The Acceptability of Using Disabilities to Insult

[Losonti Tokash]

Because it's completely possible to insult someone in a way that doesn't use hateful and dehumanizing slurs.

[Flagg]

Because it's completely possible to insult someone in a way that doesn't use hateful and dehumanizing slurs.

Aren't all insults hateful?

[Thanas]

Maybe a better question would be if using "retard" is as offensive as "cocksucker" or other derogatory terms for gays? Is it as offensive as if I would say "suck my dick" to someone?

I'm not sure it's really helpful to come to these sorts of conclusions. 'Who has it worse' is a pretty morbid question to ask, and when you consider the implied inverse I don't think it would be a very comfortable one.

Well, what I am asking is why retard is more of an outrageous insult than the others cited here. Unless, of course, you are advocating for banning all curse words that degrade people and have a bad background.

[Losonti Tokash]

Where did anyone advocate banning any words?

[Flagg]

Where did anyone advocate banning any words?

You are saying that retard is just as bad as words that are banned on this board.

[Thanas]

Where did anyone advocate banning any words?

Well, the thread title is "Acceptability of Using Disabilities to Insult". If I fail to understand you, please explain to me what your goal here is?

[Losonti Tokash]

Where did anyone advocate banning any words?

You are saying that retard is just as bad as words that are banned on this board.

Which is somehow equivalent to me saying any words should be banned. Say whatever the fuck you want, I won't stop you. But you should know that using certain words make you an insensitive asshole poking fun at the expense of a persecuted minority. And that by using those terms, you're helping to perpetuate it.

Well, the thread title is "Acceptability of Using Disabilities to Insult". If I fail to understand you, please explain to me what your goal here is?

Ideally it would be socially unacceptable to use people with a developmental disability as an object of ridicule or to insult someone by comparing said person to them. Right now it largely is acceptable due in part to people's ignorance and the reinforcement of negative stereotypes by popular media.

[Ford Prefect]

Well, the thread title is "Acceptability of Using Disabilities to Insult". If I fail to understand you, please explain to me what your goal here is?

Setting aside that we didn't start the thread, 'acceptability' isn't about banning. It is not strictly speaking illegal to use racist or homophobic slurs in Australia in private, but that doesn't mean that they're acceptable.

[Flagg]

Where did anyone advocate banning any words?

You are saying that retard is just as bad as words that are banned on this board.

Which is somehow equivalent to me saying any words should be banned. Say whatever the fuck you want, I won't stop you. But you should know that using certain words make you an insensitive asshole poking fun at the expense of a persecuted minority. And that by using those terms, you're helping to perpetuate it.

Well, the thread title is "Acceptability of Using Disabilities to Insult". If I fail to understand you, please explain to me what your goal here is?

Ideally it would be socially unacceptable to use people with a developmental disability as an object of ridicule or to insult someone by comparing said person to them. Right now it largely is acceptable due in part to people's ignorance and the reinforcement of negative stereotypes by popular media.

So your point was to attack people who use words that make your butt hurt, miss manners?

[Losonti Tokash]

Every person I've ever met who used "retard" as an insult has never spent any length of time around people with a developmental disability. They generally also haven't even considered the possibility that it might be unacceptable and, if they have, simply constructed rationalizations so as to not own up to their previous use of a hateful term.

So your point was to attack people who use words that make your butt hurt, miss manners?

So, are you admitting it's a bigoted term and you'd just like to keep using it because you want to upset people?

[Flagg]

Every person I've ever met who used "retard" as an insult has never spent any length of time around people with a developmental disability. They generally also haven't even considered the possibility that it might be unacceptable and, if they have, simply constructed rationalizations so as to not own up to their previous use of a hateful term.

Well you've just met someone who worked with the mentally disabled while doing security, and has a mentally disabled niece. So blow it out your ass miss manners.

[Losonti Tokash]

Every person I've ever met who used "retard" as an insult has never spent any length of time around people with a developmental disability. They generally also haven't even considered the possibility that it might be unacceptable and, if they have, simply constructed rationalizations so as to not own up to their previous use of a hateful term.

Well you've just met someone who worked with the mentally disabled while doing security, and has a mentally disabled niece. So blow it out your ass miss manners.

That makes you the biggest piece of shit I've ever met. Go fuck yourself.

[Flagg]

So, are you admitting it's a bigoted term and you'd just like to keep using it because you want to upset people?

My point is that it's as bigoted a term as idiot is, meaning it's not.

[Flagg]

Every person I've ever met who used "retard" as an insult has never spent any length of time around people with a developmental disability. They generally also haven't even considered the possibility that it might be unacceptable and, if they have, simply constructed rationalizations so as to not own up to their previous use of a hateful term.

Well you've just met someone who worked with the mentally disabled while doing security, and has a mentally disabled niece. So blow it out your ass miss manners.

That makes you the biggest piece of shit I've ever met. Go fuck yourself.

Nice ad hominem there, miss manners.

[Bakustra]

Where did anyone advocate banning any words?

Well, the thread title is "Acceptability of Using Disabilities to Insult". If I fail to understand you, please explain to me what your goal here is?

The goal that I had when I started the thread was to provoke discussion. Furthermore, I was talking about acceptability in a social context.

[Losonti Tokash]

So, are you admitting it's a bigoted term and you'd just like to keep using it because you want to upset people?

My point is that it's as bigoted a term as idiot is, meaning it's not.

You are literally the only person I have ever met who thinks they are equivalent.

[Losonti Tokash]

Nice ad hominem there, miss manners.

You have worked with people that have a developmental disability and have a niece with one, yet you continue to use a word that is hurtful and offensive to them. This makes you a piece of shit. Would you say these at work? Would you say these around her parents?

[Thanas]

Setting aside that we didn't start the thread, 'acceptability' isn't about banning. It is not strictly speaking illegal to use racist or homophobic slurs in Australia in private, but that doesn't mean that they're acceptable.

Alright then, I'll attempt to narrow it down. What insults do you think are acceptable then?

(Also, I don't really think retard is at the same level as the n-word. The level of suffering behind the n-word is of a whole different scale.)

[Flagg]

Nice ad hominem there, miss manners.

You have worked with people that have a developmental disability and have a niece with one, yet you continue to use a word that is hurtful and offensive to them. This makes you a piece of shit. Would you say these at work? Would you say these around her parents?

No and I wouldn't call them stupid, idiot, or moron, either. They are all especially hurtful to mentally disabled people. But I don't hold retard as any more offensive than the aforementioned insults.

[Losonti Tokash]

Nice ad hominem there, miss manners.

You have worked with people that have a developmental disability and have a niece with one, yet you continue to use a word that is hurtful and offensive to them. This makes you a piece of shit. Would you say these at work? Would you say these around her parents?

No and I wouldn't call them stupid, idiot, or moron, either. They are all especially hurtful to mentally disabled people. But I don't hold retard as any more offensive than the aforementioned insults.

Then you're just an asshole. If you're fine with that, then okay. But don't pretend you're not an asshole using hateful words. If you won't use a term around the people it describes, maybe you shouldn't fucking use it.

[Bakustra]

Setting aside that we didn't start the thread, 'acceptability' isn't about banning. It is not strictly speaking illegal to use racist or homophobic slurs in Australia in private, but that doesn't mean that they're acceptable.

Alright then, I'll attempt to narrow it down. What insults do you think are acceptable then?

(Also, I don't really think retard is at the same level as the n-word. The level of suffering behind the n-word is of a whole different scale.)

"Tool"
"Fucklord/Shitlord"
"Shithead"
And according to Amanda Marcone, "Douchebag" is non-sexist and should go here.

These are just examples- there are plenty of ways to concisely showcase your lack of respect for another person that aren't built on a foundation of intolerance.

[Flagg]

Then you're just an asshole. If you're fine with that, then okay. But don't pretend you're not an asshole using hateful words. If you won't use a term around the people it describes, maybe you shouldn't fucking use it.

Again, how is retard any more hateful than idiot?

[Losonti Tokash]

I've explained it to you half a dozen times. Go read one of them.

[Simon_Jester]

"Tool"
"Fucklord/Shitlord"
"Shithead"
And according to Amanda Marcone, "Douchebag" is non-sexist and should go here.

Those are all generic: they say "I don't like you" but obscure the reason why. Which is all right if your goal is just to cobble together screeds against people, but unsatisfactory sometimes, if you're insulting something for a reason.

"Bob is being a fucklord" doesn't tell anyone what Bob is actually doing to make you so upset about him. "Bob is being retarded" gives a hint, even given that the word may be unacceptably obnoxious.

So I don't think those are interchangeable, unless you use your insults mad-libs style and don't care which one you use in a given situation.

[Bakustra]

Okay, so here's where I introduce you to Insults 220: The Art of Extended Insults. Let's start off with a basic example:

"Simon, Humpty Dumpty is looking at you and going 'Damn, that guy is one crazy-ass fence-sitter'. You're so indecisive Charlie Brown would call you 'that wishy-washy kid'."

In this case, I am using more words to clearly indicate that I dislike your method of attempting to be neutral and refusing to commit to acceptability or unacceptability one way or the other, which presents a persona of mindless contrarian behavior.

Alternatively, I could use something along the lines of

"Heinleinman, when somebody asks about the weather, do you go, 'Well, gee, it could be rainy because of all the clouds, but the clouds could blow away in the next minute or so..'" to further elaborate on how much I loathe your vacillation.

Or I could do it like this:

"So tell me, Simon, have you ever seen an opinion expressed that you didn't immediately want to contradict? When someone says 'Is the pope Catholic?', do you insist on bringing up heretical patriarchs? Is it physically impossible for you to just agree with someone?" and thus express disgust with your contrarian attitudes.

Finally, I could go this way:

"Simon, I think getting your mind off its lazy medulla oblongata and thinking up ways to express yourself without the crutch of intellectual shorthand will make you less of a fucking intellectual slacker" and talk specifically about my problems with your argument.

I could go even more outrageous with any of these- e.g. "At least Hitler had actual fucking opinions he held. I'm not convinced you've managed to reach that point yet." but I hope that the points are taken.