SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

[cadbrowser]

This is going to be fun :

Robots enslaving sentients to preserve life Vs. AI run culture living in space to preserve life.

Fight !

(joking, but there's RP potential there...)

Yes, I agree! I am really looking forward to the RP part. Part of the whole reason I started playing RPGs to begin with. Just too much fun!

Well, I think you need to work on your spelling and grammar, and use fewer gratuitous apostrophes in your proper nouns, but contentwise... I see no problem.

Yes, I know I do...sometimes I go so fast that I disregard the spelling and grammar aspects (technique I learned when doing a rough draft to allow creativity to flow) and I didn't think to run it through MS Word. But, thank you nonetheless.

I like the concept, and it mirross one of my own AI's, we may have some "PLOT" to do toegther
Butt.......

It seems a bit too 'clean' too neat. The planet easily falls? No one gets killed? And on a planet advanced enough to make such an AI, they arent able to defend agains it's machines?

Again I love the idea, but it may need a bit of 'fleshing out' about just how it is able to steam roll it's home plantes population.

Thank you, Sounds good to me. We can totally do some plot together. I would like that.

I understand what you are saying, but try to envision it this way:

A group of people are sitting in a living room playing a game...let's say for flavor, D&D. Suddenly two people barg in the house and quickly shoot everyone with tranqualizer darts. Very quick, very neat, and no one dies at the hands of the intruders. Basically I applied this concept on a planetwide scale. But, for the sake of the story I don't mind suggestions to 'flesh" it out to make it better.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Note my first prologue post- Geppetto the AI? Part of what he does to pay the bills (and for the hell of it, because he actively enjoys it) is "friendliness verification." He scans prospective AI code and predicts whether or not the AI will turn out to be an asshole.

The essential problem of AI programming isn't that the robot will randomly "rebel" and go KILL ALL HUMANS. It's that it does exactly what you tell it and you give it orders it interprets incorrectly because you weren't careful:

For those with big AI's it is a very important thing to remember. I deal with my own "rampant" AI by having it become "a person" It became self aware with full emotions and decided that the whole "KILL ALL HUMANS" was just too much work.
It has gone on to start its own company, become a multi billionaire by selling electronic goods and computers that no one else could possibly design. Start up chairites, help the poor, and show up on morning talk shows. Basically becoming so "normal" in the eyes of my races that everyone forgets it is a massive computer that controls a dangerous amount of daily life.

Thank you, Sounds good to me. We can totally do some plot together. I would like that.

I understand what you are saying, but try to envision it this way:

A group of people are sitting in a living room playing a game...let's say for flavor, D&D. Suddenly two people barg in the house and quickly shoot everyone with tranqualizer darts. Very quick, very neat, and no one dies at the hands of the intruders. Basically I applied this concept on a planetwide scale. But, for the sake of the story I don't mind suggestions to 'flesh" it out to make it better.

NO worries, I look forward to any updates.
And I could see our AI's meeting, and perhaps helping yours giving him a 'PR' make over and a better public image. RUDI is good at that sort of thing.

[cadbrowser]

NO worries, I look forward to any updates.
And I could see our AI's meeting, and perhaps helping yours giving him a 'PR' make over and a better public image. RUDI is good at that sort of thing.

Before game start or after? Cause either would be fine; but the after could pose for some awesome RP!

Hopefully I can get another set of updates by early next week. That's my goal anyway.

[Simon_Jester]

NO worries, I look forward to any updates.
And I could see our AI's meeting, and perhaps helping yours giving him a 'PR' make over and a better public image. RUDI is good at that sort of thing.

Before game start or after? Cause either would be fine; but the after could pose for some awesome RP!

Hopefully I can get another set of updates by early next week. That's my goal anyway.

I encourage you to do both.

Yes, I know I do...sometimes I go so fast that I disregard the spelling and grammar aspects (technique I learned when doing a rough draft to allow creativity to flow) and I didn't think to run it through MS Word. But, thank you nonetheless.

I'm spoiled; I had able and demanding English teachers once upon a time. If you do try to correct your spelling and grammar on the fly, you reach a point where you can get content to flow quickly and be grammatical at the same time, with little or no need for spelling and grammar checkers.

I think that's good for the mind- worth pursuing if you get the chance. Of course, personally, I've found there's a price: wordiness. But you can't have everything.

Thank you, Sounds good to me. We can totally do some plot together. I would like that.

I understand what you are saying, but try to envision it this way:

A group of people are sitting in a living room playing a game...let's say for flavor, D&D. Suddenly two people barg in the house and quickly shoot everyone with tranqualizer darts. Very quick, very neat, and no one dies at the hands of the intruders. Basically I applied this concept on a planetwide scale. But, for the sake of the story I don't mind suggestions to 'flesh" it out to make it better.

Tranquilizers can and do kill people if you get the dosage wrong... I don't think "zero casualties" is believable.

But yes, there are ways to surprise and disable masses of people if the operation is prepared. I suggested a zillion tons of LSD for a reason- not because it wouldn't kill people, but because it's very effective at making them unable to offer effective resistance.

Note my first prologue post- Geppetto the AI? Part of what he does to pay the bills (and for the hell of it, because he actively enjoys it) is "friendliness verification." He scans prospective AI code and predicts whether or not the AI will turn out to be an asshole.

The essential problem of AI programming isn't that the robot will randomly "rebel" and go KILL ALL HUMANS. It's that it does exactly what you tell it and you give it orders it interprets incorrectly because you weren't careful:

For those with big AI's it is a very important thing to remember. I deal with my own "rampant" AI by having it become "a person" It became self aware with full emotions and decided that the whole "KILL ALL HUMANS" was just too much work.

Geppetto... well, he's actually a paperclip maximizer, but the thing he tries to maximize is his own understanding of intelligence in all its forms, which means he's too interested in people to be plotting to hurt them. Of course, without ethical research practices he'd be a nightmare-being, but fortunately someone got him onto the problem of rederiving moral philosophy from first principles.

(Yes, I am a moral absolutist, and it shows sometimes)

So now he just collects and churns masses of sociological and psychological data, programs AIs, works on his mathematically-rigorous general theory of politics (he's hoping to finish some time this century), and so on. Also plays the stock market sometimes.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Added Fluff on the different planets of the UISC as well as a backstory for my Rampant AI.
Should have hard numbers on fleet lists by Sunday.
As always feedback welcome

[Akhlut]

The Gray do make limited use of AIs, however, as they themselves are relatively literalminded and they have their AIs recognize the Grays as demigods, it's never come up as a problem, at least not yet.

And they do encourage other races to build their own AIs as paperclip maximizers, at least subtlety.

On another note, a lot of Scumdogia is remarkably similar to Steelport from Saints Row III, minus the existence of police. Or, at least, police who care about civilian causalities. With the addition of higher technology.

I also plan on there being a renegade Bastian named Professor Genki living on Scumdogia who hosts a hit television show: Professor Genki's Super Ethical Reality Climax.

It's in a ratings war with the Scumdog's own preferred show, Slaughterama.

When I have the time tomorrow, I will try to write up this little slice of life.

[Simon_Jester]

[Actually, this needs its own thread, come to think of it]

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Y'know, the Belkans being Belkans, if they were close to the Volsci they might be tempted to try and expand their territory.

That's a capital idea, but depending on how the map takes shape, it may not come to pass.

[Simon_Jester]

From KhorneFlakes:

Subject: SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

(Yep, I'm rejoining the game. I need some time to type out my new idea for this new nation, but the sum it up: They're a parody of North Korea, Soviet Russia, Tinpot dictators in general, with some Bragulanity thrown in their to spice it up. The state is controlled by a bizarre totalitarian-communist hybrid party, and their leader is obese. And wants to oppress lieberate the galaxy from the forces of healthy foods and skinny people.)

Excuse me, but could you explain what happened that makes you not want to play the Screworlders again? I find this a mildly worrying development...

To be honest, I just got sick of the idea. I focused too little on individual characters and more on the mass, something which combined with the constant crazyness made it hard for me to put a face on them, so to speak.

You know how Shroom made most Bragulans crazy, but they weren't all the same? That's what I'm trying to do now. To be honest the Screworlders were all the same to me, the way I thought of them. Not very good for personal stories.

My reply:

Good, glad to hear it. Your die roll stands.

And, when possible, please communicate with me in the open on the OOC thread. I have limited space for PMs, and it is generally better that any given conversation be had in public when it comes to this game. Only PM me if there's something you reasonably want me to know, but don't want others to know- say, because you don't want to tip off an upcoming plot, or because you need to register something with me when it's a secret from others.

[Akhlut]

This is from the map thread, but I figured it'd go better here instead of putting too much chatter in the map thread that isn't related to maps.

Operation Shroom Book already looked into the matter. He was the victim of a rare rye-mold infection.

Out of curiosity, if there were ever any border skirmishes or the like between the Kritarchy and Umeria, how would Umeria deal with that, especially their soldiers?

[Simon_Jester]

Extensive psychotherapy to cure the delusions of any participants who believe "Greys" were actually involved.

I've decided, fuck it, I'm gonna go the crazy route with this. And be consistent.

[Darkevilme]

That must make for interesting after action reports:
"We landed at site thirteen and were immediately attacked by funny big headed grey dudes FIVE
LIGHTS. One of them shot Bill in the arse but we were able to fight off the grey bastards FIVE LIGHTS before they were able to injure Bill too deeply."

[Simon_Jester]

I'm hoping that this will ultimately become annoying for the Greys... surely they would find this irritating? Otherwise there's not much point and the joke just becomes lame.

[Panzersharkcat]

It would certainly be irritating for the Bastians to be told they've had a several-millennium-long Cold War with swamp gas.

[Simon_Jester]

The Umerians are too polite to make a major point about this, especially to someone paranoid enough to construct a planet-wrecking hyperbazooka to wage war on swamp gas.

[Akhlut]

Oh, it does piss the Grays off. However, they aren't quite sure how to respond to it. Waging war on someone because their citizens killed one of your diplomats? That might not please most other governments, but they would at least understand it to some extent and probably still be willing to trade if it is the close equivalent of a nation invading Granada or some other super-small, poor nation.

But how the fuck do you respond to people who simply refuse to believe your existence? Can't go to war, as much as they would like, because that's not really a decent casus belli. So, they're fuming but not sure what to do about it.

Though, they certainly were happy to fund the Scumdogs' theft of Umerian ships.

[Crossroads Inc.]

So let me get this correct..

Basically the whole joke of the Grey's is they are out to make everyone think they don't exist, going out of their way to cover up history and probing and such?

Or is it just Panzersharkcat that don't believe in them?

[OmegaChief]

No, the whole joke is that the Umerians, in keeping with classical earth attitudes towards the grays, refuse to belive they exist, istead explaining them and thier ships away as mass hallucinations or swamp gas or tricks of the light and so on.

Everyone else seems to be prefectly fine with the Grays being a thing though, to the point the Bastions and Kyrptionians had a three way cold war with them at some point.

It's just from the Umerian point of view there was nothing for them to have a cold war with

[Skywalker_T-65]

I'm not sure exactly how Arcadia will view the Grays yet. Namely since I'm still not certain who exactly the Furlings knew before they got murderized down to a couple planets. If they were buddy-buddy with the Grays ('Oh my God...its the Asgard!!') then yeah, that would be important. Same story if it was the little gray guys who knocked them down in the first place.

Also, I can just see an Umerian meeting a Bastian...

'Why did you bother building that monster to use on swamp gas?'
'WHAT! There is no swamp gas...those are the Grays!'

EDIT: Actually...now that I look at the map, the Furling Empire's territory (modern Arcadia) is between Bastian and the Gray's, and right next to Earth. Possible fourth member of the Cold War that got wiped out in the crossfire? What...it could happen.

[Imperial528]

Cerna's reaction will likely be along the lines of "Hm, grays. Not expected, but not surprising, either." and the occasional history nerd "Yo, the late 2nd millennium called, they want their rubber foreheads back!"

[Simon_Jester]

Where will you be placing the OMNI nation? Is there a new map that I just didn't see the link to?

We shall begin by placing OMNI wherever you please, assuming none of your neighbors scream too loudly.

Where do you want it?

Ok well here is the thing...
It is hard to have a national name, because the UISC isn't really a "Nation" It is much more like a "Space UN" with just two powerblocks as its' members.
One being "The Tajlan Empire" and the other being the "Tri-World Alliance".

I mean it's basically us trying to find a name for the Earth "UN", nothing would apply.
SO In game, most people, dpending on which side of the power block they are dealing with would basically be reffering to either "The Empire" or "The Alliance" for my forces.
For OOG, well hell you can call me "Crossroadia" if it makes you feel easier

Why don't you think about it for a while and get back to me? Remember, you just need a name that foreigners can use for the place. It may not be especially descriptive or accurate, it might even be something that randomly bubbles up by historical accident the way the Lakota got called the Sioux or something.

Oh, it does piss the Grays off. However, they aren't quite sure how to respond to it. Waging war on someone because their citizens killed one of your diplomats? That might not please most other governments, but they would at least understand it to some extent and probably still be willing to trade if it is the close equivalent of a nation invading Granada or some other super-small, poor nation.

But how the fuck do you respond to people who simply refuse to believe your existence? Can't go to war, as much as they would like, because that's not really a decent casus belli. So, they're fuming but not sure what to do about it.

Perfect.

They're hoist by their own petard.

Hm. It cannot quite be ruled out that this is actually a massive, deliberate, ongoing ploy by the Umerian leadership. Umeria has no real civil rights as we understand the concept, and there really isn't much of anything stopping them from declaring an idea thoughtcrime and going to immense lengths to ensure everyone knows it (some kind of bizarre memetics or something). They'd just never normally do that.

But that explanation requires too much intelligence from senior Umerians... doesn't it?

So more likely it's just some weird batshit thing that causes SCIENCE! to render Greys largely invisible.

EDIT: If no one minds, SpaceSec gets a special dispensation in that they at least perceive "unidentified radar anomaly, Type 489" when looking at Grey ships, just as the Air Force exhaustively catalogued UFOs only to keep up the official line that they do not exist.

'Why did you bother building that monster to use on swamp gas?'
'WHAT! There is no swamp gas...those are the Grays!'

No, the whole joke is that the Umerians, in keeping with classical earth attitudes towards the grays, refuse to belive they exist, istead explaining them and thier ships away as mass hallucinations or swamp gas or tricks of the light and so on.

Everyone else seems to be prefectly fine with the Grays being a thing though, to the point the Bastions and Kyrptionians had a three way cold war with them at some point.

It's just from the Umerian point of view there was nothing for them to have a cold war with

But we're too polite to say anything about it to them, especially to the Bastians, because who wants to argue with a bunch of people who built a planet-devastating hypercannon to further their cold-war vendetta against... nothing?

[Skywalker_T-65]

On the same subject as the edit in my last post...this is a question to Akhlut, Panzer, and Timothy...Arcadia is at H12, which happens to be in a direct line between Bastian and the Grays (when the map is edited anyway). Now I have already set up the Furlings as a powerful race thousands of years before game start, but they were wiped out at some point (except for the survivors on Reach and a couple other planets). Would it be possible to work them in as either a protecter of Earth (right next to Sol after all) that was destroyed trying to stop the probing/uplifting, or else just unlucky enough to get caught in the crossfire? I would have asked sooner, but I didn't know where I was going to end up on the map.

[Panzersharkcat]

I'm OK with that, personally.

[The Romulan Republic]

Simon_Jester, can you let me know weather its okay for me to have a trade route?

[Simon_Jester]

Uh, what are you playing again? I got lost in the past forty pages, sorry.