Duel of the Dual Lightsabres

[Kolinar Romanov]

The thought came to me after watching Epsiodes 1 & 2 back to back (Episode 1 on DVD the day before, Episode 2 the following day).

Right, we all saw Anakin with the two lightsabre when he tried to whop Dooku's ass (but got his ass whopped by an 80 yr. old Sith), and, we saw a young Jedi whop an expert Sith Knight that possesed a dual lightsabre.

But really, which would be better : two, individual lightsabres, or a double-edged lightsabre ?

[Mr. B]

I always thought Mauls was cooler, but having two LS is cumbersome and could just get in the way. Mauls was more balanced and better for fighting.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Two blades are better overall. If your opponent hits your lightstaff, the other end could go into you unless you're fast enough to react. Notice how Maul always holds it far away from him, or with the center piece very close to him so it acts as a pivot.

Two blades, however, are more versatile. With a lightstaff, you are unable to attack with both ends simultaneously. There is no such problem with dual blades. Plus, you can force a saber clash, then disengage with one saber and cut him six ways to Sunday with the other.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

The thing is, I really hate having to choose, because both are cool. Plus, a lightstaff would be easier (?) to learn than dual blades, because it is one entity rather than two, and believe me, wielding two weapons at once is NOT easy. Or at least wielding them effectively. Anakin was flailing at Dooku. He certainly wasn't using skill the way Dooku was.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Maul vs Anakin with two sabers, who would win?

[Kolinar Romanov]

Maul vs Anakin with two sabers, who would win?

Hmmm, hard question. maul has the experience, Anakin the force. I with Annie on this one.

[Vympel]

I don't think Anakin was 'flailing' with the two sabers, I just think he was totally outclassed- no match for Dooku; eighty years old or not, Dooku is clearly a *master* swordsman of the *highest* order- he held off Yoda for cripes sake, although I think it was clear that Yoda would've defeated him if he had hung around- hence the escape and distraction of falling column on Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Considering Anakin is going to kick Dooku's ass in the next film ... woah what a fight that should be (some say that Obi-Wan will fight Dooku but they're wrong IMO- he will get plenty of action beating Anakin).

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Vympel: You mentioned Anakin was not flailing with the sabers. that is correct. Anakin might have been fighting with some degree of skill, but against the sheer technical mastery of Dooku he was outclassed. I said flailing in a relative sense. Being that he knows how to USE a saber, he would probably be better than any of us in the same situation.

But flailing might also be appropriate. Anakin studies Form IV, the "power" form of lightsaber combat. Flailing involves lots of direct movements, which would fit into the philosophy, though I doubt he was actually using any technique during that fight (getting zapped by lightning, seeing your master get defeated, you are an impulsive SOB with uber Force powers...not much room for rational thought there, is there?)

[IRG CommandoJoe]

I wish Lucas put in actual Jedi training. Not those little kids, but actual Jedi Knights sparring with each other and stuff. He could have done that even in TPM. Like, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon sparring and training and then meditating afterwards, all the while discussing the situation about Anakin while the Senate debated stuff. Or in AotC, when Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, and Yoda were walking down the corridor. They could have been overseeing some Jedi Knights sparring or even participated in the training some how, with the same dialogue. That would have been uber-cool to see them school the lower-ranking Jedi.

[Lagmonster]

Frankly, if you're comparing the actual fighting styles of the individuals in question, Maul clearly had FAR more training at the time of his death than Anakin at the end of Ep.II. It's more than likely that Maul could have beaten Anakin by virtue of superior strength and fighting ability - even with only one lightsabre end ignited (Anakin having not proved that he fights in ANY manner other than force-led aggression, even as Vader). Maul's single-ignited staff would have made it much easier for him to defend against a two-fisted attack by the emotion-led Anakin.

Now, if you're evaluating the weapons themselves, it's a different matter. I don't think any human could operate Maul's weapon without cutting themselves in half. It's just too cumbersome despite its advantages in striking and blocking body shots simultaneously, and any strike with it puts the wielder in VERY close proximity to the other end of his own weapon, meaning a hard parry by ANY stronger opponent will get you killed. Bear in mind while watching the Ep.I duels that Maul's ability to engage both Jedi came from both his weapon AND his tactics (keep moving away, force the Jedi to follow down a tight corridor where he'd only have to engage one at a time, etc). I imaging that if Maul had been one-on-one, he would have used his single-bladed version - even against a two-fisted Anakin, as Maul did on Tatooine against Qui-Gon. You balance attack and defense easier with a sword than a staff.

As for 'dual lightsabres', it is far easier to balance attack and defense with one reasonably-ranged hand weapon than it is with two. If you watch fighters with twin short hand weapons (forget the names of those sticks), they do not usually fight on defense. The strength of two weapons is in creating unrelenting attack from two directions *with great speed* (something Maul proved he could handle in his duel), and frankly, I'm not surprised that Dooku beat Anakin while he was engaged in direct attack since Dooku was faster. I haven't the footage to analyze their fight, but I'm willing to bet Dooku didn't even TRY to fight offensively against Anakin until the kid had tired himself out a bit whipping both sabers around in his harder-to-defend position. Anakin's lack of two hands on his primary weapon makes him slower than his opponent to block, and two offensive weapons with a lower defense doesn't help when your opponent is as fast as you.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Well according to the novel Dooku just let Anakin wear himself out and start to get sloppy before striking.

Still for a padawan against a jedi master turned sith he put up a bloody good fight IMO. Shame they cut the dialogue from the film.

[Stravo]

Well according to the novel Dooku just let Anakin wear himself out and start to get sloppy before striking.

Still for a padawan against a jedi master turned sith he put up a bloody good fight IMO. Shame they cut the dialogue from the film.

Vasey, what kind of dialogue? I didn't buy the novelization.

[Crazy_Vasey]

When Anakin goes after Dooku with two sabres Dooku says, "your skills are uncanny." or something like that. I'd give you the exact quote but my Star Wars books are all the way upstairs and I'm too lazy to go fetch it right now :p

[BioDroid]

Personally I'd favor two lightsabers, just based on my own experience with swords and staves.

[Eleas]

But flailing might also be appropriate. Anakin studies Form IV, the "power" form of lightsaber combat.

Interesting statement. I'd like to hear more about this.

[Stravo]

When Anakin goes after Dooku with two sabres Dooku says, "your skills are uncanny." or something like that. I'd give you the exact quote but my Star Wars books are all the way upstairs and I'm too lazy to go fetch it right now :p

VERY cool! Thanks Vasey, GL should definately have let that dialogue remian, otherwise, I honetsly think that Anakin's skill and power was simply downplayed too much in the movie and seems like any other Padawan when we know he is one with the force in many ways! It would have been nice to see some acknowldgement of this by someone like Dooku.

[Eleas]

When Anakin goes after Dooku with two sabres Dooku says, "your skills are uncanny." or something like that. I'd give you the exact quote but my Star Wars books are all the way upstairs and I'm too lazy to go fetch it right now :p

He could be referring to Anakin's great skill with Force Precognition, which would fit very well with other evidence.

[Darth Yoshi]

Unless you fight one handed all the time, having two individual lightsabres is a disadvantage. The strength of your attacks is halved, meaning that an opponent with a single lightsabre will be able to fend off the attacks with less effort. Also, if you're not significantly faster than your opponent, he'll be able to bulldoze right through your weakened defenses. Having a double lightsabre allows you to block and attack with full strength, and also allows for stronger counters.

[Eleas]

Unless you fight one handed all the time, having two individual lightsabres is a disadvantage. The strength of your attacks is halved, meaning that an opponent with a single lightsabre will be able to fend off the attacks with less effort. Also, if you're not significantly faster than your opponent, he'll be able to bulldoze right through your weakened defenses.

Only if he wishes to die. He cannot take even a glancing blow, remember? He can't just bulldoze through them, he can't use a momentary opening to land a killing blow, because there are two sabers coming at him from different directions.

Having a double lightsabre allows you to block and attack with full strength, and also allows for stronger counters.

But a good enough counter will push the other side of your staff toward your body, injuring or killing you outright, and more than half of the more useful staff techniques are not available to you.

[Lagmonster]

Having made both the above points already, again, it's Maul's advantage. The weapons are equally bad choices - both fighters would do better to go down to one sword, which balances attack and defense.

When you consider that, it comes down to ability in that duel, and Maul is flat out better trained.

[Vympel]

The Ep II Visual Dictionary discusses the forms of lightsaber combat, correct?

Regarding Anakin's style- he doesn't seem to use that many flourishing 'light' strikes- but then again we've only seen him fight Dooku and then his two sabers were clearly out of 'character' for him. I suspect in Ep III we'll see that Form IV isn't inferior to the other styles- people say that Vader's a cripple and I think everyone would like to see Vader kill at least one Jedi in the full-on suit (Mace Windu perhaps?) rather than Anakin killing them all.

[Lagmonster]

People say that Vader's a cripple and I think everyone would like to see Vader kill at least one Jedi in the full-on suit (Mace Windu perhaps?) rather than Anakin killing them all.

Ugh. Vader *is* a cripple. Judging their fighting styles alone, any random Jedi from the Old Republic could have torn him a new one and kept going. Vader/Anakin consistantly fights with strong killing blows. He doesn't fight to gain control of the combat and THEN land a killing blow when he knows his opponent isn't going to counterattack and take them both down. He just launches himself in there and lets the Force worry about blocking. Hell, even a winded and untrained Luke manages to score one on Vader's shoulderpad.

[Eleas]

Ugh. Vader *is* a cripple. Judging their fighting styles alone, any random Jedi from the Old Republic could have torn him a new one and kept going. Vader/Anakin consistantly fights with strong killing blows. He doesn't fight to gain control of the combat and THEN land a killing blow when he knows his opponent isn't going to counterattack and take them both down. He just launches himself in there and lets the Force worry about blocking. Hell, even a winded and untrained Luke manages to score one on Vader's shoulderpad.

I suspect that Vader was so successful because of an insanely powerful precognitive ability and not necessarily his fighting style. If you are able to allow precognition to guide your motions, your techniques may seem clumsy, but they will effectively be impossible to counter. I believe Vader was about that powerful.

[Lagmonster]

I suspect that Vader was so successful because of an insanely powerful precognitive ability and not necessarily his fighting style. If you are able to allow precognition to guide your motions, your techniques may seem clumsy, but they will effectively be impossible to counter. I believe Vader was about that powerful.

Oh, no questions about his precognitive abilities or force powers. But all the foresight in the world won't help if you aren't fast enough to get your sword in the way to block.

Vader was powerful, but he wasn't very fast in Jedi terms.

[BioDroid]

Well, have you ever tried looking out of a Vader helmet? No peripheral vision, no good range of motion with his head to compensate...hell I'm amazed he survived as long as he had!