SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

[Simon_Jester]

Unbecoming. Right. This still better be a April Fools. Otherwise, if this is actually serious, I really don't want to play SDNW5, because you gave RogueIce four things which are bad.

More than one 6000 point giggalodreadnought.
Over 100,000 total GDP.
You let him play as something as unimaginative as ponies.
55 NCP.

Simon, as I said above, if this is indeed serious, I do not want to play. It's outright bullshit, and it almost borders on dishonesty, allowing RogueIce's nation to be ridiculouly OP. I found my own giggalodreadnought to be fine because there would only ever be one, and while powerful, all major nations can likely defeat it.

So yes. I will be bitter if this is true. But if it is not, then I defer to my previous post that RogueIce is a very boring person, but I will have no ill will towards him or you, for that matter.

However, again, if this is serious, I really do not think you even deserve to be the current mod for the game Simon, because I will emphasize this one last time:

If this is serious, it is bullshit and it is not funny, and that you AND RogueIce should be barred from participating in the next SDNW, if there ever is one, because you decided to be a bunch of chucklefucks and start shitting out stupid ideas.

And for the love of god, please don't be serious, Simon and RogueIce. Please. I would say that I beg of you, but I refuse to beg in case it is indeed serious.

Please, Simon.

You know, for someone who's supposed to be playing a civilization of crazy wacky postalien worshippers of the color grue, you really were having trouble processing the idea of a joke.

Ask yourself: should you be playing SDNW5 even though it was a joke? If something that's got a high probability of being an April Fool's prank has you making all these dramatic "I vow that I will not stand for this wickedness" type statements, and has you right on the edge of ragequitting before game start, what will you do the first time something you disapprove of happens inside the game?

Will I have to keep bending the game around to stay inside the limits of what you're willing to put up with, because otherwise you'll hold your breath and turn blue?

[OmegaChief]

Does seem like a bit of a strong reaction there KF, I mean you've got a soceity who's national sport is Footbomb, and constructed around raving about a certian colour, who's backstory mostly consists of nonsensical sillyness that you do mostly because it amuses you.

None of the other players have raised a fuss about this, despite it clearly being very very silly.

And that's in comparision to BEEEEES or the Holy Empire's Magical Girl Special Forces teams or Umerian mad science or Hellenistic technology that the universe puts it's hands over it's eyes to pretend it can't see working or Capellans attempting to arrest actors who play bad guys on TV because clearly they're evil or...

But yea, everyone has a right to be silly or go with ideas they don't like, even if a couple of other players might not like/find it too silly, you might want to reconsider your own direction and participation if you're having trouble with that like Simon said.

But in short, just chill man, it was a joke, they happen.

[Rabid]

You know, if there's anything I learned in 5+ years of playing this kind of game full of role-play and player interaction, is to Never Reject Someone Else's Role-play, however obnoxious or annoying it can be to you as a player, but to take it from an in-universe perspective and to make your own Characters/Empires interact with their RP in a manner most faithful to your own RP.

Trust me, if you just play the game and don't block yourself over your initial dislikes, you can take any shitty role-play and turn it into something grandiose. It only takes a bit of work and imagination.

In short, don't reject what is Different, and use it to inject life into the game. If not, well... I think Shroom and Stark and my humble person have ranted enough time about these "concentration camps of the mind" for you to see where would lie my objections... You'd condemn yourself to always play the same game, full of the same bland stereotypes of Space UN / United Federation of Planets / whatever.





Now, the 55 NCP and the calendar's date should have been a dead giveaway anyway that it was only a joke.
But even then, if RogueIce had had a fair dice-roll, considering we already have cat people, talking deathclaws, and starships IA making love to their Captain, I don't think it would be anything else than hypocrisy to criticize someone wanting to play brightly colored quadrupeds with innate psionic abilities.
Why, I'm already imagining ways it could be implemented in interesting ways in the Galaxy we are planning...

[Rabid]

Edit : another thing I've learned :

If there's something that bugs you in someone's RP, don't reject it and say "no, that's not possible". Indeed, acknowledge it and try to find your own way to justify in your own Role-play, challenge yourself to see how it could fit in your own views of the game.
Like, constantly put into question everything you see in the game and try to come up with explanations as to why things are as they are. And never hesitate to "go back to the drawing boards" if your hypothesis are disproved.
That's a bit tiresome, but I find it very rewarding and a bunch of fun, in its own way.

[OmegaChief]

Which leads to good fun! Like the ideas Simon and Esquire for thier scientists to look at each otehrs tech and go "But how the hell does that work?"

[Skywalker_T-65]

Or for people to keep poking Space Sweden (Arcadia) to see what happens. I'm already planning on working something like that up with one of the other players once we get a map hashed out. This is going to be fun...

[KhorneFlakes]

Didn't you read my other posts at all? Man, I am over it. Stop poking me for it.

[Akhlut]

It's also good general advice for all people in the game. It's not specific to you, KF, but can and should be something all the players keep in mind. I really think Rabid's explanation about not rejecting other people's roleplay should be in the guidelines/rules/whatever up in the Rule Zero portion.

So, it's good that you're over it, however, I think it has led to something important that can be generalized for everyone.

(sorry if I'm sounding accusatory or something, I'm not trying to do that in the least; pure text isn't good for conveying a whole lot)

[Simon_Jester]

I will insert it into an addendum to Rule Zero, come to think of it.

KF, I don't care if you're over this now that you understand it was a joke. This was not the problem, since I don't think RogueIce was actually planning to play the Empire of Space Ponies, and even if he did, he doesn't have 55 NCPs or 6000-pt battleships. My official word to RogueIce on the Space Ponies is that I will not stop him from playing them, although I reserve the right to mock him.

The problem is not this one thing, it is: "what is the next thing?" Will you lose your shit over the next person whose nation concept you don't like? Or will you watch your temper and be tolerant of people with ideas that you don't like?

But even then, if RogueIce had had a fair dice-roll, considering we already have cat people, talking deathclaws, and starships IA making love to their Captain, I don't think it would be anything else than hypocrisy to criticize someone wanting to play brightly colored quadrupeds with innate psionic abilities.

Wait, when did the underlined happen? I didn't see that.

(I ask because while I've got a shipboard AI in the works, I know I don't write them that way)

[KhorneFlakes]

I didn't lose my shit. I was putting in a "why this is bullshit" just in case it was serious, and thought it was likely a joke. Albeit, a stupid boring one.

So no. Simon, stop complaining. It is over.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't care about your reaction to the April Fool's thing. But Rogue had his sense of humor surgically removed at the age of seven, and if he can troll you to the extent of you getting up on your high horse about it with a "HOW DARE YOU SIMON" leap to conclusions, you have a deeper problem than this one thing.

I expect to see it coming up again, if you refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem.

[Rabid]

But even then, if RogueIce had had a fair dice-roll, considering we already have cat people, talking deathclaws, and starships IA making love to their Captain, I don't think it would be anything else than hypocrisy to criticize someone wanting to play brightly colored quadrupeds with innate psionic abilities.

Wait, when did the underlined happen? I didn't see that.

(I ask because while I've got a shipboard AI in the works, I know I don't write them that way)

You remember this little draft of the second part of my Prologue I sent you ? Well, after having more or less worked-out the dialogs and ironed the consistency of what's happening on screen, I'm adding a fair bit of narration and bits of maybe-not-so-subtle subtext for the reader to decipher.


@ KF : Chill out, man, don't take it for yourself. The players are not, in fact, out there to get you. We're just jumping on what happened to address in advance any similar issue there could be in the future. Not from you in particular but from everyone in general.
Relax, it's just a game. Here, have a taco !

[Skywalker_T-65]

You see, I'm perpetually chill...very little gets under my skin. Hence playing as Space Sweden, it fits my personality the best. And we can also be like the Space Geneva, where people go to settle disputes before war comes. Which of course opens up terrorist attacks or preemptive strikes on the leadership of whatever nations come to Space Geneva (whichever sector I decide on using...and if Simon approves). Oh the story potential in that...I'm going to enjoy that tangent (if I can do it).

(Also, I'm planning on having mostly fringe nutjobs like Ivan in the prologue for the majority of my story posts...just forewarning everyone, because unless I get in a mega-colobarative thing that is what will happen...keeps things more interesting).

[Rabid]

You see, I'm perpetually chill...

Maybe you should consider seeing a doctor ? Or are you actually Swedish ?

[Skywalker_T-65]

No I'm not actually Swedish . Though I do wonder sometimes, since I don't know where my family originated (the theory is Germany, but I don't know for sure...). I'm from Missouri actually, so I've never even been to Sweden. But I was telling the truth there, it takes a LOT to get me angry. So it would take some super-attack to get Arcadia to actually attack you (well, attack beyond just a few raids). Like attacking the homeland (Arcadia Sector).

EDIT: Not worthy of a new post, but Simon, I looked at your OOB and I can tell you focus on swarms of weaker ships. Its a bit depressing when my destroyer overpowers your cruiser.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

The Three Stars' Block and Unificationalism: Two hundred and thirty eight years into the Age of War, five roughly allied nations based out of three star systems (Darwinia, Shin Hokkaido and Aquatica)...

Emphasis mine. Needless to say, Zor, you have a LOT of explaining to do.

[Simon_Jester]

The Three Stars' Block and Unificationalism: Two hundred and thirty eight years into the Age of War, five roughly allied nations based out of three star systems (Darwinia, Shin Hokkaido and Aquatica)...

Emphasis mine. Needless to say, Zor, you have a LOT of explaining to do.

Hm. Interesting.

EDIT: Not worthy of a new post, but Simon, I looked at your OOB and I can tell you focus on swarms of weaker ships. Its a bit depressing when my destroyer overpowers your cruiser.

Did I focus on a large fleet of smaller warships?

Or did you focus on a small fleet of larger warships?

Which of us has the more realistic naval doctrine? How badly should I feel depressed?

And also, where are you getting those build figures from, anyway? How did you arrive at them? Did you pull them out of a hat? We will have naval construction rules in time, you see.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

...And I guess I'm the dick here. Seems like both Zor and Siege came up with the concept of a Shin Hokkaido independently of each other. One of Zor's posts in his art thread dated to 2009 or thereabouts makes reference to a Shin Hokkaido, while Siege has said that the United Solarian Sovereignty (and its own iteration of Shin Hokkaido) has existed in one form or another long before SDNW4.

Carry on.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Well...it was meant as a joke...I wasn't trying to be taken seriously. And for the record, yes I pulled those build numbers out of nowhere, hence asking if we had a specific rule set. I am well aware that they will be changed once said rules are up.

And my fleet isn't very small by any means, (the three hundred strong escort class, over a hundred strong frigates, etc.), just that the swarms of smaller ships are generally stronger one for one than equivalent ships from other nations. And I didn't mean for you to feel depressed...that's just my way of saying it was funny. Like 'man, its depressing that he still hasn't learned to debate' (which is me ironically enough...). As for who has a more realistic naval doctrine...depends on what you plan with the ships. Arcadian ships are larger and stronger than an a ship from another nation since they are meant to be used on the defense. They don't need to invade other nations territory, so we aren't building a bunch of small speedy ships.

[Simon_Jester]

Well...it was meant as a joke...I wasn't trying to be taken seriously. And for the record, yes I pulled those build numbers out of nowhere, hence asking if we had a specific rule set. I am well aware that they will be changed once said rules are up.

And my fleet isn't very small by any means, (the three hundred strong escort class, over a hundred strong frigates, etc.), just that the swarms of smaller ships are generally stronger one for one than equivalent ships from other nations.

Don't beat yourself up, kid...

And I didn't mean for you to feel depressed...that's just my way of saying it was funny. Like 'man, its depressing that he still hasn't learned to debate' (which is me ironically enough...). As for who has a more realistic naval doctrine...depends on what you plan with the ships. Arcadian ships are larger and stronger than an a ship from another nation since they are meant to be used on the defense. They don't need to invade other nations territory, so we aren't building a bunch of small speedy ships.

We could argue this back and forth, mind you- if you're playing defense, don't you run into trouble if you only have a small number of ships to spare to cover each objective?

What actually happened when I constructed this organization (it's pretty much the same as it was in SDNW4) was that I wanted to put a noticeable naval garrison in every system I controlled. Right away, that meant I'd need hundreds and hundreds of small warships, plus more to escort my 'battleline' of capital ships.

Another contributing factor is that my cutter-tender carriers are very small. Doctrinally, the reason for that is that they never need to be exposed to combat, and so it's better to have lots and lots of them that I can split up to cover more ground (filling an entire sector with tenders located every 20-30 light years apart, say), instead of having only one launch platform in a single, central location where it can get blown up easily.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I don't have a whole lot of major systems to guard though (the Colony sectors each have just one major system). I believe I have thirteen major systems to garrison. There are 768 ships to garrison said systems. So I have plenty of ships (if you want to be completely even in ships per system that would be: 59 or so ships). Which is nothing compared to your hundreds of smaller warships, but it should be sufficient to cover a system, considering that the larger ships (destroyer and up) are typically stronger one for one than other nations ships.

Now covering a whole sector gets more difficult, since each Sector has one fleet with 141 ships...with 63 ships for the 'Arcadian Mobile Defense Fleet'. It gets even more difficult in the Colony Sectors which have just the Fifth Fleet to cover them which would mean just 47 ships per sector, plus the 63-strong Mobile Fleet. Thus, it fits the mindset of a large chunk of Arcadian Politicians...leave the Colonies to their own defense fleets while putting up a token resistance and move the main fleets back to cover the larger homeland sectors (Arcadia, Reach, Kursk, Miyazaki). Is that a good doctrine? Not for the Colonies, but it does allow better defense of the larger sectors.

[Force Lord]

Kierger: *smugly points to his $900 superships* "When you need ridiculous firepower, you know whom to call."

[Skywalker_T-65]

You see, I don't need ridiculous firepower. Though it would be funny to see a bunch of 200-300 hundred point battleships blasting away at a 900 or higher supership.

[Rabid]

You see, I don't need ridiculous firepower. Though it would be funny to see a bunch of 200-300 hundred point battleships blasting away at a 900 or higher supership.

*cough* See the Doxa's Navy OOB and deduce its fleet doctrine.

[White Haven]

Er...one major system per colony sector? Bit of a snafu there, man. That's very, very powergamey with regards to the system defenses rules. In fact, it's specifically mentioned therein.

One: I do not advise concentrating your sector down to a mere one or two heavily populated star systems. This practice has a bad history in SDNW4 and is not encouraged in SDNW5.

That's what pre-game time is great for, though, finding the rough edges and dealing with them ahead of time.