SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

[Simon_Jester]

If you want, you can. Honestly that was a joke, though, and I don't know much of anything about Romulans, so I certainly wouldn't hold you to "Romulan Republic" as your micronation. Or macronation, if you want one; that would be cool too and we're far from being overcrowded in the game.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

...A handful of Brags making cameo appearances doing whatever? One wonders just what exactly those Brags are up to. Scouting out the greater galaxy in preparation for an invasion, perhaps, or (more likely) something significantly more mundane...

[Karmic Knight]

Am I missing any would-be micronation players? Or for that matter macronation players?

You are missing a macronation player in myself. I rolled a 7 and the nation's name is The Commonwealth.

[irishmick79]

ah, roger that. I was thinking of a micronation given the geographic difficulties.

As far as foreign relations go, The Republic's relationships with neighboring sectors and systems can be described, in a word, as fitful. Telkin's emergence as a major banking and corporate hub has blunted the concerns over its extradition laws, which have brought Telkin to the brink of war on various occasions. Past Telkin administrations have managed to avoid full confrontation largely by skillfully applying varying combinations of bribery and blackmail. With numerous intergalactic criminal orginzations essentially operating in the open on Telkin, Telkin has become a major source of intelligence for neighboring systems wishing to learn more about their activities.

The Monarchy - Telkin has established a constitutional monarchy divided into an Executive branch ruled by the royal family, an elected parliament, and a judiciary. A parliament confirms the actions of the King, as well as confirms his ascencion to the throne. In peace time, the King functions more as a Prime Minister than an absolute monarch, fostering political allies with various factions and engaging in a normal legislative process. In times of great national crisis, the King can ask for emergency powers. These powers, if granted by parliament, essentially imbue the King with absolute authority.

Currently, there is no established king and Telkin is ruled by a Guardian Council of six members, two nominated by the royal family, two nominated by the parliament, and two nominated by the judiciary. The Grand Prince Wade Reckman has yet to be confirmed by parliament as king, largely due to his own demonstrated lack of interest in governance until his father's death.

[Simon_Jester]

Take any wacky Bragulan ideas up with Shroom first; they're his toys and he's decided to take a lot of them home with him, so I don't want him holding me responsible for someone else still playing with the rest of them. I like wacky Bragulan ideas, but I'm not trying to steal them out from under Shroom.

Am I missing any would-be micronation players? Or for that matter macronation players?

You are missing a macronation player in myself. I rolled a 7 and the nation's name is The Commonwealth.

Sorry, I'll fix that.

ah, roger that. I was thinking of a micronation given the geographic difficulties.

Does the existence of shoals (see interstellar travel rules) affect any of your ideas?

Also, question about the Telkin government: the monarch is 'head of the executive,' right? Does that mean that the ministers responsible for routine operations of government are chosen by the monarchy?

What is the highest level at which promotion through the government runs along 'civil service' lines, instead of being staffed by royal appointees? That may be the highest level at which you get really high-grade governance on Telkin, depending on how royal appointments work and/or what the current council of regents is trying to do with their power over the state.

Does the state make any serious effort to make sure children in the royal succession have any real administrative ability?

Then again, being lacking in those departments might explain how Telkin turned into a tax shelter and haven for organized crime in the first place...

[Skywalker_T-65]

Also missed me. Incidentally name change: The Republic of Arcadia... the old one just sounded weird after I thought about it. I'm currently on a research binge (rules, stuff like that) but once I have finished that I can get a true backstory worked up. More to come later.

[Simon_Jester]

I'll roll you a number and put you in too, in due time.

Military creation rules are not yet up and won't be for some time (I want people to have time to comment on and suggest changes to the travel rules, which are more important anyway).

Just make sure none of your ships are armed with unguided torpedoes. Some Lukes just shouldn't be switching off their targeting computers.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Actually you already rolled me a number a while back (5). So that isn't needed. And when I mean 'research' I mean the stuff that is already up. A military isn't even worrying me right now, since I need to work up the nation itself first . That being said, I've almost finished reading the basic stuff, so I should have something up in a couple hours (unless something comes up that takes up my time.

[irishmick79]

Take any wacky Bragulan ideas up with Shroom first; they're his toys and he's decided to take a lot of them home with him, so I don't want him holding me responsible for someone else still playing with the rest of them. I like wacky Bragulan ideas, but I'm not trying to steal them out from under Shroom.

Am I missing any would-be micronation players? Or for that matter macronation players?

You are missing a macronation player in myself. I rolled a 7 and the nation's name is The Commonwealth.

Sorry, I'll fix that.

ah, roger that. I was thinking of a micronation given the geographic difficulties.

Does the existence of shoals (see interstellar travel rules) affect any of your ideas?

Also, question about the Telkin government: the monarch is 'head of the executive,' right? Does that mean that the ministers responsible for routine operations of government are chosen by the monarchy?

What is the highest level at which promotion through the government runs along 'civil service' lines, instead of being staffed by royal appointees? That may be the highest level at which you get really high-grade governance on Telkin, depending on how royal appointments work and/or what the current council of regents is trying to do with their power over the state.

Does the state make any serious effort to make sure children in the royal succession have any real administrative ability?

Then again, being lacking in those departments might explain how Telkin turned into a tax shelter and haven for organized crime in the first place...

Ok, the shoals rules definitely helps me clarify my ideas a bit. Basically, what I was envisioning was a sector with maybe one or two chokepoint entryways and the rest of the space to be virtually impassable. Attacking the sector would require a direct frontal assault on a heavily defended position through terrain that limits the amount of firepower available to the attacker. These geographic benefits would also be a key reason that Telkin has been able to avoid war and why angry neighbors would find themselves more amenable to Telkin's offers of bribery and blackmail.

The highest positions in government ministries are appointed by the Royal family, but are confirmed by parliament. Borking a Royal nominee is extremely rare, and would precipitate a serious confrontation between the parliament and executive. In return for their virtually guaranteed approval, the Royal family considers and nominates candidates for top positions recommended by parliament. It would be extraordinarily unusual for a monarch to completely ignore any candidates recommended by parliament. Without such an appointment, the most senior positions available would be akin to deputy ministers. It is not frequent but not unheard of for royal appointees to resign their posts in favor of exceptionally skilled deputies.

Parliament is an elected body, and consequently dominated by the corporate interests. It is very difficult, almost impossible to mount successful political campaigns against the combined muscle of the organized crime and corporate entities. Extensive corruption exists in the parliament, and elections are almost never won fair and square.

The state provides excellent education and preparation to royal family members who demonstrate a willingness to engage in governmental affairs. Family members who don't show such a willingness generally find themselves becoming extraordinarily wealthy playboys or debutants, with little real purpose or role in government. Consequently, the quality of royal administration is uneven, and largely dependent upon the drive and dedication of the reigning monarch. In Reckman's case, he grew up a party boy and got himself into lots of trouble as a youth, but retained considerable political influence largely due to his position as the sole direct heir to the throne. Parliament has been withholding confirmation largely out of concerns about his (numerous) youthful indiscretions and his "temperment" for rule. Reckman has much to prove, and doesn't even have the full support of the Royal family backing him. Reckman remains the strongest claimant to the throne and no candidate has emerged as of yet to challenge him.

The Guardian Council is currently badly split, with the parliamentary interests sensing an opportunity to weaken the monarchy and reassert their control over Telkinian affairs. The two reps of the royal family are tasked with preserving royal perogative while settling the succession dispute within the family.

[OmegaChief]

And the Authority post has been updated! Come read and provide feedback, I hope you find them interesting and neat.

In need of neighbours for workign out my long form history though, also three trade routes if anyone wants to poke me about getting a little extra income, hmmm, maybe I should ask Shinn about getting hairdye and ridiculous fashion imported from the Holy Empire...

Also, have we considered having a sort of Bablyon 5-esq Space UN? Not in so much as it has any political authroty or the ability to draft resolutions, but as a spot where ambassadors for all our respective nations can sit and yell at each other and never really achive anything beyond some good witty banter?

[Esquire]

Instant controversy! The Confederacy will only join the Space UN if each of its polities gets a seat.

[KhorneFlakes]

I think we've had that before in one of the old SDNW's. It didn't work out so well.

To be frank, if there is a SPAAAACE UN, it should stay in the fluff and not be an actual factor in the game.

[White Haven]

A United Nations-style organization really lends itself to the formation of massive powerblocs, and those themselves lead to stasis and stagnation simply because any one nation that steps out of line can be brutally steamrolled. I don't think anyone wants to see SDNW5 become a cold-war stare-off between coalitions so vast that any nation that tries something interesting on its own gets flattened unquestionably. That's not to say you can't have allies, but there was a term in EVE that's very applicable here, a NAPfest. Sure, they occasionally produce massive coalition wars that set space on fire, but they dramatically reduce the power of the individual, and (I'm looking at you here, MEHstomp) they're very hard to write in a timely manner in the context of an STGOD.

Plus the drama. Ooooh the drama. Also, players who feel their nations are impotent due to massive coalitions are far more likely to just up and quit the game. I've been on both ends of that, and it sucks for the game as a whole. The existence of a Space UN carries with it the implication that peaceful multilateral diplomacy is the natural state of affairs for nations that aren't actively dicks/Bragulans (Shrooooom, come back to us!)/mentally unstable. You end up with all the 'America/Britain/Other First-World modern nation in different colors' nations under the UN banner by default (and there are always a ton of those), and then all the more unique and unusual nations end up having to band together whether or not it makes sense for them to do so out of self-defense, and then the game grinds to a halt.

[KhorneFlakes]

White Haven just described the problem better than I did. The above is why SPAAAACE UN's are bad.

[Skywalker_T-65]

The Republic of Arcadia is up now, if anyone wants to discuss it. I also have one trade route open, if anyone wants to be the partner. Just PM me if you do.

[Panzersharkcat]

And if one forms, the Bastian Star Empire will stay out of both that and whatever coalition the more unusual countries form. Flinging around a lot of trade routes and being a major tax shelter will be my defense because it's probably not a good idea to attack the place rich people stash their money. I'm even considering sacrificing one of my mid-range sectors in exchange for three more trade routes.

EDIT: And I did it. I have five still open. Four if Arcadia accepts.

[Simon_Jester]

White Haven just described the problem better than I did. The above is why SPAAAACE UN's are bad.

Agreed. I have no intention of creating a Space UN. Entities which describe themselves as "united nations" may or may not exist, by virtue of consisting of nations and being united, but I want to avoid a situation where the "norm" is for all the 'civilized' players to join up into one big blob-conglomeration whose only practical purpose is to beat up on the quirky loner kids.

[OmegaChief]

Alright, bad idea, hey I figured it didn't hurt to propose though.

Also Simon, after thinking on it I did indeed decide to count both lenses as a single jump gate assembly, and got an extra Colonial Sector for the authority, edited my psot accordingly when I updated things.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

The Republic of Arcadia is up now, if anyone wants to discuss it. I also have one trade route open, if anyone wants to be the partner. Just PM me if you do.

Your choices for sector names (and even your nation name) are rather funny to me, seeing as I also have a Reach and an Arcadia. I'm pretty sure there's a way to handwave all of that, though.

As for taking a species name from Stargate, that's nothing, really. Appropriating stuff from other franchises for our own use is standard operating procedure around here; it's all in how you use what you've taken.

[Skywalker_T-65]

The Republic of Arcadia is up now, if anyone wants to discuss it. I also have one trade route open, if anyone wants to be the partner. Just PM me if you do.

Your choices for sector names (and even your nation name) are rather funny to me, seeing as I also have a Reach and an Arcadia. I'm pretty sure there's a way to handwave all of that, though.

As for taking a species name from Stargate, that's nothing, really. Appropriating stuff from other franchises for our own use is standard operating procedure around here; it's all in how you use what you've taken.

Oh...whoops...that's what I get for posting without reading all the other nation posts. Well...if yours is an older power (relatively speaking) it is easy enough to say they got the idea from your nation. Simple enough really.

[Akhlut]

Updated my stuff on the nation description thread and, yes, I got mod permission for the Grays to be psychically blank, before anyone asks. Just note I'd rather not have anyone say that their one special super psyker can read their minds; for some bizarro reason that will never be explained, trying to read one of their minds (or control their thoughts) would be like trying the same on a rock.

Not to say that your psyker can't just light them on fire with pyrokinesis, just that the telepaths can't read their minds (or even detect them via psychic means).

[Simon_Jester]

[modhat on]

Unfortunately, things like 'absolute immunity' are... troublesome. They lend themselves to "I did this!" "I'm immune!" "Not that immune!" "Yes I am!" arguments. So let's... try to be moderate about this, okay? Maybe reading Grays' minds is extraordinarily difficult and it's hard to get more than superficial random crap out of them like "I like the color blue and think I am a superior lifeform" out of them.

Heck, maybe that's the real source of their immunity- they're so self-conscious of their own awesomeness and superiority that a telepath trying to read their minds won't learn anything except what colossal raging dickheads they are.

[Akhlut]

Fair enough in the interests of preventing immunity spam; my thoughts on the matter were kind of along the lines that the Grays were an anomaly, in that none of them, out of a population of billions, exhibits anything remotely psychic (which I was planning on using in their narratives as a major plot point) and that, correspondingly, even other races' psychics can't ply into their minds anymore than they can a Dodge Neon. The Grays wouldn't be living null fields like Pariahs in 40k (ie, living beings that actively harm psychic people), but enigmas that psychics can't probe for whatever reason.

I'm also trying to make it so that the Grays are still most definitely affected by physical effects of psychic powers; a powerful, multitalented psyker can't read a Gray mind, but can certainly throw them around, set them on fire, or otherwise do things to their bodies, but their minds are just not there from a psychic standpoint.

[Vanas]

Hm, well, I've got a couple of people after a lucrative trade route of delicious, delicious honey. I'm inclined to wait for a map and things before I post something definite for it. Or try to work out who's got a handy warpgate to avoid the delicious, delicious honey crystallising. I don't mind accepting some, but I'll hold off on who mine's going to for now.

[Darkevilme]

Fair enough in the interests of preventing immunity spam; my thoughts on the matter were kind of along the lines that the Grays were an anomaly, in that none of them, out of a population of billions, exhibits anything remotely psychic (which I was planning on using in their narratives as a major plot point) and that, correspondingly, even other races' psychics can't ply into their minds anymore than they can a Dodge Neon. The Grays wouldn't be living null fields like Pariahs in 40k (ie, living beings that actively harm psychic people), but enigmas that psychics can't probe for whatever reason.

I'm also trying to make it so that the Grays are still most definitely affected by physical effects of psychic powers; a powerful, multitalented psyker can't read a Gray mind, but can certainly throw them around, set them on fire, or otherwise do things to their bodies, but their minds are just not there from a psychic standpoint.

This sounds a little like the Chamarran mental defence in SDNW4. They had a negative psionic potential so no psychers..but it gave them a natural defence against psionic intrusion that I generally implied was 'the mental equivalent of trekking across a glacier, it's tiring, you have to travel a long way to get to your destination and the terrain is antithetical to your presence in some passive yet profoundly unsettling way'.