Church Excommunicates Evildoers

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-09 03:59am

Pu-239 wrote:Ok, this is ridiculous. Abortion is worse then murder? . According to church, abortion is a sin since you are murdering a child, yet I don't see any murderers being excommunicated.

Hitler was not excommunicated.

EDIT: well, not until years after his death, anyway. I don't really think that counts, since it's obviously in response to public pressure.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-03-09 04:01am

Darth Wong wrote:
Pu-239 wrote:Ok, this is ridiculous. Abortion is worse then murder? . According to church, abortion is a sin since you are murdering a child, yet I don't see any murderers being excommunicated.
Hitler was not excommunicated.

That's because that's what the CC endorses. As I said, we need a curse put on the CC!

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-03-09 04:01am

Oh well it's moot. After all there is no god, so whether or not you get excommunicated is moot. Now she can become an atheist.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-03-09 06:01am

It doesn't surprise me. Remember that the Catholic Church is split, generally along national lines, for ease of administration. Hence, while very liberal (and about as corrupt as the Mafia) in many first-world countries, in the developing and the third world, they're about the most conservative organization out there.

The Papacy actually should be politically applauded for balancing two totally seperate elements - Holy Rollers from the USA and guys from South America and Africa who aren't much above the idea of restarting the Inquisition - but a religious organization being politically adept is hardly laudable. The problem is that such is just the thing - The Catholic Church has always been a political organization. I guess that's just part of the charm. Up until 1871 their country was rather more than just a few blocks in size, in fact, and before the 1860s, composed of all of central Italy. Not just in running the Papal States but trying to gain political domination of all of Europe, the Papacy has a long history of exerting religious power for political gain.

It's not like this is necessarily bad, if they learn to seperate what they're doing politically from their religious motives. But the church has never done this. The church has also never really, well, modernized. In some ways it's elegantly respectful of women - Marianism has been displayed since the 4th century in the Catholic Church - but it is ultimately an agrarian religion for agrarian societies, and it demands agrarian moralities out of its worshippers.

I always tried to be a good conservative catholic girl but it just wasn't in the cards for me so instead of pretending to adopt a doctrine that would never adopt me I switched over to deism - Requires fewer philosophical slights of hand to make sense of, anyway. Ultimately, that's the problem with most people. Instead of leaving a religion when it does something stupid they stay in it and keep all of the doctrine except the part they don't like.

The sheer arrogance of this action is that the Catholic Church didn't give them a choice - But I'll bet you nobody offended by it leaves the Church. Ah well.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-09 06:32am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:But I'll bet you nobody offended by it leaves the Church. Ah well.

Hitting the nail on the head there. Catholics are like women who keep forgiving an abusive husband. Instead of leaving the bastard, they keep pleading with him to change, deluding themselves into thinking it will happen, and trying to ignore the horrible things about his personality while reminding themselves of the "good parts".

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-09 06:42am

Frank Hipper wrote:If the Vatican can hemm and haw about baby-fucking priests for so long, I'm sure shitting on the remnants of a little girl's hopes for happiness in life gives them no problems. I mean come on, this is doctrinely sound policy here. They should be proud of their Nicaraguan church brethren.

As a Catholic, the policies of the Chuch in the US piss me off. If I was in
charge of the Washington Diocese, babyfuckers would be SHOT, after
a Q&A session to determine if the kid isn't using the accusation as a weapon
against the priest (it's happened before).

Rape used to be a capital crime. Make it a capital crime again, and
a lot of our problems would be solved.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-09 06:52am

Not all that relegated, but the problem will killing rapists is that it gives them no reason to let their victims live. Not all would make the jump to murder but some would. They deserve death as far as I'm concerned, but I think lifetime imprisonment is a better option. Problem is they shits often don't get life and have a 70%+ reoffense rate.

Course I could be wrong, and I doubt looking at 1920's and 30's rape statistics when it often was a capital crime and comparing them to those of today would give any real information

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-03-09 10:44am

MKSheppard wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:If the Vatican can hemm and haw about baby-fucking priests for so long, I'm sure shitting on the remnants of a little girl's hopes for happiness in life gives them no problems. I mean come on, this is doctrinely sound policy here. They should be proud of their Nicaraguan church brethren.
As a Catholic, the policies of the Chuch in the US piss me off. If I was in
charge of the Washington Diocese, babyfuckers would be SHOT, after
a Q&A session to determine if the kid isn't using the accusation as a weapon
against the priest (it's happened before).

Rape used to be a capital crime. Make it a capital crime again, and
a lot of our problems would be solved.

You're catholic?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-03-09 11:04am

MKSheppard wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:If the Vatican can hemm and haw about baby-fucking priests for so long, I'm sure shitting on the remnants of a little girl's hopes for happiness in life gives them no problems. I mean come on, this is doctrinely sound policy here. They should be proud of their Nicaraguan church brethren.
As a Catholic, the policies of the Chuch in the US piss me off. If I was in
charge of the Washington Diocese, babyfuckers would be SHOT, after
a Q&A session to determine if the kid isn't using the accusation as a weapon
against the priest (it's happened before).

Rape used to be a capital crime. Make it a capital crime again, and
a lot of our problems would be solved.

The US did away with rape as a capital crime because whites found guilty of rape were hardly ever executed while blacks found guilty of rape were almost always executed. The US Supreme Court declared that was in gross violation and stated there had to be clear standards and tossed out rape as a capital crime. There is a very good reason why rape is no longer a capital crime.

As to the topic at hand. This is offical endorsement by the part of the Catholic Church supporting pedophilia. This could actually be used in the US to negate the power of the Catholic church because all religons in the USA must follow the law.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-09 11:16am

Darth Wong wrote:If the Catholic Church wants to throw out evildoers, perhaps it could start with its own fucking administration.

I would like to see that the catholic church really excommuniate evil-doers,all churches will have a for sale sign in front of them

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-09 11:57am

What the fuck? That's disgusting!

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-09 01:04pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:It doesn't surprise me. Remember that the Catholic Church is split, generally along national lines, for ease of administration. Hence, while very liberal (and about as corrupt as the Mafia) in many first-world countries, in the developing and the third world, they're about the most conservative organization out there.

How dare you make that comparison. What did the Mafia ever do to be viewed in the same light as the Catholic Church?

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-03-26 04:09pm

Alright, just did a little checking on the auto-matic excommunication part of teh doctrine through a Jesuit (that gets me excommunicated from Chick's followers) acquientince of mine. Apparently the way it works is that someone who has an abortion willingly performed apon them is automatically excommunicated. And once that happens all they need to do is go to confession and they are back, not that it is enforced in the first place.

Sometimes the church should be blasted, sometimes it shouldn't, I personally believe this should not be one of those times.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-03-26 05:33pm

Wll that is the RCC for you

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-03-26 05:38pm

OK, its things like this that make me a "non practicing" Catholic. The Church has for many years labored under a delusion that people don't see the hypocrisy that riddles the institution. The priest pedophilia issue has been conveniently swept under the rug by many pundits as the Church puts what pressure it can to shut certain parties up. Its DISGUSTING to me that men of god would do such a horrific deed as cover up or downplay pedophilia.

I have no words for the horrid institutional cancer that has crept throughout mother church and only hope one day that it can be cleansed.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-26 05:44pm

Maybe it can be cleansed by fire,flatening all churches and nuking the vatican hipocrisy must be stopped now.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2003-03-26 05:55pm

I called the Catholic Church the "Taliban of Christianity" a while back. Now I've just stopped recognizing the Catholic church as Christian.
It's not like they worship God, after all. The tradition and leadership of the Catholic religion is what's holy to them.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-26 06:03pm

Setzer wrote:I called the Catholic Church the "Taliban of Christianity" a while back. Now I've just stopped recognizing the Catholic church as Christian.
It's not like they worship God, after all. The tradition and leadership of the Catholic religion is what's holy to them.

They worship more than one god (the Trinity), so that's one strike against them. Plus, they arguably worship Mary, as well. They'll tell you they're just "honoring" her, of course, but they devote a day to kissing her ass for allegedly never having sex ... even though the Bible infers that she did. But let's not burden the Church with what the Bible actually says.

I wrote a paper back in high school blasting the practice of devoting a day to Mary because it was pointless, as did my Methodist best friend. That's right. Protestants and atheists agree: the Catholics are stupid.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-03-26 07:37pm

Durandal wrote:
Setzer wrote:I called the Catholic Church the "Taliban of Christianity" a while back. Now I've just stopped recognizing the Catholic church as Christian.
It's not like they worship God, after all. The tradition and leadership of the Catholic religion is what's holy to them.
They worship more than one god (the Trinity), so that's one strike against them. Plus, they arguably worship Mary, as well. They'll tell you they're just "honoring" her, of course, but they devote a day to kissing her ass for allegedly never having sex ... even though the Bible infers that she did. But let's not burden the Church with what the Bible actually says.

I wrote a paper back in high school blasting the practice of devoting a day to Mary because it was pointless, as did my Methodist best friend. That's right. Protestants and atheists agree: the Catholics are stupid.

Just to clear a couple things up:

The Trinity is not more than one God. It is one God, in three different, uhm, how to explain, incarnations, so to speak. The Father being God, the Son, Jesus, being God on earth, and, the Holy Spirit (or Ghost) being how God works through people. Essentially three different parts of one God, not three different Gods.

Now that that is cleared up, it is things like this that make me disagree with the Catholic church (not Catholics in general, but the leadership). The Church considers the Pope to be infallible. There is something about that that just strikes me as wrong. No one is perfect, other than Jesus Christ, the Bible itself states that. Heck, that is what is central to Christianity.

Now, I know many of you are not religious, so consider this your theology lesson for the day.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-03-26 07:40pm

Nathan F wrote: Now that that is cleared up, it is things like this that make me disagree with the Catholic church (not Catholics in general, but the leadership). The Church considers the Pope to be infallible. There is something about that that just strikes me as wrong. No one is perfect, other than Jesus Christ, the Bible itself states that. Heck, that is what is central to Christianity.

Now, I know many of you are not religious, so consider this your theology lesson for the day.

I thought since we were in the theological mode I would clarrify on the fallibility issue since it is often misunderstood and used against the church, the Pope is ONLY considered infallible when he is interpretting Church doctrine. Now to add an antidote to this infallibility doctrine. The Pope did declare to Spanish kings that Indians did not have souls as such they could be enslaved and used by the Spanish crown as they pleased. So much for that unless God was feeling particularly nasty during the 1400's and 1500's.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-03-26 07:46pm

That's disgusting.

Also for Pu-239...eh I lived in N.Va...and there were a lot of fundies, but not as many as some place in the bible belt by any stretch.

That and your parents are just being mean, My mom is Korean and not once has she ever said I needed to live with her till I'm 35 to make sure she's not in a home.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-26 07:57pm

Nathan F wrote:Just to clear a couple things up:

The Trinity is not more than one God. It is one God, in three different, uhm, how to explain, incarnations, so to speak. The Father being God, the Son, Jesus, being God on earth, and, the Holy Spirit (or Ghost) being how God works through people. Essentially three different parts of one God, not three different Gods.

Not what I was taught. They are supposedly all God, but there is only one God, yet each of them is distinctly God, which is a contradiction. Yet another one of those "mysteries" that we all have to accept on faith.

Now that that is cleared up, it is things like this that make me disagree with the Catholic church (not Catholics in general, but the leadership). The Church considers the Pope to be infallible. There is something about that that just strikes me as wrong. No one is perfect, other than Jesus Christ, the Bible itself states that. Heck, that is what is central to Christianity.

The Church only considers the Pope to be infallible under certain conditions:

1. When he speaks ex cathedra (i.e. from his official position).
2. When he declares something that is already generally agreed upon.
3. When he speaks about a matter of the faith.

Those conditions must all be satisfied before the Pope is considered to have made an infallible statement. Of course, the Pope has perverted the last condition to make himself infallible with respect to moral issues, as well, and he's ignored the second condition a few times (such as when he declared that women would never be priests).

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-03-26 08:22pm

Actually I believe the pope only has used Papal Infallibilitytwice in the history of the papacy:

One to say that Mary was indeed born sinless in the immaculate conception, and yes that is what the immaculate conception is.

Second is that Mary was taken up into heaven as is, and didn't die.

I'll check this out later, but I believe that the otehr things mentioned were merely statements on paal law, and what they thought was right an didn't actually have papal infallibility attached.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-26 08:53pm

The Catholic Church has always been for the church rather than for it's parishoners. And this appalling act by the Church and the sad state of affairs regarding pedophile preists that illuminate that so clearly. It's a sad state of affairs that such and institution has survived and gotten away with it for the better part of two millenia.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-03-26 09:11pm

It used to be worse. At least now they dont ave an economic strangle hold on people. They used to have a rather large tax(I think it was eiter 1/3 or 1/5) on food. And during the middle ages, that was bad.