So WHY is America more religious? Seriously?

[Coyote]

It seems to be a fact that on the average, the United States population is more religious than most of the rest of the world, with the exception of a lot of the Islamic Fundamentalist states.

But I wonder, "Why"? Usually seeking comfort in the spiritual is a haven of people in desperation or need; clearly America does not face crises of desperation or need. Yet we have been a largely religious nation for much of our existence.

I know the country was founded by religious dissidents, Puritans-- but that argument wouldn't seem to be likely as an explanation, bearing in mind that Rome is the seat of power for one of the largest religions in the world, and Germany and England are the places where the Church's strongest Reform movements were based in.

America, rarely facing outside threat or genocides, with few wars on home soil and an abundance of everthing, seems an unlikely haven for people to seek religious solace. I'm not criticizing or condemning any religion and I'm not interested in flip answers like "Amerikkuns R dum!"-- seriously, why does America cling to religion when the rest of the Western world and much of Asia seems completely uninterested?

[Darth Wong]

It seems to be a fact that on the average, the United States population is more religious than most of the rest of the world, with the exception of a lot of the Islamic Fundamentalist states.

That's an understatement. Nearly half the population thinks the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so.

But I wonder, "Why"? Usually seeking comfort in the spiritual is a haven of people in desperation or need; clearly America does not face crises of desperation or need. Yet we have been a largely religious nation for much of our existence.

Historical revisionism. For whatever reason, Americans are perfectly willing to lap up revisionist nonsense about their own history. They associate Christianity with the formation of their country and all of its success, and many believe in the myth of a "Golden Age" of family values and Christian righteousness. Symbolic revisionism such as the myth of "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" dating back to the beginning is also very powerful.

This kind of revisionism and false history really helps indoctrinators, who are extremely aggressive in America (aggressiveness being a good and bad American trait). In Europe, the last powerful Christian theocracy was the Nazis; not quite as glowing a legacy as the imaginary one being peddled in America.

I know the country was founded by religious dissidents, Puritans-- but that argument wouldn't seem to be likely as an explanation, bearing in mind that Rome is the seat of power for one of the largest religions in the world, and Germany and England are the places where the Church's strongest Reform movements were based in.

That's a good example of what I'm talking about. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine etc. were not only non-Christian, but in their private letters to each other they revealed an outright and occasionally vehement hostility for organized religion.

America, rarely facing outside threat or genocides, with few wars on home soil and an abundance of everthing, seems an unlikely haven for people to seek religious solace. I'm not criticizing or condemning any religion and I'm not interested in flip answers like "Amerikkuns R dum!"-- seriously, why does America cling to religion when the rest of the Western world and much of Asia seems completely uninterested?

It's the myth. The myth of America = Christianity = Prosperity is being used as a marketing tool by proselytizers the world over, and is being credited by many sociologists with recent gains made in Africa and Asia. Never underestimate the power of a big lie.

[Admiral Johnason]

We have had no religios movements beside Christianity here and we have not had an aathestic group in control of our government. Also, a lot of the immigrants either were Christian when they came here or converted.

[Howedar]

That's an understatement. Nearly half the population thinks the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so.

What is your source on that?

[Admiral Johnason]

Jewish calandar says that they world is only 5,200 and something years old. Also, the first real evidence of civilization pops up around 8,000 years ago.

[Joe]

Mike, that Gallup poll I posted the other day...it didn't say that nearly half of the people in the country were YECs, did it? If I recall correctly, it just said that they were creationists; it didn't specify what brand of creationist...

[Raptor 597]

Durran it said:
7% Does not believe in evolution guided by any God
40% Does support evolution guided by God
53% Does not believe in evolution

I'm pretty sure thats right.

[Admiral Johnason]

I am in the 40%.

[Joe]

Durran it said:
7% Does not believe in evolution guided by any God
40% Does support evolution guided by God
53% Does not believe in evolution

I'm pretty sure that right.

OK. Here it is.


"A new Gallup poll shows that 48 percent of Americans believe in creationism, and only 28 percent in evolution (most of the rest aren't sure or lean toward creationism). According to recent Gallup Tuesday briefings, Americans are more than twice as likely to believe in the devil (68 percent) as in evolution."

It doesn't say that 48 percent of the population are YECs, it just says they believe in some sort of divine creation.

[Exonerate]

Durran it said:
7% Does not believe in evolution guided by any God
40% Does support evolution guided by God
53% Does not believe in evolution

I'm pretty sure that right.

OK. Here it is.


"A new Gallup poll shows that 48 percent of Americans believe in creationism, and only 28 percent in evolution (most of the rest aren't sure or lean toward creationism). According to recent Gallup Tuesday briefings, Americans are more than twice as likely to believe in the devil (68 percent) as in evolution."

It doesn't say that 48 percent of the population are YECs, it just says they believe in some sort of divine creation.

Err, if you don't believe in theistic evolution, or evolution by itself, you're basically believing that God stuck us here. They might not all be YECists, but they sure as hell don't believe evolution. I'm willing to bet that more than 95% of that 40% are YECists because the Bible says so.

[Peregrin Toker]

Err, if you don't believe in theistic evolution, or evolution by itself, you're basically believing that God stuck us here.

Isn't theistic evolution also a type of creationism, since it implies that a deity is behind it??

[Joe]

Err, if you don't believe in theistic evolution, or evolution by itself, you're basically believing that God stuck us here.

Isn't theistic evolution also a type of creationism, since it implies that a deity is behind it??

Yes.

However, it is not YECism. Theistic evolution is at least capable of accepting the greater whole of science; YECism is not.

[Exonerate]

Err, if you don't believe in theistic evolution, or evolution by itself, you're basically believing that God stuck us here.

Isn't theistic evolution also a type of creationism, since it implies that a deity is behind it??

YECism is the belief that a deity created us a few thousand years ago, and that "macroevolution" (Speciation) doesn't occur. Belief of "microevolution" is optional.

[Darth Wong]

That's an understatement. Nearly half the population thinks the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so.

What is your source on that?

Time Magazine poll.

[Darth Wong]

Also, from New Humanist magazine:

Gallup poll asking if "God created people in present form within last 10,000 years":
1982: 44%
1991: 47%
1993: 47%
1997: 44%
1999: 47%
2001: 45%

Gallup poll asking if "Evolution occurred over millions of years guided by God":
1981: 37%
1991: 40%
1993: 35%
1997: 44%
1999: 40%
2001: 37%

Gallup poll asking if "Evolution occurred with no interference by God":
1981: 9%
1991: 9%
1993: 11%
1997: 10%
1999: 9%
2001: 12%

Sorry, but at the risk of being labelled an America-basher, that's just fucking pathetic. If you guys want to avoid being labelled fundie morons as a nation, get that last set of figures up.

[Pu-239]

It's because Europe exported all it's fundies to here.

[Darth Wong]

It's because Europe exported all it's fundies to here.

It's been a few hundred years. That's no excuse.

[Frank Hipper]

Are there any ratings for Canada? After all, you did give us the Toronto Airport movement.

[Coyote]

Jewish calandar says that they world is only 5,200 and something years old. Also, the first real evidence of civilization pops up around 8,000 years ago.

Actually, according to Halakhik law, the calendar starts on the first 24-hour day; the "days" previous (the period of Creation) were not 24 hour days as we know them but 'uncompressed time' that slowly coalesced as the universe unfolded. So the first "day" was billions of Earth years, the next "day" was hundreds of millions, the next was millions, then thousands, etc, on down to the last Day of Creation, which was the first normal Day as we know it.

Technically, according to the accepted pov of the Rabbinate in Jerusalem today, "the Creation story" is an attempt to explain through parable the scientific forming of the heavens to a primitive tribe for which 'fire' was hypertechnology...

[Darth Wong]

Jewish calandar says that they world is only 5,200 and something years old. Also, the first real evidence of civilization pops up around 8,000 years ago.

Actually, according to Halakhik law, the calendar starts on the first 24-hour day; the "days" previous (the period of Creation) were not 24 hour days as we know them but 'uncompressed time' that slowly coalesced as the universe unfolded. So the first "day" was billions of Earth years, the next "day" was hundreds of millions, the next was millions, then thousands, etc, on down to the last Day of Creation, which was the first normal Day as we know it.

Timeframe is still wrong, since it depicts things being made in the wrong order: Earth followed by plants followed by Sun followed by stars (with other sundry developments mixed in there). This sequence is so fucked up it isn't funny. And the notion of "days" being variable-length epochs is silly too; the Bible shows days being defined as night and day, light and darkness. This is just another sad religious attempt to reconcile primitive superstition with fact.

Technically, according to the accepted pov of the Rabbinate in Jerusalem today, "the Creation story" is an attempt to explain through parable the scientific forming of the heavens to a primitive tribe for which 'fire' was hypertechnology...

Americans seem to be split between that idea and pure fundie idiocy, with a mere 10-15% having functional grey matter.

[Darth Wong]

Are there any ratings for Canada? After all, you did give us the Toronto Airport movement.

Canadian stats are harder to get, since fewer people are interested in them. I didn't see any on the Humanist magazine website. However, I doubt it's as bad, although it's probably worse than it is in Europe.

[Coyote]

I've met Canadian Fundies. They're pretty rabid. The kicker of it was... they were trying to immigrate to the US.

Sigh.

[Darth Wong]

I've met Canadian Fundies. They're pretty rabid. The kicker of it was... they were trying to immigrate to the US.

Sigh.

Not a surprise. They're looking for fundie nirvana, and like it or not, that's generally well known to be in the southern part of the US.

[Darth Wong]

It occurs to me that part of it may also be that Americans are damned good at marketing and deception. Fundie misinformation and propaganda campaigns are fiendishly clever and brutally effective against those who have not been prepared by education in critical thought. One of my cousins has been living in the US for 15 years, and somewhere along the line he became a religious nut. He actually had to seek medical attention because he injured his knees from kneeling and praying for long periods of time on a hardwood floor.

[von Neufeld]

Another thing is that Americans likes insulting and aggressive people, while Europeans dislike them. Example George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfield, your average fundie, etc.