OEEG In a Mirror Darkly

[Ahriman238]

Chuck's latest Enteprise Review Here.

I admit to enjoying this episode greatly, I actually liked a fair bit of Enteprise's last season, even if there some pretty stupid plot twists. It was a hoot to have an evil archer fighting a gorn, striding around the TOS bridge, etc. Plus eveyone's planning to betray everyone else.

Then again, maybe it was just Hoshi and T'Pol's uniforms.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The fact that this is the only episode in all of Star Trek to not feature ANY of the actual characters kept me amsued for some time. Aside from that, it's an excellent episode, even if the ending of part II was very abrupt. I always got the impression they were going to do part 3 but then didn't.

[Captain Seafort]

I always got the impression they were going to do part 3 but then didn't.

I thought they were planning to do "part 3" during series 5, which was still on at the time.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It would have been interesting to see. But oh well.

[Sidewinder]

The line that Brannon & Braga's vision for Enterprise is almost identical to the Mirror Universe's portrayal- i.e., Archer is evil but stupid, Phlox is evil and sadistic, T'Pol is a manipulative whore- really gets to me. Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK were those two yahoos thinking?!

[JME2]

The short story "Age of the Empress" from the Glass Empires anthology picks up seconds after the end of the episode.

Original episode writer Mike Sussman provided the plot (elements which were likely planned for Season 5) while Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore wrote it. It does a pretty good job of continuing the duology while transitioning the ENT-era Terran Empire into what Kirk and company will encounter a century later.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Indeed, it's a good story. I like the way they deal with Starfleet Command.

Although on the subject of Glass Empires, the Spock story is excellent. I strongly recommend it to anyone.

[FaxModem1]

Yes, Sorrows of Empire is probably the strongest of the Mirror Universe stories. And I love almost all of the Mirror Universe. Except for the New Frontier ones, but that might just be because I never read those books.

I love Chuck's Mirror Janeway, it had me laughing rather loudly.

[Lord Revan]

Tbh I don't think B&B were activly trying to make the ENT chars the way they ended up, they just suck at making "cool" characters mainly cause they don't know when they've crossed the line from "cool and edgy" to "outright evil"

as for the episode it's quite amazing how they managed to get the 60s sets and designs still look more advanced then the NX-01, the story and characters were a bit meh though.

great review though, I liked how Chuck commented on the absurdity of an empire where everyone was constantly trying to backstab each other.

[Ahriman238]

Honestly, of everyone one ENT Hoshi interested me the most. It got grating that she was terrified of every damn thing you'd be likely to encounter on a spaceship or an alien world, but at least she got some character growth from it all.

That lasted until the next time they wanted a Hoshi must overcome her fears story, granted.

[spaceviking]

great review though, I liked how Chuck commented on the absurdity of an empire where everyone was constantly trying to backstab each other.

It has been a while since I saw the other mirror universe episodes, was the constant backstabbing unique to the enterprise episodes?

Also something Chick did not mention, why are their so many people in the ship. Like the scene where Archer and the mirror captain walk past and they are saluted. It was not like a ceremony, just people standing ready to salute.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Wellg vien how many people get killed in the mutiny and counter mutiny a large screw would seem to be a necessity. Plus, this alternate Enterprise clearly has a hefty MACO complement aboard that will add to the numbers.

[spaceviking]

a large screw would seem to be a necessity.

Well they have mirror Hoshi

[Eternal_Freedom]

Thats a rather unfortunate typo for the circumstances. I meant a large crew of course. We see only a handful of escape pods make it out of the Enterprise a=which holds about 40 of the crew. Thats about half the ordinary Enterprise crew from only a few escape pods. Suggests a much larger crew.

[Zor]

Part two is up

Zor

[Ahriman238]

Part 2 up.

I never once considered before that the Terran Empire didn't fall apart until Spock tried to stop all the ridiculous backstabbing.

[Purple]

That does bring up an interesting thought thou. Perhaps the mirror universe is not "mirror" because the characters are polar opposites (since many are not) but because the way things work is. For some reason, some law of existence there dictates that things that are logical and sane here don't work out there and vice versa. Somehow the fact that their insanity (from our perspective) is so insane (backstab empire) balances it self out and turns out right. And an attempt to break said insanity with something that from our perspective resembles sanity breaks things.

[JME2]

Part 2 up.

I never once considered before that the Terran Empire didn't fall apart until Spock tried to stop all the ridiculous backstabbing.

I strongly recommend reading the novel The Sorrow of Empire, which was mentioned earlier in the thread. It examines how Spock's attempts at reform led to the downfall, but it also drops revelations that completely changes the dynamic of the DS9-era Mirror Universe.

That does bring up an interesting thought thou. Perhaps the mirror universe is not "mirror" because the characters are polar opposites (since many are not) but because the way things work is. For some reason, some law of existence there dictates that things that are logical and sane here don't work out there and vice versa. Somehow the fact that their insanity (from our perspective) is so insane (backstab empire) balances it self out and turns out right. And an attempt to break said insanity with something that from our perspective resembles sanity breaks things.

You reminded me of some of my original thoughts from this episode.

Something I liked was the revelation of where the Mirror Universe's timeline diverged from the Prime Reality's timeline: Cochrane's warp flight. There had been an subtle implication in First Contact that the episode confirmed, at least for me.

That implication was that the Federation's existence was a predestination paradox. Riker, LaForge, and the others showed Cochrane what his warp flight would lead to. If they hadn't, then he would have approached the Vulcans with a sense of greed and fear, not curiosity and awe. It gives an added irony to the Borg's time traveling shenanigans, since the attempt to eliminate their enemy instead ensured its existence.

[Ahriman238]

You reminded me of some of my original thoughts from this episode.

Something I liked was the revelation of where the Mirror Universe's timeline diverged from the Prime Reality's timeline: Cochrane's warp flight. There had been an subtle implication in First Contact that the episode confirmed, at least for me.

That implication was that the Federation's existence was a predestination paradox. Riker, LaForge, and the others showed Cochrane what his warp flight would lead to. If they hadn't, then he would have approached the Vulcans with a sense of greed and fear, not curiosity and awe. It gives an added irony to the Borg's time traveling shenanigans, since the attempt to eliminate their enemy instead ensured its existence.

That's possible, and suprisingly plausible. A closed time-loop, like Terminator before the sequels.

This is going to sound strange, but I actually sort of prefer the Shatnerverse explanation for the Mirror Universe to the canon version. In his books, Cochrane had a bizarre immunity to drugs used to erase his and Lily's memories (we odn't see them erasing the memories, but its a sensible precaution) naturally, he's too canny to start raving about starships from the future and his epic-scale statue, but he does make a coin toss to decide whether or not to warn the Vulcans about the Borg.

Thus, the EMpire agreesively expanded, sought out, and eventually destroyed the Borg. It seemed a better explanation for how the mirror universe is always as technologically advanced or more so than the fdereation than that a single ship from Kirk's time was sent back in time to them and they made no improvements or new discoveries besides the Tantalus field (which was probably a one-off) in a century.

[PREDATOR490]

Meh, episode was ok but it kinda says something when you literally had to go into an alternate universe to make a good episode that has ABSOLUTLY NO CONNECTION to the ACTUAL 'real' show.

I kept wondering when the REAL universe was going to show up... and we dont get anything. This might as well have been the pilot for a mirror universe series spin-off. Its fun in that it establishes the MU history... but even then it ends abruptly to the point its a waste.

"Mwhahaha... I am Queen Hoshi... in charge of a super ship that I just killed the previous owner for... and he killed the other guy for. I can totally see myself being able to control an empire full of people that kill each other on a whim... then again I have tits and a revealing uniform so... maybe I will last."

Unlikely to say the least and extremely stupid. Vulcan bitch's acting is rather... wierd as well.
They went overboard in dolling her up and then have her being almost leacherous at everything she does.