 5 NCPs (at the very high end), more like 1 or 2 (for moderately civilized and affluent but small interstellar or single-planet polities) ranging down to "less than 1" for single planets in second-galaxy and third-galaxy sectors. Depending on what you have in mind, well. Take your pick.

I fully expect the fates to deal me another bad hand and leave me with far less industrial capacity than I would need, but I'll give it another go.

Apparently not- the dice have decided to be kind. I ask that you not betray their capricious blessing.

Er, are you joining as the Holy Empire of Haruhi Suzumiya, or as some other entity?

The Centrality will return, of course.

Surely you mean "strike back?" Returning is for Silver Moonies...

I'm interested in rejoining, this time as a different nation. Part of the reason the Taiidan storyline died out was simply because of stress, work and such, and the fact that Kartr was simply not avaliable enough for me to talk to him. I was hoping for a interesting Taiidan/Hiigaran dynamic, but in the end it died out.

So, I am rejoining as the Screworlders, a bunch of mad postaliens dropped off by the main government in the game area of SDNW5 because they were too much trouble. Expect much sillyness, in the vain of Bragulans and the Elysians, Simon.

I'm hoping that since they're not related to any of the other nations, and since my headache plague has finally rolled up and died, I can write my own place in the in-game cosmos.

Still not sure about OOB and other stuff, though. I'm still writing the fluff. So, Simon, if you are avaliable, can I catch you sometime for a chat on AIM? I'd like to know what your plans are for SDNW5.

There is no main government in the game area. There are merely bickering loonystates. Of course, it's possible that in the distant past your alienoids were exiled to the far reaches of known space by some specific government, and simply decided to turn into a major industrialized nation over the next several centuries out of sheer spite. Not unlike the entire nation of Australia, now that I think about it...

And, hm. My plans? All is primordial chaos- I have no plans.

Yes, you can write your own place, although once we get neighbors and stuff written out I'll want you to come up with a history of your interactions with neighbors more extensive than "um, we were isolationists!" Also, since you did have a habit of total inactivity in the last game (not entirely your fault, I know), I think you'd better go somewhere on the periphery- I'll make sure you've got some worthwhile neighbors, but I don't want to risk you choking out space in the center of things.

[Simon_Jester]

Darkevilme:
Chamarran Empire
10

Esquire:
Hellenic Confederacy
9

Force Lord:
Centrality
7

KhorneFlakes
Screworlders
6

OmegaChief:
Capellan Authority
4

Shinn Langley Soryu
Holy Empire of Haruhi Suzumiya?
10

Simon_Jester:
Technocracy of Umeria
7

White Haven:
League of Thought
8

[OmegaChief]

Wow Shinn, looks like the unvierse is throwing you a bone for once XD

[KhorneFlakes]

Well, I meant they got dumped over in the game area by their government, but that works too, I suppose...

[TimothyC]

(The Kryptonian Empire) as a Mini-nation.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Wow Shinn, looks like the unvierse is throwing you a bone for once XD

Certainly seems like it. Looks like I'll be confirming my entry as the Holy Empire of Haruhi Suzumiya, then.

[Darkevilme]

The Hierarchy will return and demands a dice roll. I am praying for a high roll in order to be an adept and agile nation or whatever Simon's term was.

[Simon_Jester]

Edited in and, what can I say, you lucked out.

[KhorneFlakes]

Anyone want a trade route? Putting one in using my remaining 2 NCP.

[Simon_Jester]

Why don't we wait until the map is drawn for that, so you know who all your options are and what neighbors you'll have? Allocate to yourself the 2000$/year for the trade route itself, and just hold off on figuring out whether you get a 500$ bonus for reciprocity.

That's what I did drawing up the Technocracy. Speaking of which...