Are Moderates Christians "True Christians"

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-03-08 01:11pm

A lot of people say that people who commit horrible things in the name of God are not "True Christians" because they do not really follow the teachings of the Bible.

Now, let's turn this around. Are the "moderate" Christians really christians, or do they fall under the "Dosen't really follow Biblical teachings." catrgory normally reserved for Hitler?

So as not to be biased, this applies to all other Religons.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-03-08 01:14pm

If by "True Christian", you mean "follows the Bible 100%", then no, they aren't, and that's a good thing. However, some people have different defentions of "True Christan". Usually, it means doing something good.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-03-08 01:19pm

"True Christian" has always been used (at least from what I have seen) to mean "someone who follows the teachings of the Bible and Christ." Hitler is supposedly not a True Christian because he didn't follow all the Love & Peace stuff that Jesus said. However, our dear Rev. Phelps has called the rest of the world not True Christians because they don't hate homosexuals the way he does.

I was wondering next time someone says that Hitler wasn't a True Christian, that I could turn it around on them.

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » 2003-03-08 01:32pm

True Christians imo are those that follow the teachings of Christ. That's what the name "Christian" implies afterall. The Bible as a whole on the other hand is a mixed bag.

I went to a Jesuit High School, (For those that don't know the Jesuits are a monastic order of the Catholic church), and in scripture and science classes we'd regularly be taught how much of the bible is allegorical in nature, that YEC is false, the global flood didn't happen and that evolution was fact.

Coolness all around.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-08 01:55pm

Yogi wrote:A lot of people say that people who commit horrible things in the name of God are not "True Christians" because they do not really follow the teachings of the Bible.

Now, let's turn this around. Are the "moderate" Christians really christians, or do they fall under the "Dosen't really follow Biblical teachings." catrgory normally reserved for Hitler?

So as not to be biased, this applies to all other Religons.

My definition of a true Christian is as follows:

John 3:16-19
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
(NIV)

How can we know someone who claims to be a Christian is one (Christian meaning one who accepts Christ as Lord and Savior, following his teachings)?
Jesus said the following:
John 14:15
15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
(NIV)

Someone can believe that Jesus existed and was a good man, but unless they embrace him as Lord and Savior, following his commands, they are not Christians.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-08 02:30pm

Most of the people I've seen that use the phrase "True Christians" use it on themselves and condemns other wannabe Christians. And they tend not be moderate either.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-08 05:03pm

Christians follow the teachings of Christ, as laid out in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-03-08 05:08pm

True followers of Christ are very nice people. Some day I would actually like to meet one.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-03-08 05:17pm

A Christian is one who believes that the Jesus was God in human form, and therefore follows his teachings.

However, it is impossible to follow the bible 100%, as it contradicts itself several times. (Not only does the two testaments contradict each other, but the abundance of different authors result in a lot of minor contradictions)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-08 06:04pm

Any Christian will tell you that a "true Christian" is anyone who happens to share his personal version of Christianity

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-08 06:15pm

There is no such thing as a true Christian, and this coming from a Christian. We all sin and are have all disobeyed God in some way or another. Therefore, we couldn't have followed perfectly and fall short. That is why there is something called forgiveness and saving grace. Sorry if that sounded stupid, but that is the way I feel.

von Neufeld · Post by **von Neufeld** » 2003-03-08 07:29pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Christians follow the teachings of Christ, as laid out in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

It is my opinion that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John doesn't contain just the true teachings of Christ. I find it likely that the teachings of Christ was corrupted by Peter, Paul and the early churchfathers to fit their own agenda. I don't subscribe to the concepts of sin and salvation and it is my opinion that these concepts was included by Peter and Paul as a compromise with traditional Judaism. It is my opinion that P&P are the B&B of Christianity.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-03-08 08:39pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:A Christian is one who believes that the Jesus was God in human form, and therefore follows his teachings.

Some of the nicest people on the planet are the ones who think that Sallasie(really embarassed if the spelling is wrong) was god on earth.
Just to clarify the ideals of Rastafarianism, they are the only people who can say "shake that booty that Jesus gave you, shake your booty in the name of the Lord" and mean it.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-03-08 08:52pm

If you wanna be technical, all you have to do to be a Christian is believe Christ is the Son of God, he died, was reincarnated, etc. Specific denominations will usually require more than that.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-08 09:48pm

Acording to that, Satan is a Christian. You have got it all wrong

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-08 10:06pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:Acording to that, Satan is a Christian. You have got it all wrong

I believe you refer to the following:

James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-- and shudder.
(NIV)

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-08 10:33pm

Darth Wong wrote:Any Christian will tell you that a "true Christian" is anyone who happens to share his personal version of Christianity

Naturally.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-08 11:22pm

This is all relative. One cannot say that even "following the Bible" qualifies one as being a "true Christian" because that in itself is a new, Protestant idea. For almost 1500 years, following the Bible was irrelevant: it was about following the Church and its authority combined with Biblical teachings.

The American Protestants forget that, historically, it was not about only following the Bible. This is a new idealogy that was brought about by Luther and Calvin (although there were previous reformers that failed).

During the time of the Crusades, for example, just being a European would make one a "Christian." Turks would refer to them as such. The Europeans were born into the Catholic Church and were subjected to its political and religious authority.

My point is that being a "true" Christian is relative.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-09 12:01am

True

I just have one thing to say before I go nuts.

What really pisses me off is that there are people that sit in Church and act all goody-goody, but couldn't tell you a fact about Christianity worth a damn. I hate that so Goddam much. They hide behind God and don't know who he is. How dare they! In Revelation, these are the people that are lukewarm and will be chewed up and spit back out. I also hate those hipocrites who think that just believing is enough. The point of the rules, even though we know that a person can't help but to sin, is to at least try. Those who cause pain to fellow man on purpose and have no remorse of guilt are damned.

Sorry if I got off track and preached something that was wrong, but I have some strange views on my religion. I already feel bad that I have just judged a group.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-09 05:04am

Well, not only that but the "goody" Christians (the Ned Flanders type) have their own stupid clique that people are either part of or they will burn. For example, my friend claims to be a Christian but he drinks, smokes, looks at porn and gambles. Now, the "clique" Christians would never accept him as one of them because they don't engage in these types of behaviors openly.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-09 05:17am

Admiral, the Christians that you are speaking of only care about what other people think about them, and they need this control mechanism in their lives. If one of the central tenants in Christianity is love, which can only exist by putting the ego aside, then how can these people even claim to be Christians when ego is the only thing that matters to them? They only care about never saying a cuss word, never watching a "bad" movie, fighting the evil evolutionists, etc, In other words, it's all about ego. They have to make sure that everyone else around them knows that they are "Christians." Now, if we look at what Jesus taught we learn that Christians are supposed to put their egos aside and do what he did.

How many Christians complain about homeless people and never help them?! They wear their nice suits to church while spitting on someone who asks them for change, but they have "Jesus in their hearts" so they are going to Heaven. They don't do a damn thing to help society, but dammit, they are Christians so they are going to Heaven!

I cannot stand Christianity. It's these types of people that make me sick, and they are so ignorant that they don't even realize what they should be doing.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-09 02:06pm

I think I agree with you.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-11 05:53pm

"True Christianity" is an attempt by moderate denominations to disassociate themselves from their religion's bloody, violent past (even though they owe it's popularity to blood, violence and cultural genocide, but that's another matter). They say that people like Hitler and the Crusaders weren't "true Christians" because they killed lots of people who didn't agree with them. In reality, this behavior is encouraged in the Bible, which almost all denominations hold up as divinely inspired.

I have no problems with denominations condemning the actions of early Christians. However, I do have a problem when those denominations refuse to hold the Bible accountable for its part in those atrocities.

You can't have it both ways. Either the Bible was divinely inspired and everyone who killed in the name of Christianity was fully justified by it, or some parts of it are simply false. Take your pick.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-11 08:21pm

Durandal wrote:
You can't have it both ways. Either the Bible was divinely inspired and everyone who killed in the name of Christianity was fully justified by it, or some parts of it are simply false. Take your pick.

if you take the second, it makes for some disturbing suggestions about the bible entire - miracles are how plausible, exactly? and if you go with the first, its depressing to know you worship a blood god.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-11 08:48pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:
Durandal wrote:You can't have it both ways. Either the Bible was divinely inspired and everyone who killed in the name of Christianity was fully justified by it, or some parts of it are simply false. Take your pick.
if you take the second, it makes for some disturbing suggestions about the bible entire - miracles are how plausible, exactly? and if you go with the first, its depressing to know you worship a blood god.

All it takes is some misdirection and staging. Magicians have been around for a very long time; there's no reason to think that Jesus wasn't just a parlor trickster whose followers vastly exaggerated his feats in their accounts.

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Are Moderates Christians "True Christians"

Are Moderates Christians "True Christians"

Re: Are Moderates Christians "True Christians"