Empire vs Feddies - Reasons behind the invasion

[von Neufeld]

I started thinking over the reasons why the Empire would waste time and resources invading the Federation and other Star Trek nations.
The obvious ones are:
1. For the glory of the Empire!
2. They associate with Rebel scum!
3. As a forward base to wipe out those pesky Borg before they becomes a threat.
4. A short victorious war to unite the Empire.

If we ignore these, what else of intrest would draw the Empire to the AQ and BQ? Economical reasons? Social study? Technological reasons?
Assume that the Empire have discovered the UFP and that the UFP lacks all knowledge of the Empire.

[Admiral Johnason]

Did you read the site and think that in all of this site's history, that this topic would have been answered at least six times? Jesus Tap-dancing Christ boy.

[Wicked Pilot]

It's a very simple motivation, keep descent at bay. People are less likely to critize the government if it is supposidly keeping them safe from some outside threat.

[Darth Wong]

The post-ROTJ Empire Remnant could actually use the AQ as a base of operations and military buildup without the NR knowing. They're currently labouring under a NR strategy of "containment", to use a realpolitik term. This means a huge military buildup would be noticed and suppressed by the NR's superior forces, hence a stalemate is reached. However, if they had a secret bridge to the AQ, they could set up bases, conquer and/or recruit/subvert local powers to become their lackeys in exchange for weapons and military assistance, and conduct a huge military buildup without the NR's knowledge.

That would probably make for a good fanfic.

[SPOOFE]

The pre-ROTJ Empire would use an invasion of the Alpha Quadrant as an excuse to justify their massive military expense and tyrannical policy. The motivations of the AQ and its abilities would be exaggerated and twisted, thus giving the entire Empire and its subjugated peoples an external enemy to focus on as a means of distracting rebellion.

[Master of Ossus]

Natural resources and slaves are the other obvious reasons.

[Soontir C'boath]

If we ignore these, what else of intrest would draw the Empire to the AQ and BQ? Economical reasons? Social study? Technological reasons?
Assume that the Empire have discovered the UFP and that the UFP lacks all knowledge of the Empire.

Man you just answered yourself bud.....

Oh yea one more thing...DABOO GIRLS!!!!

Cyaround,
Jason

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Natural resources and slaves are the other obvious reasons.

What makes you think there's durasteel, or hypermatter, or tibanna gas, or any of that stuff in the ST galaxy? Its never been mentioned. And if it was in large enough numbers to be useful to the Empire, why wouldn't ST civs use them?

Slave labor? When has the Empire used slave labor? Slave labor is easily hundreds of times less efficient that the automated processes of the droid factories on Geonosis, for example. Slaves could never produce anything fast enough to be useful. The Empire would more likely establish a ship yard like KDY instead.

I personally like the idea of simply using that space to harbor Imperial ships. The Empire could use that area to regroup and repair there ships, and surprise attack the Rebels by appearing out of thin air back into the SW univerese.

[irishmick79]

Slave labor? When has the Empire used slave labor? Slave labor is easily hundreds of times less efficient that the automated processes of the droid factories on Geonosis, for example. Slaves could never produce anything fast enough to be useful. The Empire would more likely establish a ship yard like KDY instead.

So I take it you haven't heard the story about how Han met Chewbacca....

[Enforcer Talen]

that's always struck me as odd. why use a wookie to maintain your ship when you can have a droid, who doesnt need feeding, doesnt rebel or talk back, and doesnt need guards?

[Darth Garden Gnome]

So I take it you haven't heard the story about how Han met Chewbacca....

Thank you for jarring my memory. So the Empire does use slaves to some degree, BUT it was for small time work-right? The Wookies weren't making space ships were they? I hope not, because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Anyways, humans, Klingons, Romulans ect. aren't nearly as physically adept as Wookies, which may have made them valuble for slave labor.

[Enforcer Talen]

and yevetha, and gorothites, and mon cal. . . the eu enslaves everyone, apparently.

which is very, very odd. did the rebellion kill the droids?

[Admiral Johnason]

So I take it you haven't heard the story about how Han met Chewbacca....

Thank you for jarring my memory. So the Empire does use slaves to some degree, BUT it was for small time work-right? The Wookies weren't making space ships were they? I hope not, because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Anyways, humans, Klingons, Romulans ect. aren't nearly as physically adept as Wookies, which may have made them valuble for slave labor.

They ae used for mining, ship production (SDs and the DS,) and other things.

[Sabastian Tombs]

The pre-ROTJ Empire would use an invasion of the Alpha Quadrant as an excuse to justify their massive military expense and tyrannical policy. The motivations of the AQ and its abilities would be exaggerated and twisted, thus giving the entire Empire and its subjugated peoples an external enemy to focus on as a means of distracting rebellion.

What massive military? The Empire had 25,000 stardestroyers. If the Empire had only 1,000,000 member worlds, that only 1 stardestroyer per 40 worlds. The EU gives member world numbers much larger, though. You use a number like 3,000,000 worlds, you get 1 ship to 120 worlds. If the Empire can't even put one capital ship over each world, it's not much of a dictatorship.

IMHO, of course.

[Sabastian Tombs]

The pre-ROTJ Empire would use an invasion of the Alpha Quadrant as an excuse to justify their massive military expense and tyrannical policy. The motivations of the AQ and its abilities would be exaggerated and twisted, thus giving the entire Empire and its subjugated peoples an external enemy to focus on as a means of distracting rebellion.

What massive military? The Empire had 25,000 stardestroyers. If the Empire had only 1,000,000 member worlds, that only 1 stardestroyer per 40 worlds. The EU gives member world numbers much larger, though. You use a number like 3,000,000 worlds, you get 1 ship to 120 worlds. If the Empire can't even put one capital ship over each world, it's not much of a dictatorship.

IMHO, of course.

[paladin]

that's always struck me as odd. why use a wookie to maintain your ship when you can have a droid, who doesnt need feeding, doesnt rebel or talk back, and doesnt need guards?

Well, you know it does get cold and lonely in space...(que bad porno music)

[Ender]

What massive military? The Empire had 25,000 stardestroyers. If the Empire had only 1,000,000 member worlds, that only 1 stardestroyer per 40 worlds. The EU gives member world numbers much larger, though. You use a number like 3,000,000 worlds, you get 1 ship to 120 worlds. If the Empire can't even put one capital ship over each world, it's not much of a dictatorship.

IMHO, of course.

So despite the fct that you reference the EWU, showing you have read it, you really think that the ISD is their only ship?

[Ender]

that's always struck me as odd. why use a wookie to maintain your ship when you can have a droid, who doesnt need feeding, doesnt rebel or talk back, and doesnt need guards?

Thought: Post Clone war there was a huge anitdroid setiment, plus the devestation against the production capabilities of the Economic giants that backed the seperatists meant that for a while there it was cheaper to just use slaves. Plus given the ease with which droid programming can be overtaken, it is a safty method agaisnt rebellion sabatoge.

[Kerneth]

The Empire doesn't *need* to put one ISD over each planet to keep people terrified. When an ISD can show up above any planet, BDZ, and be back at Sector Headquarters in less than 48 hours, no sane planet is going to revolt against the Empire. The Death Star was just icing on the cake.

For that matter, look at what the Imps did to Topwara after it revolted, post-Endor. They drove the entire population out of the cities and reduced them to a pre-Industrial Revolution state of technology where they were reliant on the Empire for everything up to and including their food supply, living like animals while the Imperial garrison occupied the remaining cities. Not too many planetetary governments would be willing to risk that.

[irishmick79]

Thank you for jarring my memory. So the Empire does use slaves to some degree, BUT it was for small time work-right? The Wookies weren't making space ships were they? I hope not, because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Anyways, humans, Klingons, Romulans ect. aren't nearly as physically adept as Wookies, which may have made them valuble for slave labor.

I think slavery was used on a much larger scale by the Empire because there was always an environment where a slave spiecies would be best suited for (Mon Cals in water environs, Wookies for their strength, etc etc), and where droids were not the way to go.

And once slavery is traditionalized as an institution, it gets very hard to root out no matter how impractical it actually seems. I hate to whip out the argument about the Old South and start that shit again, but there are some aspects of their experience with slavery that probably would be similar to what the Empire experienced. Namely, the the Imperial power base would likely have included strong supporters of slavery, due to the structure of the New Order. Even if the more "enlightened" minds in the Empire saw that slavery was in the long run not the way to go, they probably would have been shouted down politically by the powers that be who supported slavery. That's kind of what was happening in the south at the outbreak of the Civil War, and I think there were probably similar situations going on in the Empire as well.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I think slavery was used on a much larger scale by the Empire because there was always an environment where a slave spiecies would be best suited for (Mon Cals in water environs, Wookies for their strength, etc etc), and where droids were not the way to go.

I'm sure droids can operate underwater. See pit droids, they are easily as strong as any Wookie but are much smaller, don't need to be fed, and won't rebel against their masters.

The latter paragraph is a mystery to me. Slavery was an efficient form of labor to the South during the Civil War. Slavery is not efficient for building fucking space ships. Especially when a droid is as strong as any slave, has far more knowledge on any sort of labor it will be doing than a slave-remember if you want to have a slave build a spaceship it has totaughtwhat to do. You can download a file into a droid and it will get to work as easily as the most experienced living laborer. Slaves have to be fed and sheltered, droids just shut down, pack up, and recharge. Slaves can rebel, which is what happened on Kashyyyk IIRC.

The only possible reason I can think of using slaves instead of droids would be because droids can be "hacked" or sabatoged, to fail their masters or give someone information. But those are hardly reasons that the Empire would drive down efficienty on starships one hundred fold because they were worried about sabetuers! I can't argue that they didn't use slaves, thats offcial, I just don't think you can justify why they would.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The post-ROTJ Empire Remnant could actually use the AQ as a base of operations and military buildup without the NR knowing. They're currently labouring under a NR strategy of "containment", to use a realpolitik term. This means a huge military buildup would be noticed and suppressed by the NR's superior forces, hence a stalemate is reached. However, if they had a secret bridge to the AQ, they could set up bases, conquer and/or recruit/subvert local powers to become their lackeys in exchange for weapons and military assistance, and conduct a huge military buildup without the NR's knowledge.

That would probably make for a good fanfic.

They'd have to very, very carefully.

A full-scale New Republic invasion would topple the Imperial Remnant quickly.

[SPOOFE]

What massive military? The Empire had 25,000 stardestroyers.

Along with unknown thousands of Victory Star Destroyers, unknown tens of thousands of frigates, unknown tens of thousands of cruisers, unknown tens of thousands of dreadnaughts, unknown hundreds of thousands of corvettes, gunships, blastboats, system patrol craft, pocket patrol boats, carriers, communications ships, interdictors, plus millions upon millions of TIE vessels and other fighter-sized craft.

The ISD to non-ISD ratio (excluding fighters) was probably several hundred to one, and that's being conservative.

[Typhonis 1]

hmmm could the remnant cover up the missing ships by saying they were going through an extensive refit?Or possibly being retired from service

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Raw materials. That's what the invasion of the Alpha Quadrant would be all about IMO. It would prevent an opportunity for a Congo-style exploitation for a bunch of barbaric primitives on a galactic scale. The profits would be nearly incalculable.