Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

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Broomstick
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Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

I've been meaning to do this for awhile, but didn't have access to a working camera. Now I do. Yay!

Anyhow - we've occasionally had discussions about or mentioning hydroponics, and it's not unusal that people discussing the topic haven't actually seen or used a working hydropics rig. (Of course, we've also had experienced hydro people, too - if they want to show off their rigs I invite them to do so.)

So, basically, this thread is about hydroponics and related techniques, showing off, and asking questions.

To start: This is a picture of a hydro tray that's been partially harvested:
Image
You can see the fluid input to the left. You can't see the output drain that's underneath, draining from the lowest point of the tray. The tray is heavy-duty plastic filled with pea gravel for a growing medium, which we purchase in 50 pound bags (22.5 kg). The light fixture is recycled from, if I recall correctly, an out of business drug store (chemist, in some parts of the Anglosphere). The bulbs are full-spectrum lights for indoor plant growth.

This tray has Swiss chard, Beta vulgaris subspecies maritima, white stem varietal. The plants are over 30 cm tall.

This is a tray that's a little earlier in the growth cycle:
Image
The light fixture here is also recycled. Actually, there's a lot of recycling going on here - the main supports for the trays are battered sawhorses and doors too damaged to use as doors but still suitable as tables for this purpose. The lights are supported by a metal fencepost from a dismantled fence held up by battered step ladders. (Much of this was donated by my partner in this endeavor who has an access to an abundance of such things, having owned a construction business for a few decades.) We did buy the trays, buckets, and tubing that carries the fluids and holds the plants to avoid possible contamination, and to ensure good condition. After all, we eat the produce.

More Beta vulgaris subspecies maritima, this time with a mix of stem colors. And one spinach plant on the left that's gone leggy. Sometimes, you get unpredictable results, especially since this is not the most sophisticated set up. So far, we've had much better luck with chard and radishes than spinach, not sure why.

This is one of the fluid reservoirs showing the in/out plumbing, the pump (submerged white cylinder), and the switch (black whatsit)
Image
The switch is attached to a concrete-filled potable-water grade PVC pipe (the white vertical pipe next to the switch) so the level can be adjusted. The lower parts of the switch is a float. The upper limit turns on the pump, the lower limit turns it off, and it can be slid up and down to accommodate different levels in the reservoir. When the power goes on, if the switch is at the upper limit it turns on, then runs until the lowered water level brings it to the lower limit. The lower limit is important because this pump is designed to stay submerged, sucking air in would not be good for this system. It's basically the same design that runs a basement sump pump.

This is the reservoir as it usually is, covered and under the trays.
Image
Yes, the picture is dark, and the bucket is covered with foil. That is to prevent contamination and reduce algae growth. You won't keep it completely at bay since this is essentially a bucket of food, and lots of things can eat it. However, you want the fluids to go to growing YOUR plants, not random wild intruders.

And.... this is what happens when things go awry:
Image
This is an algae mat covereing a fungal infection that wiped out an entire tray/bucket system. This can happen (obviously) and is a pain in the ass because that means tearing everything down, cleaning it all, sanitizing it and starting the tray over.

This is a very basic ebb-and-flood system using an electric-power pump to input the water into the growing trays and gravity to remove it. It's a cheap system, utilizing a lot of recycled stuff we had lying around although, as I mentioned, we did purchase new, clean stuff for certain parts. We're getting a harvest about once every two weeks at present. We use indoor grow lights, but as you can see there are also windows supplying natural daylight as well. The grow lights are essential during the winter as our short days do not provide enough light to sustain growth. It's not as productive as a highly tuned, precisely calibrated system but then, we wanted something that didn't require constant attention. We put about 1-3 hours in per week, and can leave it unattended for 4-5 days at a time (with mature plants, up to a week). We were aiming for a low-maintenance set up rather than pushing for maximum production of plant material.

Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Pictures of your rig?
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Darmalus »

How much does it cost to run, compared to buying your plants at the local market?
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

That is an interesting question, which we are currently analyzing. The plan is to add up the average per month utility cost this year, while we've had the set up, vs last year when we didn't.

I forgot to mention - the power for the pumps is on a timer switch that only kicks on five times a day for 15 minutes, which is sufficient to keep the roots damp and fed. I'll see if I can get a picture of that, although it's not that big a deal, it's basically what you can buy to turn your lights on and off while on vacation to make your home look inhabited. The lights are on 15 hours a day, another timer.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by madd0ct0r »

Are you including time spent fiddling as part of the cost?

I can see it being fun hobby time too, but at least the quantity should be tracked.
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

How are you going to value that time spent? I mean, I don't calculate my time spent working in my dirt garden, either. That's actually a lot more time, as the dirt garden is MUCH larger.

I suppose I could calculate that time at minimum wage but if you do that NO gardening is as cheap as going to the grocery store. On the other hand, if I didn't use that time of mine to garden I'd have to use it to work in order to get the money to buy the gas to go to the store and buy the food and drive back, not to mention the time it takes to go through the store.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by kaeneth »

I generally value my free time as on par with what I'm currently being paid, or at least minimum wage. Mainly because I value my free time and I hate wasting it on things I don't enjoy.

However, I have to agree with broomstick....

Hobbyist farming is never going to be cost effective (even at minimum wage) vs. going to the store. Although, the number of hours spent might still be nice to know. ;)
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

Setting it up in the first place takes a bit, though the more often you do it the quicker you get at it.

Once it's up and running, and assuming nothing goes wrong, it's about 10-15 minutes every 3-4 days, with more time needed when you're changing/replacing the growing fluids.

One of the key things here is that, right now, I have more time than money. So instead of spending money to go shopping I can use the money for something else. If I still had full-time employment yes, this would be a hobby and not cost-effective.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Darmalus »

I'm not really interested in how much time spent is worth. What I was more interested was something like money spent on electricity and nutrient solution to get X plants, versus the cost of X plants at the market. Living in sunny California, mine and Broomstick's local economics are probably wildly different when it comes to produce and sunlight, but I've always been mildly interested in hydroponics.
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

Nutrient solution about $25/year, though admittedly we aren't using the top shelf precisely mixed stuff.

Right now, we're getting about 1 pound of chard every 2 weeks, so, allowing for the initial time from seed to harvest that about... 20 pounds a year, assuming productivity remains the same. Chard is $1.99/pound at the local stores, so we break even in about... 24 weeks? 6 months. That's not counting utilities as an expense, but also not counting the lettuce ($1.69/pound) and radishes we've also harvested ($1.00/pound)

So it's probably possible to break even, but I'm assuming our produce costs are higher than California's.

I also comparing to standard varieties - the chard we grow is the "bright lights" mix for the most part, which is $2.99-$4.99 at the grocer (they only sell it in the "organic" variety). You can't get the multiple variety of radishes we grow. The lettuce varieties are about the same. I compared to the cheapest varieties, though, because if I couldn't grow all those fancy varieties at home I'd be buying the cheapest available due to fiscal constraints.

Which brings me to where hydroponics starts to make fiscal sense - when you're looking at high-end types of produce - organic, particular variety, and so forth. If you like to use a lot of fresh herbs, which can be expensive at the store, growing your own over the winter hydroponically starts to make sense. (If it were just me half the trays would be herbs, but my partner - or rather his wife - uses almost no fresh herbs so we compromised). This is also why hydroponic marijuana makes sense - between the needed security on the crop, which is easier indoors, and the high mark up on the finished produced producers can make a fine profit even using a much more sophisticated, energy-intensive, and more expensive set up than what I have.

It also makes more sense here in northern Indiana with a growing season of, at most, 100-120 days (with a few exceptions for extremely hardy plants) as opposed to, say, southern California where you can possibly garden year round.

On the other hand, some people enjoy it as a hobby. Nothing wrong with that.

My partner and I originally started this because we couldn't get chard or kale at all in local stores. They just didn't carry them. Only in the past year did they start, and apparently there was more of a market than they anticipated because now it's much more readily available. So for us, part of the motivation was have a source of a favorite vegetable year round.

The upside of gardening of any sort is that I get the freshest possible vegetables, and a wider variety of types and varieties than if I went to the store. I eat better because of it. Of course, even without it I could eat pretty damn well, it's not essential to health. I just like good, fresh food.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Kanastrous »

We're starting a dirt garden (raised beds) when I get back into town. I'm probably going to come running to you, for guidance.
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

I've been working on my dirt garden, too. In fact, today I started my first eight Three Sisters mounds, and planted the first of the cucumbers last weekend. (planting some more that will be popcorn)

That's in addition to the beets, turnips, carrots, spinach, chard, bok choy, lettuce, onions and radishes already started (should get my first table radishes by the weekend). The kale and the parsley I started indoors isn't looking too good, but the basil is adjusting well. Second round of radishes planted already.

When the corn gets 6 inches tall (15 cm) in go the beans and squash. Will also put the sunflowers in around then, too. The corn and the sunflowers are mainly for the family parrots - yes, I even grow some of my own pet food. Crazy, huh?

Still undecided whether or not to expand the garden - we could certainly eat what I plant, but breaking the sod around here is a nightmare. It doesn't help I bent my heaviest steel shoving doing just that last year.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Skgoa »

Wow, it's been a year and I still haven't implemented any of the ideas for the hydroponic garden I had. :D

But I came here to ask questions, not lament my procrastinability. ;)
So Broomie (or anyone else)
1) 1f I simply set up a little hydroponic/aeroponic assembly on my window sill, do you think anything would grow over the summer? I am not really looking for perfect efficiency, I just want to test the technical side before I invest money into grow-lights. (As they seem to cost the most.) I'm in the middle of Europe and my windows are to the north. Although we have a brightly coloured house on the other side of the street (10m at most away) that forces me to wear sunglasses when working at this time of the year, already.
2) We have a cat. Would that be a problem? She is running around outside, too. So I'm worried about what parasites she might carry inside. Is it a viable idea to but a clear plastic or gauze "bag" over the whole setup?
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

Skgoa wrote:1) 1f I simply set up a little hydroponic/aeroponic assembly on my window sill, do you think anything would grow over the summer? I am not really looking for perfect efficiency, I just want to test the technical side before I invest money into grow-lights. (As they seem to cost the most.) I'm in the middle of Europe and my windows are to the north. Although we have a brightly coloured house on the other side of the street (10m at most away) that forces me to wear sunglasses when working at this time of the year, already.
If there is enough light in the window that houseplants would grow there would be at least enough light for leaf vegetables (lettuce, chard, spinach, etc.) A north-facing window in the northern hemisphere might not provide enough light for some of the sun-loving vegetables to produce fruit.
2) We have a cat. Would that be a problem? She is running around outside, too. So I'm worried about what parasites she might carry inside. Is it a viable idea to but a clear plastic or gauze "bag" over the whole setup?
Yes, provided it is not air tight - you need some air circulation - and it's cat-proof.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Darmalus »

Oh wow, I remember this thread.

Well, it's been a year. How did the math work out, Broomstick? Living is sunny California, a hydroponic setup doesn't make much sense for us, but I'm still interested.
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

Well... in winter/off season we break-even, sometimes a little better but in-season and summer either the store or the dirt garden is cheaper, which probably isn't a big surprise. It's the cost of running the lights and pumps, mostly the lights. To really get prime growth we would have had to increase the gro-lights, or else build a greenhouse. Increasing energy costs were the big thing in this equation.

On top of that, the number of varieties of greens/lettuce being offered in local stores has increased, and for some the price has even come down.

We've dismantled our set up, having decided not to maintain this over the summer. If produce became hard to get we'd certainly consider setting it up again.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by madd0ct0r »

how much energy were the lights using?
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Skgoa »

The numbers don't match for us, either. Produce is extremely cheap in Germany, while energy prices are high and always rising.
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by Broomstick »

madd0ct0r wrote:how much energy were the lights using?
Don't recall exactly - we did the numbers several months ago.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Re: Working Hydroponic Set Up (Could Wind Up Pic Heavy)

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Well my parents grow tomatoes and cucumber commercially during the summer in Finland, they use stone/mineral wool instead of soil to grow the plants in. I should snap some shots of it this weekend.
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