Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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Eulogy
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Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by Eulogy »

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Article wrote:Parents everywhere know children can be expensive but Australians Rachel Evans and John Kan didn’t expect their baby daughter to come at a cost of nearly $1 million.

That’s what the BC Women’s Hospital says it’s owed after little Piper was born three months premature during a trip to Canada last August and had to spend three months in neonatal care.

The Sydney-area couple had travel insurance and were given the green light from their doctor to holiday overseas. But just as the couple was about to board their flight home, Evans, who was just 26 weeks pregnant, went into labour at the Vancouver International Airport and was rushed to hospital.

“We were very lucky to be at the airport when she came and not already in flight,” Evans told the Star from her home in Willoughby, a suburb of Sydney. “She came without warning, just suddenly started.”

Unbeknownst to Evans and Kan, their travel insurance policy didn’t cover the costs of the birth or the baby’s hospital care.

Now the couple is on the hook for nearly $1 million — the cost the hospital claims it incurred to look after Piper, who was born weighing just 862 grams — about 1 pound 9 ounces — for three months.

The bill works out to about $8,120 a day and does not include additional medical procedures or fees the family incurred while staying in Vancouver.

Evans says she and her husband were able to work out an agreement with the hospital that will see them paying $300 a month for the rest of their lives.
Still, Evans says she doesn’t begrudge the hospital for the bill and says she and her husband take full responsibility for not reading the fine print of their insurance policy.

“We just feel very lucky. We’d been trying to get pregnant for a long time,” said Evans, 42. “Piper is worth whatever we paid. It’s just too bad it was such a huge amount.”

Piper now weighs 5 ½ kilograms and is doing everything a healthy baby her age should be doing.

Evans noted that the Australian ministry of health and ageing is looking at her case to see if some of the cost could be covered by the national government.

Jan Christilaw, president of BC Women’s Hospital and Health Centre, said it is uncommon for an out-of-country family to require a long stay at the hospital and not have costs covered by insurance.

“As the family has acknowledged, BC Women’s does have a responsibility to B.C. taxpayers who fund our hospital health-care system, and as such, has taken steps to recover the cost of care,” she said in a statement to the Star.

“Given that each family situation is unique, BC Women’s works with each family to find a compassionate compromise to recover the cost of care, as well as to support the family with any information they might require to claim costs from insurers. We have done so in this situation.”

The B.C. health ministry said it has “sympathy” for Kan and Evans and recognizes “the challenge a bill of this amount presents.”

“However, similar to other publicly funded health-care systems, B.C. needs to be sure our resources are focused on eligible British Columbians, who ultimately fund the health-care services that are provided in B.C.,” said ministry spokesperson Kristy Anderson.

“We recommend that people purchase additional travel medical insurance, and as this case highlights, the public needs to be aware of the limitations of their private insurance policy to ensure that the policy meets their personal needs.”
Bolded for emphasis. This poor couple are now saddled with a debt they most likely can never pay, all because the woman's body went off at the wrong time; events beyond their control really fucked them over.

That $300 a month might not seem like much, but the couple better hope times are good for them all the time because there's no way they can pay that if their finances go to shit. And surpise, it turns out that their insurance is worthless, just like american "insurance" proves!
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by mr friendly guy »

This was in Australian news. From what I understand the travel insurance covers quite a bit, but not premature births. Not unreasonable to take it because they weren't expecting her to give birth.

I would advise anyone travelling overseas without reciprocal cover to a) take out travel insurance and b) check the travel insurance to see what it covers. I am have seen several people visit relatives in Australia without proper insurance and then get sick and cop a gigantic bill. I always take out travel insurance when I travel overseas and I check to see what it covers.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by Sea Skimmer »

That sucks, but hospital care is really expensive in any first world country. 8,120 dollars a day is actually on the cheaper side for intensive care, and even the most mundane stay will run three or four thousand a night. I would have thought though, that the Australian government might have or be able to help them out, and cancel out this debt with costs of care given to Canadians in Australia, but maybe no such balance exists or its just viewed as a traveler beware issue.

I wonder if declaring bankruptcy might have worked out better for them; though if it would mean loosing a house, then likely not.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by mr friendly guy »

Apparently Canada isn't one of the countries Australia has reciprocal care with. If the Australian government helped them out, I think there is a risk that someone else would ask for the same thing.

I think if they set up a semi charity organisation to donate money etc and let the public's generosity (if any) help them, they might have better luck.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Yeah it isn't recommended exactly, but looking on the interwebs, it appears that weeks 14 to 28 are considered safest and they flew towards the later half of that.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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Yeah, but she's 42... All statistical risks of complication rise with age.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by DudeGuyMan »

Australians, but the baby was born in Canada? What's the status of international debt collection and credit ratings? What if they just said fuck it and didn't pay?
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by madd0ct0r »

then they'd be taken to a civil court in canada (in absentia), and probably be unable to holiday there again.

Canada does not extradite civil court cases. I'm not so sure about the knock on international credit rating, but I think the dredit rating's less important outside North America generally.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by tim31 »

For a million dollars, I daresay there would be some discussion between the two governments over it. And they'd be labelled social pariahs in the Australian tabloid media. The last bit is more serious than it sounds.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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A couple such issues arose with Polish tourists abroad, and were usually resolved by the respective governments just agreeing, like adults, to transfer the costs of care between themselves.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by Aaron MkII »

Huh, that's the very hospital and program my mother used to work at and manage. I should call and ask what she thinks will happen.

For my money, I'll bet something like what PeZook is talking about will happen. I have a hard time seeing this actually continue. Might even lead to a long term reciprocal agreement.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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Stark wrote:Air travel when pregnant isn't recommended anyway. I guess they really wanted to get one last holiday in.
Yeah, agreed. Why take that unnecessary risk?
Aaron MkII wrote: For my money, I'll bet something like what PeZook is talking about will happen. I have a hard time seeing this actually continue. Might even lead to a long term reciprocal agreement.
Also agreed. That said, if the couple did not purchase the insurance coverage required they deserve to get hit at least with a portion of the costs.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by Phantasee »

It takes cases like this to establish agreements. Until someone shows the gaps in the system, the system has no reason to fill them in.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by dragon »

Well we know hospital raise the cost of everything which hits those with no insurance. Hell on my last visit I got a bill for 300 or so. My insurance said no that's only worth 100 of wich they paid 50.
So from the orginal bill of 300 I only payed 1/6 of it. So from that million I wonder how much the insurance would cut off.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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Thanas wrote:
Stark wrote:Air travel when pregnant isn't recommended anyway. I guess they really wanted to get one last holiday in.
Yeah, agreed. Why take that unnecessary risk?
Aaron MkII wrote: For my money, I'll bet something like what PeZook is talking about will happen. I have a hard time seeing this actually continue. Might even lead to a long term reciprocal agreement.
Also agreed. That said, if the couple did not purchase the insurance coverage required they deserve to get hit at least with a portion of the costs.
I will give them credit for owning up to the mistake and not hitching.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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Bitching, fucking tablet.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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madd0ct0r wrote:then they'd be taken to a civil court in canada (in absentia), and probably be unable to holiday there again.

Canada does not extradite civil court cases. I'm not so sure about the knock on international credit rating, but I think the dredit rating's less important outside North America generally.

I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but over the past decade i have seen thousands of American credit reports, and hundreds belonged to those from other countries. Not once did i see a foreign tradeline. Furthermore, at least here, foreign credit reports are damn near impossible to pull and in ten years in branch management i have NEVER even seen a foreign credit report. Canada may be different, but i don't think this debt is credit reportable... never mind collectable.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by tim31 »

Thanas wrote:
Stark wrote:Air travel when pregnant isn't recommended anyway. I guess they really wanted to get one last holiday in.
Yeah, agreed. Why take that unnecessary risk?
I ran the story past my friendly local obstetrician. He didn't agree with me that it was an unnecessary risk; the airline cleared them, and without actually knowing the patient history he couldn't give an opinion. To him the more important feature of the article in making people aware of the actual cost of healthcare.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by mr friendly guy »

list of countries Australia has reciprocal health care with
The Australian Government has signed Reciprocal Health Care Agreements (RHCA) with the following countries:

United Kingdom
Sweden
Finland
Norway
Belgium
Netherlands
Italy
Malta
New Zealand
Republic of Ireland
Wow. We have reciprocal health with Sweden, Finland and even Italy. But none with Canada, a fellow First World Commonwealth country. Maybe we should look into that. I am pretty sure we are on good terms with the Canadians.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by Solauren »

I'm surprised that there is no 'Commonwealth Reciprocal Health Care Agreement' actually.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by mr friendly guy »

Not all Commonwealth countries are as wealth in terms of GDP / capita as Australia or Canada, so I can understand there is some reluctance. Canada has roughly 50% more population than us, and is considered a wealth nation (presumably this is derived from GDP/capita) so we have a better chance to negotiating something there.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

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mr friendly guy wrote:This was in Australian news. From what I understand the travel insurance covers quite a bit, but not premature births. Not unreasonable to take it because they weren't expecting her to give birth.
Excuse me? She was pregnant when she left on the trip. She wasn't expecting to give birth while on the trip but if you're pregnant at all you're going to pop out a kid at some point. And prematurity happens.

Which is not to say I think everything is OK with the scenario - people in debt for the rest of their lives, high cost of medical care, fine print, insurance companies in general.... but yeah, if you're pregnant and purchasing travel insurance make sure it covers premature birth and such. Just in case.
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by mr friendly guy »

Broomstick wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:This was in Australian news. From what I understand the travel insurance covers quite a bit, but not premature births. Not unreasonable to take it because they weren't expecting her to give birth.
Excuse me? She was pregnant when she left on the trip. She wasn't expecting to give birth while on the trip but if you're pregnant at all you're going to pop out a kid at some point. And prematurity happens.

Which is not to say I think everything is OK with the scenario - people in debt for the rest of their lives, high cost of medical care, fine print, insurance companies in general.... but yeah, if you're pregnant and purchasing travel insurance make sure it covers premature birth and such. Just in case.
She wasn't expecting a premature birth obviously. Yes it happens, but I am pretty sure most people don't have premature births and they were most probably expecting the same result to apply to them.

Edit - as with all types of insurance people do try and take what they expect will cover their needs, and usually that doesn't include the maximum cover the company offers. They most probably took their current policy with the thought that she will be back with time to spare before needing to give birth. This strikes me as a case of how risk averse people are. Do we take the full lot just "in case", or just what seems likely to cover our needs?
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Re: Ludicrous medical bills don't discriminate

Post by SCRawl »

Just to think about this for a moment, the policy they purchased probably covered just about everything for the couple. The problem they ran into was simply that a third person suddenly needed an insane amount of medical care, and that person wasn't named on the policy. It seems logical to me that the actual birthing procedure should have been covered, so I'm assuming that it was specifically (and perhaps intentionally) left out.

So, yeah, a reciprocal agreement sounds like a nice way to go.
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