Hungary outlaws homeless sleeping on streets

[kc8tbe]

First Philadelphia tries to ban feeding homeless people outdoors. Now, according to NPR, Hungary is simply outlawing homelessness altogether!
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/06/149526299 ... in-hungary

Hungary's new anti-vagrancy laws — the toughest in Europe — now mean that homeless people sleeping on the street can face police fines or even the possibility of jail time.

Advocacy and human-rights groups are alarmed by the new efforts to crack down on and effectively criminalize homelessness, where the ranks of the needy have increased during the country's dire financial crisis.

Debt, joblessness and poverty are on the rise. The country's bonds have been downgraded to "junk" status, and the nation's currency, the forint, has dropped sharply against the euro.

Hungary's homeless problem is on full display at the Danko street shelter, one of Budapest's largest, where 200 or more sleep every night.

...

The article goes on to talk about the sad state of Hungary's homeless shelters and the high number of homeless people who live in the country.

I can sort of see where this law is coming from -- people sleeping on the streets certainly doesn't help tourism or stimulate the local economy. I could even buy into a law banning sleeping on the streets if provisions were made for adequate food and shelter for the homeless. The long-term solution ought to be fixing the problems that lead to homelessness, not trying to hide the homeless. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case in Hungary.

[Themightytom]

Jail time is actually not a ridiculous proposal, assuming your criminal system includes a rehabilitation component. It would actually act as a vehicle for identifying and treating substance abuse or mental illness.

That being said, the guy who just can't find a job will get screwed and ultimately institutionalized, so it should be repeat offenders over a period of time.

now Fines... good luck collecting those, obviously if they had money they'd be spending it to get off the streets barring the above mentioned substance abuse issues, either way the state's not seeing a dime.

[K. A. Pital]

Fining or jailing homeless is simply pointless. Providing them with mandatory jobs (and a variety of job offers), however, is a better idea. At least some may be rehabilitated that way.

[PainRack]

Providing the homeless with mandatory job offers might not be the best solution, because they might not be able to hold a job due to their homelessness.

I just heard it said that it might actually be better if one gives them a "home" first, then go around solving their unemployment and etc later, at least, for the chronic vagrants/homeless.

[Solauren]

IMHO, the best option would be to
1 - Put them in jail, to identify what their problem is. Harsh, but hang on, it gets better
2 - If it's a case of 'no job', then skip the rehabilitation process.
3 - If they have some sort of problem beyond unemployment, get them the help they need. i.e Substance abuse problems, medical treatment, etc.
4 - Put them into government owned and controlled, and monitored (you don't come in the building unless you live there, armed guards enforce. If you want visitors, apointment needed unless they are family) facilities (apartments) and give them jobs, even if it's just street sweeping and the like. Once it's clear they can maintain themselves (which if they just didn't have a job, they could), help them find a job better suited to them. i.e "I used to work in a factory until it closed", so find them a job in manufacturing.
5 - Repeat offenders (that didn't lose their job due to the place they worked at closing), probably are going to require more time being evaluated. Repeat 'job disappeared due to closure' offenders are just unlucky.

[Simon_Jester]

This can only be a good idea in a society where having been to prison doesn't hurt your employment prospects.

Is that true in Hungary? Finland? Elsewhere in Europe?

[folti78]

First Philadelphia tries to ban feeding homeless people outdoors. Now, according to NPR, Hungary is simply outlawing homelessness altogether!
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/06/149526299 ... in-hungary

Hungary's new anti-vagrancy laws — the toughest in Europe — now mean that homeless people sleeping on the street can face police fines or even the possibility of jail time.

Advocacy and human-rights groups are alarmed by the new efforts to crack down on and effectively criminalize homelessness, where the ranks of the needy have increased during the country's dire financial crisis.

Debt, joblessness and poverty are on the rise. The country's bonds have been downgraded to "junk" status, and the nation's currency, the forint, has dropped sharply against the euro.

Hungary's homeless problem is on full display at the Danko street shelter, one of Budapest's largest, where 200 or more sleep every night.

...

The article goes on to talk about the sad state of Hungary's homeless shelters and the high number of homeless people who live in the country.

If only the government hasn't been slashed funding of shelters and charities last year. Of course they needed the money for more important things, like building new soccer stadiums*, badly timed power grabs in companies and corporate welfare for friendly oligarchs.

I can sort of see where this law is coming from -- people sleeping on the streets certainly doesn't help tourism or stimulate the local economy. I could even buy into a law banning sleeping on the streets if provisions were made for adequate food and shelter for the homeless. The long-term solution ought to be fixing the problems that lead to homelessness, not trying to hide the homeless. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case in Hungary.

Yeah right, it's like the difference between theory and practice. There is no difference, theoretically ...

The idiots in power (both local and nationwide), pretty much proved in the last 2 years that they doesn't care about what happens to anybody not in their upper ranks and they can't even understand basic economic principles too. They try to hide both, with increased nationalistic propaganda. Added to this is that most of them lives in their own little alternative reality, with minimal or no experience outside of their party and goverment jobs. Prime example from the article:

Maté Kocsis is the mayor of Budapest's 8th District, which has long been troubled by problems of drug abuse, homelessness, petty crime and prostitution. Kocsis was the first in the city to start enforcing the tough, new anti-homeless ordinance. He refused an interview request.

This young hotshot has the ideal FIDESZnyik carreer. He graduated from university in 2004 as a lawyer, got his second degree in 2006 as a political analyst, member of Budapest's 8th district council 2006-2010, 8th district mayor since 2010. Just plain beautiful, never a day spent outside the protective umbrella of his upper class parents and the party(his homepage doesn't mention, but i'm sure he have been involved with FIDESZ for a long time. It takes time to find sponsors and prove your loyalty in the party's feudal hierarchy). He of course refuses to give interview to any medium that aren't under strict government control. Just like the former (p)resident Schmitt, who only give "interview"** to the state television. The rest of the bunch not better either. Although the last time I heard about his laws last year that the local police stopped enforcing his decrees after a series of high profile action of activists. But then, they have to show some progress to the superiors, even when their budget has been slashed repeatedly. So they're foloowing the path of least resistance.

* a sport riddled with corruption, incompetence and brain drain. Also no one gives a fuck about it anymore, except hardcore fans, like the PM
** the best comment I read about that, is that you rarely see this kind of deep throating on prime time tv these days.

This can only be a good idea in a society where having been to prison doesn't hurt your employment prospects.

Is that true in Hungary? Finland? Elsewhere in Europe?

Exactly. Except the part that the Hungarian prison system is already overcrowded and underfunded, like any other government agency. I don't think how they can hold that many people safely before ad after trial(the courts are overworked too), unless the geniuses in power try to mimic Sheriff Joe's "solutions". Which will open up them to more scrutiny and backlash from the EU.

[Darth Fanboy]

The problem I have with the jailing is if the jailers have tthe ability to put people to work for less than minimum wage. The people jailed ultimately could end up becoming conscript labor.