SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
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White Haven
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Or they're nomadic on a long time scale, I.E. move into region of space, strip-mine it to the bones, then move on. As long as the time-scale is long enough, it doesn't have to be mechanically nomadic during the game itself.
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
I'm thinking the never set up many colony worlds, but then the home sector got hit with a gamma ray burst, and to protect the home systems they pulled back.Simon_Jester wrote:Well yeah, but the Screworlders probably get suspicious and pull a bazooka out of their back pocket when they hear about the "Metropolitan Transport Authority," too. So meh.
EDIT: Oh, one thing, Timothy- if you want Kryptonians to have been a major power in the past, you'd better have a pretty good explanation for why they're a micronation now.
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Skywalker_T-65
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
You see, I get around conflict problems by making Arcadia be Space Sweden. Neutral, but not isolationist, like America in WW1. Though, if someone attacked us, or we made an alliance then a war would come. But that would be rare to an extreme.
SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE
Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
The way I see it, the Stellar Nation is going to have 3 sectors that are under its possession, which they use as their exclusive territories, where an important part of their industrial capacity is concentrated ; but the people itself is dispersed all around the Known Galaxy, in fleets of a thousand of Habitat-Ships, each habitat housing a million people, for a Fleet of a Billion of Brothers and Sisters. They are everywhere people accept them, only returning to the Nation's territories to allow their own people to go on pilgrimage and to maintain & repair their fleets and to exchange with their brothers and sisters the goods and stories they amassed during their travels.
The territories themselves are going to take only 12 NCP. Would it be possible to trade 10 NCP to "simulate" roughly two thousands years worth of constant shipbuilding, hull retrofitting and population growth ?
25 + 6 = 31 NCP => 12 NCP for my Territories [GDP : $21,000] ; 10 NCP for my bigass fleet ; and 9 Trade-routes to simulate my relation with the other "nations" which host some of the Stellar Nation's fleets [GDP : $18,000]
GDP according to rules : $39,000
Is my bigass fleet too much ? :
Spoiler
Note that the Stellar Nation has absolutely no ground army that could allow them to invade a planet, as they are culturally uninterested in having them in the first place.
As long as their Brothers and Sisters, the Doxa or their Allies aren't attacked, they do not involve themselves in the affairs of the galaxy.
Overview of the Nation's Territories :
“Where He Saw The Light” / Revelation :
The only “habitable” planet in the nominal possession of the Stellar Nation.
It is the spiritual center of their whole Civilization.
Revelation is a rough translation of the Stellar name of the planet, of which one of the closest translation is “Where He Saw The Light”, in reference to the fact that it is the planet on which the Prophet was revealed the teachings of the Flame.
It is a barren world, too close from its sun for human comfort, with a global mean temperature around 30°C, and with spots around the equator where the temperature can locally go well over 100°C. Archeological evidences demonstrate that this world was inhabited millions of years ago by a xeno-civilization, the craters dating back from this period suggesting a possible reason as to why the planet was found uninhabited.
The atmosphere of Revelation is mostly residual, the planet's biosphere slowly dying out as the planet move toward its sun. Its relative thinness and low level of oxygen force the use of re-breathers when outside for long periods of time or when executing physically intensive tasks.
It is one of the Pillars of the Doxa that each Believer has to go on a pilgrimage to Revelation at least once during its lifetime, and as such the planet see hundreds of millions of pilgrims each years. When not following the Trail, they stay at the only city on the planet, situated at its south pole. Catering to the Pilgrims is the only industry of the city, and by extension the planet.
Only the Believers are allowed to set foot on the planet.
Revelation's Star System : “Our Collective Home” / Home
(all names are rough translation from the Stellar language)
Star : 1 => “Light” - Type G1, 0.9 Sun Masses. 'Naked' eye color : yellow tending toward red.
Planets : 5
1 : “Gehenna” : Closest planet to the system's sun. A neptune-class gas giant in the latest stages of its transformation into a Chtonian planet [ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthonian_planet]. Very bright in the night-sky. Emit a dull red glow from the nocturne side.
A : Inner Asteroid Belt : Mostly composed of Iron & Nickel. Present a large amount of heavy elements. One the Nation's main hub of Shipbuilding Activities, with the system's Second Asteroid Belt and the shipyards of “The Hub” (another Nation owned sector, in a central position in the Known Galaxy)
2 : “Where He Saw The Light” / Revelation : on the inner edge of the system's Goldilock zone. The planet has no moon.
3 : “The Sprite” : This tiny planet devoid of any atmosphere and presenting a lunar surface is theorized to have been the moon of Revelation before the series of cosmological event which radically changed the face of the system.
B : Second Asteroid Belt : Similar composition and mass in the same order of magnitude as the inner belt. Important center of shipbuilding activities. See “inner asteroid belt” above.
4 : “Gate” : Jupiter-class gas giant.
The Warp-Gate in low orbit, at the bottom of the planet's massive gravity-well, and the fact that the whole sector and the neighboring ones are hyperspace-shoals make it the only viable entry into the system. Fusion torches burning the atmosphere of the gas giant produce the energy necessary to power the gate.
Extremely well-defended, Inward (against possible intruders coming from the Gate) and Outward (from people having crossed the shoals in normal Hyperspace and who want to attack the Gate).
C : Outer Asteroid Belt : very thin, mostly composed of various kind of ices. Likely to be the remains of a gas giant.
5 : “The-Planet-That-Is-Death” / Death :
Far from the star, in the cold expanses of the system's Kuiper Belt, lay a solitary planet. Almost nothing is known for sure about it, as any object approaching it closer than one AU is destroyed or simply disappear. Stranger, Hyperspace does not exist in the corresponding region of space surrounding Death. It is theorized that the planet is the source of the hyperspace shoals in this region of the galaxy, which span this sector and the neighboring ones.
Individuals of higher-than-average psionic potential tend to suffer from various headache-like symptoms when less than 7 AU away from the planet, symptoms which progressively worsen to include hallucinations, paranoid delusions and heightened aggressiveness the closer they get to Death.
The only things known for sure about Death is that the planet's surface is totally covered in metallic constructions, the celestial body's exceptional brightness in the infrared spectrum suggesting that whatever lay in it is producing incredible amounts of energy.
For fear of what sleeping giant may be awoken, the Nation has been ensuring since its birth that no one try to trespass an exclusion sphere of 8 AU around Death.
The Nation has a profound and superstitious fear of “The-Planet-That-Is-Death”, and it has left a profound impact on their culture.
“Journey's End” / Terminus [Revelation's Sector]
[Colony Sector + Warp-gate (2 NCP) : GDP = $3000]
By the standards of the known galaxy, the Terminus Sector is an underdeveloped colony sector. The Stellar Nation maintain very few permanent infrastructures in it outside of the Home system. This can be easily explained by the difficulty of interstellar travel, the whole sector and the eight adjacent ones being one huge hyperspace shoal. Only the Terminus sector is claimed by the Stellar Nation, as its Sacred Territory.
At the time of the prophet, this region of space was a well-known hub of space-pirate activities, and even today, outside of the fortress of Home it is still a mostly lawless place.
If pirates still take refuge today in the Terminus sector, they are very cautious not to attack the Nation, as two thousand years of cohabitation have demonstrated that attacking it was equal to suicide. Rumors have that most of the pirates in the region pay a tribute to the Nation.
The Hub [“Where He Was Birthed” / Cradle's Sector]
[Core sector + 2*GDP upgrade + 1 warp-gate (8 NCP) : GDP = $15000]
The Hub is a Nation Owned sector roughly at the center of the known galaxy. It is in this sector that lay the planet of origin of the Prophet (“Where He Was Birthed” / Cradle), which make it another high place of Pilgrimage, if not as important as Revelation in the Doxa.
The few inhabited planets of the sectors aren't under the direct control of the Nation. If still nominally independent, they are de facto under its protectorate. It is an agreement that satisfy the indigenous populations, as the Nation do not meddle in the affairs of these worlds (with he notable exception of the Prophet's homeworld), and its fleets are more than enough of a deterrent to anyone that would have claim over their territories.
The heavily defended Warp-Gate of the Sector, its central position in the known galaxy and the Nation's policies of promoting its use as a commercial hub for all have made it possibly the most frequented hub of space travel in the known galaxy, generating immense revenues for the Stellar Nation.
It is the center of the Nation's civilization.
“Where He Became One With The Flame” / Ascension
[Colony Sector + Warp-gate (2 NCP) : GDP = $3000]
In this nebula full of young & nascent stars, it is said that the Prophet became one with the Flame.
The sector is empty of habitable planets, but is full of harvestable resources for the Nation's industries.
The territories themselves are going to take only 12 NCP. Would it be possible to trade 10 NCP to "simulate" roughly two thousands years worth of constant shipbuilding, hull retrofitting and population growth ?
25 + 6 = 31 NCP => 12 NCP for my Territories [GDP : $21,000] ; 10 NCP for my bigass fleet ; and 9 Trade-routes to simulate my relation with the other "nations" which host some of the Stellar Nation's fleets [GDP : $18,000]
GDP according to rules : $39,000
Is my bigass fleet too much ? :
Spoiler
The totality of the Nation's GDP is invested in its fleet, to build new ships and maintain, repair & retrofit the old ones.
Note that the Stellar Nation has absolutely no ground army that could allow them to invade a planet, as they are culturally uninterested in having them in the first place.
As long as their Brothers and Sisters, the Doxa or their Allies aren't attacked, they do not involve themselves in the affairs of the galaxy.
Overview of the Nation's Territories :
“Where He Saw The Light” / Revelation :
The only “habitable” planet in the nominal possession of the Stellar Nation.
It is the spiritual center of their whole Civilization.
Revelation is a rough translation of the Stellar name of the planet, of which one of the closest translation is “Where He Saw The Light”, in reference to the fact that it is the planet on which the Prophet was revealed the teachings of the Flame.
It is a barren world, too close from its sun for human comfort, with a global mean temperature around 30°C, and with spots around the equator where the temperature can locally go well over 100°C. Archeological evidences demonstrate that this world was inhabited millions of years ago by a xeno-civilization, the craters dating back from this period suggesting a possible reason as to why the planet was found uninhabited.
The atmosphere of Revelation is mostly residual, the planet's biosphere slowly dying out as the planet move toward its sun. Its relative thinness and low level of oxygen force the use of re-breathers when outside for long periods of time or when executing physically intensive tasks.
It is one of the Pillars of the Doxa that each Believer has to go on a pilgrimage to Revelation at least once during its lifetime, and as such the planet see hundreds of millions of pilgrims each years. When not following the Trail, they stay at the only city on the planet, situated at its south pole. Catering to the Pilgrims is the only industry of the city, and by extension the planet.
Only the Believers are allowed to set foot on the planet.
Revelation's Star System : “Our Collective Home” / Home
(all names are rough translation from the Stellar language)
Star : 1 => “Light” - Type G1, 0.9 Sun Masses. 'Naked' eye color : yellow tending toward red.
Planets : 5
1 : “Gehenna” : Closest planet to the system's sun. A neptune-class gas giant in the latest stages of its transformation into a Chtonian planet [ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthonian_planet]. Very bright in the night-sky. Emit a dull red glow from the nocturne side.
A : Inner Asteroid Belt : Mostly composed of Iron & Nickel. Present a large amount of heavy elements. One the Nation's main hub of Shipbuilding Activities, with the system's Second Asteroid Belt and the shipyards of “The Hub” (another Nation owned sector, in a central position in the Known Galaxy)
2 : “Where He Saw The Light” / Revelation : on the inner edge of the system's Goldilock zone. The planet has no moon.
3 : “The Sprite” : This tiny planet devoid of any atmosphere and presenting a lunar surface is theorized to have been the moon of Revelation before the series of cosmological event which radically changed the face of the system.
B : Second Asteroid Belt : Similar composition and mass in the same order of magnitude as the inner belt. Important center of shipbuilding activities. See “inner asteroid belt” above.
4 : “Gate” : Jupiter-class gas giant.
The Warp-Gate in low orbit, at the bottom of the planet's massive gravity-well, and the fact that the whole sector and the neighboring ones are hyperspace-shoals make it the only viable entry into the system. Fusion torches burning the atmosphere of the gas giant produce the energy necessary to power the gate.
Extremely well-defended, Inward (against possible intruders coming from the Gate) and Outward (from people having crossed the shoals in normal Hyperspace and who want to attack the Gate).
C : Outer Asteroid Belt : very thin, mostly composed of various kind of ices. Likely to be the remains of a gas giant.
5 : “The-Planet-That-Is-Death” / Death :
Far from the star, in the cold expanses of the system's Kuiper Belt, lay a solitary planet. Almost nothing is known for sure about it, as any object approaching it closer than one AU is destroyed or simply disappear. Stranger, Hyperspace does not exist in the corresponding region of space surrounding Death. It is theorized that the planet is the source of the hyperspace shoals in this region of the galaxy, which span this sector and the neighboring ones.
Individuals of higher-than-average psionic potential tend to suffer from various headache-like symptoms when less than 7 AU away from the planet, symptoms which progressively worsen to include hallucinations, paranoid delusions and heightened aggressiveness the closer they get to Death.
The only things known for sure about Death is that the planet's surface is totally covered in metallic constructions, the celestial body's exceptional brightness in the infrared spectrum suggesting that whatever lay in it is producing incredible amounts of energy.
For fear of what sleeping giant may be awoken, the Nation has been ensuring since its birth that no one try to trespass an exclusion sphere of 8 AU around Death.
The Nation has a profound and superstitious fear of “The-Planet-That-Is-Death”, and it has left a profound impact on their culture.
“Journey's End” / Terminus [Revelation's Sector]
[Colony Sector + Warp-gate (2 NCP) : GDP = $3000]
By the standards of the known galaxy, the Terminus Sector is an underdeveloped colony sector. The Stellar Nation maintain very few permanent infrastructures in it outside of the Home system. This can be easily explained by the difficulty of interstellar travel, the whole sector and the eight adjacent ones being one huge hyperspace shoal. Only the Terminus sector is claimed by the Stellar Nation, as its Sacred Territory.
At the time of the prophet, this region of space was a well-known hub of space-pirate activities, and even today, outside of the fortress of Home it is still a mostly lawless place.
If pirates still take refuge today in the Terminus sector, they are very cautious not to attack the Nation, as two thousand years of cohabitation have demonstrated that attacking it was equal to suicide. Rumors have that most of the pirates in the region pay a tribute to the Nation.
The Hub [“Where He Was Birthed” / Cradle's Sector]
[Core sector + 2*GDP upgrade + 1 warp-gate (8 NCP) : GDP = $15000]
The Hub is a Nation Owned sector roughly at the center of the known galaxy. It is in this sector that lay the planet of origin of the Prophet (“Where He Was Birthed” / Cradle), which make it another high place of Pilgrimage, if not as important as Revelation in the Doxa.
The few inhabited planets of the sectors aren't under the direct control of the Nation. If still nominally independent, they are de facto under its protectorate. It is an agreement that satisfy the indigenous populations, as the Nation do not meddle in the affairs of these worlds (with he notable exception of the Prophet's homeworld), and its fleets are more than enough of a deterrent to anyone that would have claim over their territories.
The heavily defended Warp-Gate of the Sector, its central position in the known galaxy and the Nation's policies of promoting its use as a commercial hub for all have made it possibly the most frequented hub of space travel in the known galaxy, generating immense revenues for the Stellar Nation.
It is the center of the Nation's civilization.
“Where He Became One With The Flame” / Ascension
[Colony Sector + Warp-gate (2 NCP) : GDP = $3000]
In this nebula full of young & nascent stars, it is said that the Prophet became one with the Flame.
The sector is empty of habitable planets, but is full of harvestable resources for the Nation's industries.
Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Who want to accept the Nation's fleets in their territories ? This gives you 1 inbound Trade-route (+ $500 GDP) and depending on some little things to be discussed privately on a case by case basis, this makes you an Ally of the Stellar Nation (contact me by PM).
We may possibly exploit some of your uninhabited systems' resources.
We may possibly exploit some of your uninhabited systems' resources.
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OmegaChief
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Well the Authority might be interested, check out thier info post in the thread and see what you think (I've also got three unassigned trade routes myself if you want to make one of yours a two way thing).
This odyssey, this, exodus. Do we journey toward the promised land, or into the valley of the kings? Three decades ago I envisioned a new future for our species, and now that we are on the brink of realizing my dream, I feel only solitude, and regret. Has my entire life's work been a fool's crusade? Have I led my people into this desert, only to die?
-Admiral Aken Bosch, Supreme Commander of the Neo-Terran Front, NTF Iceni, 2367
-Admiral Aken Bosch, Supreme Commander of the Neo-Terran Front, NTF Iceni, 2367
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White Haven
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
As much as I deeply value The Monies, the League's paranoia is entirely too...paranoid...for that to even begin to be a possibility. If one of your fleets wanted to try to move in uninvited, though, I'd be happy to skirmish and then have loads of diplomatic tension. 
Out of Context Theatre, this week starring Darth Nostril.
-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'
Fiction!: The Final War (Bolo/Lovecraft) (Ch 7 9/15/11), Living (D&D, Complete)
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Imperial528
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Cerna may be interested in harboring one of the Nation's fleets, although I would like to discuss the more specific details.
Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
I think my fleet & population estimate may be too much, but I await S_J's opinion on the subject.
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Skywalker_T-65
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Understandable. I don't believe SDNW4 had a nomadic race, so that is new territory. Of course, Arcadia is willing to allow you in our territory...after all, we aren't all humans here (Furlings) so a nomadic race wouldn't be a problem.
SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE
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Panzersharkcat
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
I think we would, too, provided you don't start shit or bother the locals too much.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
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"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
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Scottish Ninja
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
You're perfectly welcome to flagrantly trespass in Volsci space, with the approximate following reaction from the Congress: "oh god get out no stop touching that don't touch that getoutgetoutgetout do not want make it go awaaaaaaaay" 
Not like they can stop you, besides, all the big kids are doing it! (which means you might want to watch out for them.)
Not like they can stop you, besides, all the big kids are doing it! (which means you might want to watch out for them.)
"If the capsule explodes, heroes of the Zenobian Onion will still rain upon us. Literally!" - Shroom
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Rabid, I assume your nation is dominated by humans, since you don't seem to specify which species is the dominant one. Is that correct?
If that's the case, your "nation," such as it is, receives no diplomatic recognition from the Kritarchy and is treated as a series of pirates and will be treated as such if any ships infringe on the borders of the Kritarchy or any of its subsidiary nations.
If it's not human or has >50% non-humans, it would be treated a bit better, though such mining expeditions or the like would have a 20% tax instituted on them (either 20% of what was mined or 20% of value, as determined by the Kritarchy).
If that's the case, your "nation," such as it is, receives no diplomatic recognition from the Kritarchy and is treated as a series of pirates and will be treated as such if any ships infringe on the borders of the Kritarchy or any of its subsidiary nations.
If it's not human or has >50% non-humans, it would be treated a bit better, though such mining expeditions or the like would have a 20% tax instituted on them (either 20% of what was mined or 20% of value, as determined by the Kritarchy).
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
A bunch of Hellene polities would love to host nomad fleets - good for business, dontcha know.
“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb
Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
@ Akhlut : Well, it's not politically dominated by humans as such, even if they may represent more than 50% of the population :
The race of the Prophet isn't mentioned by the Doxa (and as such it is forbidden by the Doxa to represent the Prophet), and "Where He Was Born" has been a merchant planet with a very diverse population from all around the known galaxy (and beyond) long before the Revelation. Humans have been converted to the Doxa since they reached the Stars, and their demography allowed them to become a majority within the Community's population with the centuries.
It is to be noted that the Community is ever-growing, the combination of a culture encouraging fertility and the constant flow of new converts being the main reason behind the constant expansion of the Stellar Nation. This demographic pressure is one of the reason behind the nomadic lifestyle of the Community, as their pacifistic and life-worshiping ideals would otherwise clash with their constant need to expand their territories if they had to live on planets.
Note : The Doxa is at the same time :
- The Religion
- The Government
- And the Holy Book
of the Community.
The race of the Prophet isn't mentioned by the Doxa (and as such it is forbidden by the Doxa to represent the Prophet), and "Where He Was Born" has been a merchant planet with a very diverse population from all around the known galaxy (and beyond) long before the Revelation. Humans have been converted to the Doxa since they reached the Stars, and their demography allowed them to become a majority within the Community's population with the centuries.
It is to be noted that the Community is ever-growing, the combination of a culture encouraging fertility and the constant flow of new converts being the main reason behind the constant expansion of the Stellar Nation. This demographic pressure is one of the reason behind the nomadic lifestyle of the Community, as their pacifistic and life-worshiping ideals would otherwise clash with their constant need to expand their territories if they had to live on planets.
Note : The Doxa is at the same time :
- The Religion
- The Government
- And the Holy Book
of the Community.
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Vanas
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
The Bees have no real objections and are sure that they can come to a mutually beneficial relationship. Namely, in the fact that the nomads have roughly 100% more thumbs than they do. And quite possibly some handy mining kit.
According to wikipedia, "the Mohorovičić discontinuity is the boundary between the Earth's crust and the mantle."
According to Starbound, it's a problem solvable with enough combat drugs to turn you into the Incredible Hulk.
According to Starbound, it's a problem solvable with enough combat drugs to turn you into the Incredible Hulk.
Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
"Trade Routes" of the Stellar Nation
Outbound (from us to them, + $2000 GDP for us, + $500 GDP for them) :
- Capellan Authority (Allies)
- Cerna (status to be discussed)
- Arcadia (Allies)
- The Commonwealth (status to be discussed)
- Hellenic Confederacy (status to be discussed)
- Goddamn Bees (status to be discussed)
- Bastian Star Empire (status to be discussed)
- Volscian Confederacy (status to be discussed)
- [FREE SLOT]
Inbound (from them to us, + $500 GDP for us, + $2000 GDP for them) :
- Capellan Authority (Allies)
Edit : edited diplomatic status
Outbound (from us to them, + $2000 GDP for us, + $500 GDP for them) :
- Capellan Authority (Allies)
- Cerna (status to be discussed)
- Arcadia (Allies)
- The Commonwealth (status to be discussed)
- Hellenic Confederacy (status to be discussed)
- Goddamn Bees (status to be discussed)
- Bastian Star Empire (status to be discussed)
- Volscian Confederacy (status to be discussed)
- [FREE SLOT]
Inbound (from them to us, + $500 GDP for us, + $2000 GDP for them) :
- Capellan Authority (Allies)
Edit : edited diplomatic status
Last edited by Rabid on 2012-03-28 04:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Skywalker_T-65
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Well then, just flash a PM my way and we can move from there. I'll be ready to discuss whenever you are.
SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE
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Simon_Jester
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Skywalker, please remember that a "trade route" usually does not mean just one ship going back and forth between your empire and another person's empire. Not unless it's a REALLY BIG ship.
It's more like the "trade relationship" that exists between, say, the US and China: many ships moving constantly back and forth, stopping in ports and dropping things off, with interchange of cultural ideas and corporations operating on both ends of the route and so on.
I would imagine that usually, the trade route represents an ongoing relationship: "I have been trading with you for years," just as the sectors I own are usually territory I've owned for years.
As long as you're comfy with this, we should be OK.
For example, I wouldn't actually mind Rabid's nation being dispersed into multiple areas across the map.
I do not much care how many populated 'civilian' ships your people possess to house their population; that is entirely within your judgement.
However, you do NOT need to expend NCP for these roving 'Gypsy fleets.' You spend NCP to gain economic resources that make you money. This will matter later, when you calculate how many armed ships your civilization has to defend its roving star-caravans.
The real question is how to adjudicate the NCP value of one of the Nation's habitat-fleets. My suggestion (and you can certainly come up with alternatives if you wish) is to do the following:
The Nation's habitat-fleets typically spend some considerable time in a given region of space. Thus, there are scattered regions which are currently occupied by a Nation fleet, where many of the Nation's people are working and living. They would presumably have patrols of the Nation's armed forces moving around to protect their people. These isolated regions would be modeled as sectors under your control- but it is certainly reasonable for a sector of the Nation to evacuate in response to attack, rather than standing its ground and fighting it out.
However, this would only be practical in neutral territory unclaimed by other nations. Operating inside another nation's borders, a Nation fleet would have to abide by the laws of its host and refrain from things like illegal mining operations if it wants to stay out of trouble. The Nation fleets which reside inside a host nation's territory would not be modeled as sectors under your control; they would instead be modeled as trade routes, the way you've already come up with.
Thus, you might spend (let's say) 10 NCP buying ten individual map tiles scattered across the board, each of which represents a large concentration of your space gypsies. And you might spend (say) 10 more NCP on trade routes, along the same lines you've already come up with. And then the remaining NCPs would be spent on the homeland.
Then you would calculate a GDP accordingly.
Only later would you calculate the point value of whatever assets you have for war. The total aggregate value of all the military assets you possess is determined by your GDP.
Does that make sense?
The population of your fleet is totally 100% your choice. It can be roughly equal to the settled population I suggested for a stationary polity of your NCP value, or it can be larger, or smaller, as you choose. It is also 100% your choice to decide the number of ships that you house people in but which do not themselves have the power to cause harm to an enemy by their presence during war.
Side note: the Technocracy of Umeria would not allow the People to do significant mining or other extraction operations in Umerian space without permits and fee structures. If a significant population of the People stayed there for an extended length of time, the Technocracy would probably start getting nosy, and the Ministry of Welfare would start hassling them about things like how they educated their children and stuff. They can be pretty intrusive about things like that.
Also, there is no such thing as religious freedom in Umeria, there are only social organizations the Umerians don't feel any particular reason to care about. A religion has the same legal status as a gardening club, and the Technarchs will shut down a gardening club if they feel it's becoming a nuisance.
Indeed, the Nation would probably find the Technocracy an oppressive and unpleasant place to live, as they would be chronically disrespectful of the Doxa and its strictures, and would refuse to allow the People to live there under their own laws for any great length of time.
This is not because I bear you any malice, Rabid. Nor is it because I think it would be a good thing for a nation to behave this way in any objective sense. It's simply that I'd already worked all of this out in the past, more or less, and that I'm applying my existing knowledge of how my nation works to a new situation.
Umeria is not a paradise, and I know this perfectly well- it's intentional.
It's more like the "trade relationship" that exists between, say, the US and China: many ships moving constantly back and forth, stopping in ports and dropping things off, with interchange of cultural ideas and corporations operating on both ends of the route and so on.
I would imagine that usually, the trade route represents an ongoing relationship: "I have been trading with you for years," just as the sectors I own are usually territory I've owned for years.
As long as you're comfy with this, we should be OK.
Possible, but not necessary.Imperial528 wrote:I've been in RPGs with nomadic nations before and every way I have seen it handled (and handled it myself) is that there is a range of territory that the nomads move around in, and for purposes external to the nation itself that territory is treated as any other.
It may be possible to adapt that here.
For example, I wouldn't actually mind Rabid's nation being dispersed into multiple areas across the map.
Also possible, but not necessary.White Haven wrote:Or they're nomadic on a long time scale, I.E. move into region of space, strip-mine it to the bones, then move on. As long as the time-scale is long enough, it doesn't have to be mechanically nomadic during the game itself.
This would be permitted. But then, remember that the Nation's fleets may be attacked by foreign enemies or neutral marauders, and also that their aid and resources might be solicited in local conflicts.Rabid wrote:The way I see it, the Stellar Nation is going to have 3 sectors that are under its possession, which they use as their exclusive territories, where an important part of their industrial capacity is concentrated ; but the people itself is dispersed all around the Known Galaxy, in fleets of a thousand of Habitat-Ships, each habitat housing a million people, for a Fleet of a Billion of Brothers and Sisters. They are everywhere people accept them, only returning to the Nation's territories to allow their own people to go on pilgrimage and to maintain & repair their fleets and to exchange with their brothers and sisters the goods and stories they amassed during their travels.
The territories themselves are going to take only 12 NCP. Would it be possible to trade 10 NCP to "simulate" roughly two thousands years worth of constant shipbuilding, hull retrofitting and population growth ?
25 + 6 = 31 NCP => 12 NCP for my Territories [GDP : $21,000] ; 10 NCP for my bigass fleet ; and 9 Trade-routes to simulate my relation with the other "nations" which host some of the Stellar Nation's fleets [GDP : $18,000]
GDP according to rules : $39,000
I do not much care how many populated 'civilian' ships your people possess to house their population; that is entirely within your judgement.
However, you do NOT need to expend NCP for these roving 'Gypsy fleets.' You spend NCP to gain economic resources that make you money. This will matter later, when you calculate how many armed ships your civilization has to defend its roving star-caravans.
The real question is how to adjudicate the NCP value of one of the Nation's habitat-fleets. My suggestion (and you can certainly come up with alternatives if you wish) is to do the following:
The Nation's habitat-fleets typically spend some considerable time in a given region of space. Thus, there are scattered regions which are currently occupied by a Nation fleet, where many of the Nation's people are working and living. They would presumably have patrols of the Nation's armed forces moving around to protect their people. These isolated regions would be modeled as sectors under your control- but it is certainly reasonable for a sector of the Nation to evacuate in response to attack, rather than standing its ground and fighting it out.
However, this would only be practical in neutral territory unclaimed by other nations. Operating inside another nation's borders, a Nation fleet would have to abide by the laws of its host and refrain from things like illegal mining operations if it wants to stay out of trouble. The Nation fleets which reside inside a host nation's territory would not be modeled as sectors under your control; they would instead be modeled as trade routes, the way you've already come up with.
Thus, you might spend (let's say) 10 NCP buying ten individual map tiles scattered across the board, each of which represents a large concentration of your space gypsies. And you might spend (say) 10 more NCP on trade routes, along the same lines you've already come up with. And then the remaining NCPs would be spent on the homeland.
Then you would calculate a GDP accordingly.
Only later would you calculate the point value of whatever assets you have for war. The total aggregate value of all the military assets you possess is determined by your GDP.
Does that make sense?
The armed strength of your fleet will add up to something in the range of... several tens of thousands of points (more, less, whatever, it all depends on exactly what your GDP is)Rabid wrote:I think my fleet & population estimate may be too much, but I await S_J's opinion on the subject.
The population of your fleet is totally 100% your choice. It can be roughly equal to the settled population I suggested for a stationary polity of your NCP value, or it can be larger, or smaller, as you choose. It is also 100% your choice to decide the number of ships that you house people in but which do not themselves have the power to cause harm to an enemy by their presence during war.
Side note: the Technocracy of Umeria would not allow the People to do significant mining or other extraction operations in Umerian space without permits and fee structures. If a significant population of the People stayed there for an extended length of time, the Technocracy would probably start getting nosy, and the Ministry of Welfare would start hassling them about things like how they educated their children and stuff. They can be pretty intrusive about things like that.
Also, there is no such thing as religious freedom in Umeria, there are only social organizations the Umerians don't feel any particular reason to care about. A religion has the same legal status as a gardening club, and the Technarchs will shut down a gardening club if they feel it's becoming a nuisance.
Indeed, the Nation would probably find the Technocracy an oppressive and unpleasant place to live, as they would be chronically disrespectful of the Doxa and its strictures, and would refuse to allow the People to live there under their own laws for any great length of time.
This is not because I bear you any malice, Rabid. Nor is it because I think it would be a good thing for a nation to behave this way in any objective sense. It's simply that I'd already worked all of this out in the past, more or less, and that I'm applying my existing knowledge of how my nation works to a new situation.
Umeria is not a paradise, and I know this perfectly well- it's intentional.
Last edited by Simon_Jester on 2012-03-28 03:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Panzersharkcat
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Same here. I still have a few left over.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
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Skywalker_T-65
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Oh I'm aware of that, I think it is fairly obvious that Ivan has more than a few screws loose (assuming you are talking about my prologue). He genuinely thinks that destroying that ship will keep Arcadia isolated. And I am editing the chapter to move the year back a few more, that way it is an established trade route by the time the game starts. Oh, and he doesn't understand how a trade route works...most fanatics aren't very smart after all.
EDIT: Oh, and I realize it may have sounded odd when I said the 'new ship for that trade route' in the chapter...that is true, but it doesn't mean it is the only ship.
EDIT: Oh, and I realize it may have sounded odd when I said the 'new ship for that trade route' in the chapter...that is true, but it doesn't mean it is the only ship.
SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE
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Shinn Langley Soryu
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Kinda reminds me of how the Orks were structured in SDNW4, with a set of defined core territories and a bunch of unmarked outposts throughout the various shoal regions that collectively added up to the remainder of their alloted NCPs.Simon_Jester wrote:Possible, but not necessary.
For example, I wouldn't actually mind Rabid's nation being dispersed into multiple areas across the map.
Speaking of which, we need actual Orks.
I ship Eino Ilmari Juutilainen x Lydia V. Litvyak.
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
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Simon_Jester
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Orks are allowed as "non-player character" polities. You can make up whatever orks you wish, or not make up any orks. Bear in mind that orks are not under your control and may be manipulated by others in ways you do not enjoy, because they'll fight anything.
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OmegaChief
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Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
Oh hey Simon, while we're talking about the Technocracy, would the Umerian Science! divisions be at all interested in the Authorties whole 'Gravity Lense' thing you reckon?
And given that Umerian exports (Unless you're changing those rapidly from your SDNW4 stuff) would be vastly superior to Authority made parts, it could be the source of an interesting trade relationship (Or maybe even trade route).
Possibley a couple of interesting story ideas too if you liked the sound of that.
And given that Umerian exports (Unless you're changing those rapidly from your SDNW4 stuff) would be vastly superior to Authority made parts, it could be the source of an interesting trade relationship (Or maybe even trade route).
Possibley a couple of interesting story ideas too if you liked the sound of that.
This odyssey, this, exodus. Do we journey toward the promised land, or into the valley of the kings? Three decades ago I envisioned a new future for our species, and now that we are on the brink of realizing my dream, I feel only solitude, and regret. Has my entire life's work been a fool's crusade? Have I led my people into this desert, only to die?
-Admiral Aken Bosch, Supreme Commander of the Neo-Terran Front, NTF Iceni, 2367
-Admiral Aken Bosch, Supreme Commander of the Neo-Terran Front, NTF Iceni, 2367
Re: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread
@ Simon_Jester, RE : mechanics of nomadism :
Yeah, I like that.
Basically, I'd have these 3 fixed sectors (Terminus / The Hub / Ascension), and then 10 "colony" sectors I could swap around the map more or less freely, depending on the circumstances.
So $21,000 GDP from the permanent sectors, $20,000 GDP from the "Gypsy Sectors" and $18,000 GDP from my (outbound) commercial relations. Total : $59,000 GDP. We'll add later the GDP coming from Inbound trade routes...
Question : can I have more than one "trade route" with a single player, to simulate the presence of multiple "gypsy sectors" inside their territories (like in case of war they take refuge in allied territories, and the increased activity has positive fallout on the local economy) ?
Yeah, I like that.
Basically, I'd have these 3 fixed sectors (Terminus / The Hub / Ascension), and then 10 "colony" sectors I could swap around the map more or less freely, depending on the circumstances.
So $21,000 GDP from the permanent sectors, $20,000 GDP from the "Gypsy Sectors" and $18,000 GDP from my (outbound) commercial relations. Total : $59,000 GDP. We'll add later the GDP coming from Inbound trade routes...
Question : can I have more than one "trade route" with a single player, to simulate the presence of multiple "gypsy sectors" inside their territories (like in case of war they take refuge in allied territories, and the increased activity has positive fallout on the local economy) ?