So WHY is America more religious? Seriously?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-09 05:20am

In America, religion is a business. Clergymen must compete with other groups to gain members. This is part of the reason.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-03-09 08:35am

EVEYTHING in the us is more extreme. why should religion be an exception?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-03-09 01:20pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Are there any ratings for Canada? After all, you did give us the Toronto Airport movement.

What was that?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-09 01:40pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: That's an understatement. Nearly half the population thinks the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so.
What is your source on that?
Time Magazine poll.

No offense but Time Magazine has a history of shreeking the end is nigh with regards to religion. I'd like to see the definitions they used. Because I have a feeling they lumped everyone from the YECs to some who thinks God had some nebulous hand in it evolution in the category Creationist.

Darth Wong wrote:Also, from New Humanist magazine:
Gallup poll asking if "God created people in present form within last 10,000 years":
1982: 44%
1991: 47%
1993: 47%
1997: 44%
1999: 47%
2001: 45%

Gallup poll asking if "Evolution occurred over millions of years guided by God":
1981: 37%
1991: 40%
1993: 35%
1997: 44%
1999: 40%
2001: 37%

Gallup poll asking if "Evolution occurred with no interference by God":
1981: 9%
1991: 9%
1993: 11%
1997: 10%
1999: 9%
2001: 12%
Sorry, but at the risk of being labelled an America-basher, that's just fucking pathetic. If you guys want to avoid being labelled fundie morons as a nation, get that last set of figures up.

The first numbers worry me but some how I don't think it's quite that big a problem. The poll probably only got the people that give a damn to respond and of course that's going to be a disproportionate amount of fundamentalists.

Beware of using opinion polls because they tend to be biased by the conditions they were taken under.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-03-09 02:15pm

Most people I talk to at school are creationists. even in my anatomy class I am surrounded by them. I am one of two atheists in that class(though I am not sure about the teacher, he has a masters in zoology, and I know isnt a creationist) But i have gotten into debates in there.

But if my school is any indication those numbers may be pretty accurate

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-03-09 02:35pm

Darth Wong wrote:Also, from New Humanist magazine:
Gallup poll asking if "God created people in present form within last 10,000 years":
1982: 44%
1991: 47%
1993: 47%
1997: 44%
1999: 47%
2001: 45%

Gallup poll asking if "Evolution occurred over millions of years guided by God":
1981: 37%
1991: 40%
1993: 35%
1997: 44%
1999: 40%
2001: 37%

Gallup poll asking if "Evolution occurred with no interference by God":
1981: 9%
1991: 9%
1993: 11%
1997: 10%
1999: 9%
2001: 12%
Sorry, but at the risk of being labelled an America-basher, that's just fucking pathetic. If you guys want to avoid being labelled fundie morons as a nation, get that last set of figures up.

Well, the number of YECs is down, and the number of evolutionists has gone up a little (But if you count the decline in the "divinely started evolution", it cancels out, I suppose). Still, it's not too good, and a fluctuation in a few percentage points really doesn't indicate a large much progress.

Until Americans decide to find answers from some legitimate scientific journal instead of their minister, there will always be fundie morons trying to get Creationism in schools, and until Americans stop being so gullible, there will always be school boards putting that religous mysticism in the classroom (Didn't that same Time poll say that around 40 percent of the people surveyed wanted Evolution theory replaced by Creation theory?").

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-03-09 02:40pm

(Didn't that same Time poll say that around 40 percent of the people surveyed wanted Evolution theory replaced by Creation theory?").

Over my dead body*puts on vinyl clothes, and takes out Katanas*

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-03-09 03:03pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Are there any ratings for Canada? After all, you did give us the Toronto Airport movement.
What was that?

It's a charismatic pentecostal group. Beny Hinn is a part of it, as are a lot of televangelists. I think they're called the Toronto Blessing now. Frauds and thieves, basically.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-03-09 04:30pm

Frank Hipper wrote:It's a charismatic pentecostal group. Beny Hinn is a part of it, as are a lot of televangelists. I think they're called the Toronto Blessing now. Frauds and thieves, basically.

Oh, I thought it must have been some group trying to change Pearson to "Jesus Christ is our Savior International Airport" or some other bullshit like that.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-09 04:37pm

Stormbringer wrote:No offense but Time Magazine has a history of shreeking the end is nigh with regards to religion. I'd like to see the definitions they used. Because I have a feeling they lumped everyone from the YECs to some who thinks God had some nebulous hand in it evolution in the category Creationist.

No, they specifically asked if people think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. No wiggle room there, and since the number is completely consistent with the Gallup poll asking a similar question, it is a somewhat corroborated figure.

Beware of using opinion polls because they tend to be biased by the conditions they were taken under.

If you have some countervailing evidence to indicate that their figures are grossly inaccurate rather than simply pointing out that they're not GUARANTEED accurate, please provide it. So far, I'm not seeing anything.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-03-09 04:44pm

Darth Wong wrote: That's an understatement. Nearly half the population thinks the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so.

Shit, a lot of stupid people in this country..., not unexpected though...

Historical revisionism. For whatever reason, Americans are perfectly willing to lap up revisionist nonsense about their own history. They associate Christianity with the formation of their country and all of its success, and many believe in the myth of a "Golden Age" of family values and Christian righteousness. Symbolic revisionism such as the myth of "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" dating back to the beginning is also very powerful.

I wonder what caused that though.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-09 04:47pm

Historical revisionism. For whatever reason, Americans are perfectly willing to lap up revisionist nonsense about their own history. They associate Christianity with the formation of their country and all of its success, and many believe in the myth of a "Golden Age" of family values and Christian righteousness. Symbolic revisionism such as the myth of "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" dating back to the beginning is also very powerful.

It's funny, my high school band director (who was black, and participated in the Civil Rights Marches of the 1960s) always makes fun of people who say that we need to go back to how America used to be by saying "OK, guys, pick a year when things were so much better than they are now."

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-09 04:47pm

Fundies in the 1940's and 1950's thought it up.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-03-09 04:50pm

ArmorPierce wrote:
Historical revisionism. For whatever reason, Americans are perfectly willing to lap up revisionist nonsense about their own history. They associate Christianity with the formation of their country and all of its success, and many believe in the myth of a "Golden Age" of family values and Christian righteousness. Symbolic revisionism such as the myth of "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" dating back to the beginning is also very powerful.
I wonder what caused that though.

Cold War hatred of atheistic communism and the Reagan/Falwell camp in the 80s. Mix with gullible herd mentality and voila!

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-03-09 04:52pm

Hmm..., perhaps I should have thought before I posted cause now that I think about it, I already knew that. Just didn't put it together with the US becoming more fundie.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-09 04:53pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:
Historical revisionism. For whatever reason, Americans are perfectly willing to lap up revisionist nonsense about their own history. They associate Christianity with the formation of their country and all of its success, and many believe in the myth of a "Golden Age" of family values and Christian righteousness. Symbolic revisionism such as the myth of "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" dating back to the beginning is also very powerful.
I wonder what caused that though.
Cold War hatred of atheistic communism and the Reagan/Falwell camp in the 80s. Mix with gullible herd mentality and voila!

It's too bad, that bastard Marx made it much more difficult to be an atheist than it would have been had atheism not been part of his ideology.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-09 04:55pm

Durran Korr wrote:It's too bad, that bastard Marx made it much more difficult to be an atheist than it would have been had atheism not been part of his ideology.

Like it would have made any difference. Even if you can get a fundie to admit that atheism is not necessarily communist, he will still come at you with his idiotic mantra that if you don't believe in a higher power, you must not have any moral values.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-09 04:57pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:It's too bad, that bastard Marx made it much more difficult to be an atheist than it would have been had atheism not been part of his ideology.
Like it would have made any difference. Even if you can get a fundie to admit that atheism is not necessarily communist, he will still come at you with his idiotic mantra that if you don't believe in a higher power, you must not have any moral values.

I think it would. Without the red herring of communism it would have been much more difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to attack and stigmatize atheism.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-09 04:58pm

Durran Korr wrote:I think it would. Without the red herring of communism it would have been much more difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to attack and stigmatize atheism.

I have gotten many fundies to conceded that atheism is unrelated to communism except by coincidence. It doesn't dampen their hatred of atheism one bit.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-03-09 05:30pm

Yea darth wong is correct there.

In AP European History Class the other day my best friend was arguing against the death penalty, someone then said "how can you take a moral argument, you are an atheist". She and I both freaking flipped on the guy and went off about how morality comes from humans, and true morality is believing something is wrong, purely because you think it is wrong, rather than because you are afraid of some fist shaking at you from the clouds. And I live in a pretty non-religious area (probably 15-20 % of the population are atheist/agnostic with most of the rest being very moderate)

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-03-09 06:10pm

Is it possible that there are fundies in the media that deliberately distort such polls in order to make them and their kind feel better?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-09 06:12pm

Fox News.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-03-09 06:30pm

The problem with us Americans is that too many of us are too lazy to read a book or anything halfway technical, which makes us believe the person that seems to have all the answers and talks smart. Another problem is that we also tend to believe the person that talks the loudest. We like being part of a crowd. Also, we do not really change our view points.

It's the perfect breeding ground for stupidity.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-03-09 06:38pm

Arrow Mk84 wrote:The problem with us Americans is that too many of us are too lazy to read a book or anything halfway technical, which makes us believe the person that seems to have all the answers and talks smart. Another problem is that we also tend to believe the person that talks the loudest. We like being part of a crowd. Also, we do not really change our view points.

It's the perfect breeding ground for stupidity.

Yeah, it's perfect behavior for settlers (That way, they're ignorant of all the horridly disgusting dangers out in the wild, a la Donner Party), but it's crap behavior nowadays, and old habits die hard.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-03-09 07:35pm

Arrow Mk84 wrote:The problem with us Americans is that too many of us are too lazy to read a book or anything halfway technical, which makes us believe the person that seems to have all the answers and talks smart. Another problem is that we also tend to believe the person that talks the loudest. We like being part of a crowd. Also, we do not really change our view points.

It's the perfect breeding ground for stupidity.

Since they're too lazy to read, they watch TV. And what do they usually watch on TV? Stuff like the 700 Club, or some show about scientific conspiracies. That makes them believe in nonsense like Young-Earth Creationism, Biblical innerancy, or in the case of some people, alien abductions and the paranormal.

But then, the question is how they got to be so gullible. I'm guessing that's because of a weak education system.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

So WHY is America more religious? Seriously?

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