Fat acceptance in TNG

[Eternal_Freedom]

Anyone who loves you and cares about your health?

Beyond that, since I'm going to assume that spaceviking doesn't feel that way towards SS dude. If someone wants to be fat then that's their choice, isn't it?

Yes, it's their choice to be fat. But even though it's their choice it does not mean everyone else has to be accepting of it. I will tolerate it but not accept it.

Because as South Park said: "Tolerance means you put up with something, not like it. If you had to like it it would be called acceptance."

I would say the bigger question isn't "why isnt there fat acceptance in TNG/whenever?" but rather "why should there be fat acctptance at all, anywhere, anytime?"

[Aaron MkII]

Fat or not, people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, hell Star Trek taught us that plenty of times.

Sometimes I wonder if the members of SDN ever watched the shows.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Fat or not, people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, hell Star Trek taught us that plenty of times.

Sometimes I wonder if the members of SDN ever watched the shows.

If it's a medical consition, or they became fat because of a medical condition, then fine, I will treat them like anyone else. If, however, it is something they have consciously chosen, then it's thie rproblem. They chose to be fat and they therefore chose to accept the consequences of that choice.

[Aaron MkII]

Dude, you don't have to accept it but it would be nice if they didn't get treated like shit. Now I'm not saying you do this but plenty of times on the board and outside it being fat means that's its ok to treat them like crap.

That's something I'm not cool with, frankly I don't care if someone is fat or not, its their choice.

[Aaron MkII]

Nah he was pretty hefty in a barrel chested sort of way.

link

Best pic I could find of him standing up.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ok, I'll say my position again just to be clear:

I will tolerate fat people. I treat them with dignity and respect (unless they're being a fucking idiot, but that goes for anyone). I understand that in some cases being fat is due to a medical condition etc, and that's fine, shit happens, I know that myself ith glaucoma.

However, if it's you're choice to be fat enough to cause problems for others, that's different. I tihnk this is the distinction you're missing: when I say "fat " in this thread I'm referring to people who need some special consideration like wider seats or a moblity scooter or whatever, not people who just like cheesburgers or whatever and dont like excersise (I know plenty of people in this category, it bothers me vaguely but hey, it's their body.)

I will tolerate any life choice someone decides to make, unless it starts having a major impact on me or those that I care about on a regular basis.

[Batman]

There's 'you're decidedly over your optimal body weight' fat and there's 'you seriously impact the lives of other people because of your fatness' fat. Valen knows I'm not a healthy eater myself, and I know several people that would be better off losing a few pounds, but the point is they still fit in a single seat. Nobody else is suffering from them being fat. As long as the massively fat people acknowledge they are, I don't have a problem with that. If they buy two seats on the train, or in the theater, or on a plane, I have no problem with that. I do if you take up half of mine.

[Eternal_Freedom]

There's 'you're decidedly over your optimal body weight' fat and there's 'you seriously impact the lives of other people because of your fatness' fat. Valen knows I'm not a healthy eater myself, and I know several people that would be better off losing a few pounds, but the point is they still fit in a single seat. Nobody else is suffering from them being fat. As long as the massively fat people acknowledge they are, I don't have a problem with that. If they buy two seats on the train, or in the theater, or on a plane, I have no problem with that. I do if you take up half of mine.

My sentiments exactly. I draw a line between "overweight" and "fat." Overweight isnt a problem - I probably am myself, I'm living on student monies and cooking which is never a healtthy proposition. But properly fat is a whole different thing.

I class it along with most everything else: I dont care what choice you make just dont press it on my or be all in-my-face about it.

[Aaron MkII]

Fair enough on both. My philosophy is "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone"

[tim31]

How is that guy fat?

The jumpsuit they had him in may not have flattered

[KhorneFlakes]

I'm surprised Havok hasn't commented here yet.

[Aaron MkII]

Why?

[KhorneFlakes]

Because. Whenever the word fat is mentioned multiple times in a thread, I've noticed it usually attracts Havok.

Like how saying Stas Bush will attract Stas Bush. Or maybe I'm just thinking that because Havok has said he is (or at least claims to be) fat. Or something. I probably shitposted.

[Aaron MkII]

Well he's been playing ME3 with me for the last three hours.

[Simon_Jester]

In Star Trek, diversity is celebrated. Being fat doesn't have to hurt anyone else, so the real question is: why wouldn't it be ok?

In today's world, you might say it puts that person's health at risk. I'd ask, isn't that their choice? In Star Trek, such health problems may have been solved. A wave of Dr. Crusher's magic wand, or a magic pill from Dr. McCoy's bag can probably cure heart disease and the other consequences associated with fatness today; they can fix most everything else.

Perhaps you think they are a strain on the medical system. To that, I just say "meh", we can afford to support people's individual freedoms. It is probably a small cost to the Federation anyway.

Then again, their fatness is also probably fixable- the same magic pills might also influence metabolism.

Very few people would actually choose to be fat versus not so fat, all else being equal. The choice certain people really make is "I choose to eat a lot of calories and not get much exercise," not "I choose to be fat." Maybe in Star Trek, people don't make that combination of choices. If great-tasting diet food is easily available, or if there are relatively cheap ways to alter your body's metabolism to avoid fatness without having to spend long hours exercising, nearly every person who might otherwise be fat would probably take those options.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Sometimes it's not much of a choice at all. If the only job a guy can get is a sedentary job in front of a computer for 10 grueling hours a day (2 of them unpaid, but still required), is it really his choice to be fat? After a full, stressful day of work, I know I don't have the energy to work out. Hell, I barely have the energy to cook or do dishes. Combine poor nutrition due to lack of education, funds and availability, and you're looking at a lifestyle with only one result.

[Bakustra]

Sometimes it's not much of a choice at all. If the only job a guy can get is a sedentary job in front of a computer for 10 grueling hours a day (2 of them unpaid, but still required), is it really his choice to be fat? After a full, stressful day of work, I know I don't have the energy to work out. Hell, I barely have the energy to cook or do dishes. Combine poor nutrition due to lack of education, funds and availability, and you're looking at a lifestyle with only one result.

Yeah, blaming fatness totally on the individual becomes fucked up when you examine the consequences, which become "Germans are superior to Canadians, who are superior to Australians, who are superior to Americans, who are superior to Mexicans", perhaps cloaked in a veil of "culture". But societally, we can see that the majority of people in the US work sedentary jobs, drive to work and don't have a schedule or lifestyle that makes it easy for them to incorporate working out into their daily life. Combine this with the ease of access to sugary and fatty foods, and the high-carbohydrate diets that remain even though they're inappropriate for modern life, and the fact that a lot of the working poor simply don't have the ability to eat anything other than fast food and snack foods, and you can see poorer people in the US are most likely to be overweight and obese. Mexico probably has similar reasons behind its obesity epidemic, but I've never lived there.

Now, that doesn't mean that maintaining a healthy weight is impossible for people, but it's harder and seems out of reach, and American education and society don't really bother with the idea that physical exercise should be a habit rather than a luxury- look at how gyms are presented in pop culture, or how physical education works in most American public schools.

[Manus Celer Dei]

What about civilians, though?

It just seems a little off given the leisurely lifestyle they would seem to enjoy (and that I'm looking forward to!)

So your ideal future is waddling your fat ass around and eating replicator cupcakes?

Dude if you had a site-to-site transporter you could probably get the cupcakes beamed directly into your mouth.

[Batman]

SNIPPY for length

But that's just it. You're arguing that people in the US don't have much of a choice. UFP citizens absolutely do. So why would there be fat people in the UFP? There's zero advantage in being fat, the reason a lot of the US is (no affordable healthy food) has been removed, the medical reasons have likely been done away with,why would there be fat people in the UFP?

[Bakustra]

Thank you for completely misunderstanding the point and purpose of my post!

[spaceviking]

What about civilians, though?

It just seems a little off given the leisurely lifestyle they would seem to enjoy (and that I'm looking forward to!)

So your ideal future is waddling your fat ass around and eating replicator cupcakes?

If it is? Who gives a fuck?

Well Eternal Freedom covered my position pretty well, but I will clarify my point. I don't think people should be persecuted for being fat. That being said Starshipdudes attitude is disgusting. It is one thing to be overweight because of medical reason, lack of education, access to facilitates or even lack of will power; It is another to advocate that lifestyle as an ideal. Starshipdude does not just want a future where he will not be denied promotion because of his appearance, he wants a future that embraces his lifestyle. Being fat is not the same as being gay, transexual etc.

[Connor MacLeod]

But that's just it. You're arguing that people in the US don't have much of a choice. UFP citizens absolutely do. So why would there be fat people in the UFP? There's zero advantage in being fat, the reason a lot of the US is (no affordable healthy food) has been removed, the medical reasons have likely been done away with,why would there be fat people in the UFP?

I think the point being conveyed is that from the federation POV, issues like 'advantage/disadvantage' cease to become relevant because technology and resources make such considerations trivial, and it's largely up to personal choice.

A different example: If you live in a society with relatively plentiful (if not cheap) power and the enviromental consequences can be dealt with without problems, efficiency issues (analogues to 'miles per gallon' in a car) become trivial, so there isn't much issue between driving a stylish looking but inefficient vehicle and a more practical but less stylish one.

[spaceviking]

Well there is the myriad of reasons why obesity is bad for society as a whole; high healthcare costs, danger to emergency personal. Having society accept and embrace gay lifestyles will not hurt society, telling people that being obese is simply a lifestyle choice will. Obesity is health problem to be fixed.

[Aaron MkII]

People are making the point in this thread that it may simply not be an issue given their medical technology. Why is that being ignored?

[Stofsk]

Nobody is ignoring it, it's just not something we're given information about. Actually if anything there doesn't appear to be any magic 'fat loss pill' that some people believe exists. McCoy put Kirk on lettuce in 'The Corbomite Manuever' because his weight was a little up, and as he got older he put on more and more weight which didn't go away. Same goes for Scotty.

Fast forward to the 24th century. Given they have synthehol, which is like alcohol without the drunkeness or hangover, I think it's more likely that replicators make healthy food selection and preparation a lot easier for people. But ultimately we have a limited selection sample to analyse this - everyone we see is going to be in Starfleet, and my earlier point from page one still stands: how many fat astronauts do you see in real life, let alone on a fictional TV show?