Let’s Play “Spot the Ten Outrages!” (Public School Version)

[Max]

Mr. Marshall is free to register and respond, if he so chooses. .

I find it hilarious that the guy on "ethicalarms" apparently is unable to debate honestly or to handle criticism.

If you look further into the site, it's nothing more than an anti-Obama site. So the site name is highly misleading. I was surprised to not find a section devoted to Obama's birth certificate being faked. I didn't really get too far into the site since it's quite obvious, by the content I did manage to get through, what the author's intended purpose is... so perhaps there is a section devoted to that.

[Thanas]

And he has now deleted all responses from board members on the article. What a coward.

[evilsoup]

Lol, maybe I should have been less of a dick with that darling shit.
Because really, he has a point (in that article), that was a shitty lesson and the teacher was clearly biased. But of course, I have no way to judge whether that's the usual level for the US school system (though his idea of taping all school classes is pretty stupid).

And really, Mr Bean you were nitpicking over the use of the word 'outrage'. Or do you really think shitty teachers are no big deal?

[Terralthra]

stuff...
Face it, a lovely little group of insiders feeding off one another and refusing all attempts of transparency.
and more stuff...

That's a whole lot of positive claims there, Wmciggs. Can you provide evidence to any?
1. Obama's father is an arab. can you show this?

Obama's father was a Luo, the son of a Luo mother and a Luo father. I'm still trying to figure out how dark-skinned Africans from Kenya are Arabs.

7. No papers published as editor of the Law Review with his name on them. No papers written by him while at the University of Chicago as a lecturer.

OK- i'm not going to ask you to prove a negative, but i will ask you if you've actually looked for any of the last two items yourself?

I actually posted links to three different articles describing his tenure as editor of the Law Review, including one specifically about an article he wrote.

[Thanas]

At this point I think Lambert has run away, as expected.

[Spoonist]

At this point I think Lambert has run away, as expected.

Nope, instead he posted over here and proclaimed victory in this thread...

Actually, I answered your copy-paste response to my post and severed you at your knees with fact.

[WmLambert]

...That's a whole lot of positive claims there, Wmciggs. Can you provide evidence to any?
1. Obama's father is an arab. can you show this?

Obama's father was Arab-African. Only his maternal grandmother was black, which made him legally black at 12.5%. His father can claim being black for entrance to U.S. schools, but since Obama's mother was white, he becomes 6.25% black which is under the official cutoff for ethnicity in Affirmative Action. However; we know people lie about their ethnicity, i.e. Elizabeth Warren, and the schools don't really vet them.

...2. Valerie Jarrett is obama's number one advisor. can you show this?

She is officially one of his top advisors on the White House web site, and since Axelrod has supposedly stepped down to take the campaign in hand, who else do you nominate? She has unrestrained access at any time and no other advisors do. As in all things Obama, transparency does not provide your answer easily, does it?

3. Al-Monsour has never denied his part in getting Obama into Harvard - can you show him being asked?

How about the YouTube interview with Percy Sutton explaining how al-Monsour was raising funds for him? Here. Khalid al-Monsour, himself, will not discuss his involvement, but said he will not deny it either. He calls it a distraction. Why?

Although Obama’s grades were purportedly less than spectacular at Occidental College and Columbia University he
managed to gain admission to Harvard Law School, helped by a letter of recommendation by Percy Sutton (1920-2009), who
was the attorney for the slain civil rights leader, Malcom “X” (Malcom Little). Sutton told reporters in 2008 that money for
Obama’s tuition had been raised by Khalid al-Mansour. (Al-Mansour, a close associate of Nation of Islam leader Louis
Farrakhan and Malcolm X, was previously known as Donald Warden. Warden was a lawyer and advisor to the Black Panther
Party. At a marina in San Francisco where they hid from the FBI, Warden, William Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, and others
planned the overthrow of the United States. Warden/al-Mansour eventually became a financial advisor to Saudi Prince al-
Waleed bin Talal, who donated $20 million to Harvard to fund an Islamic studies program, and gave $1.35 million to the
families of Hamas suicide bombers.)

This is background for who and why al-Monsour was in the equation.

4. Valerie Jarrett invented a "stay at home" job for Michelle. can you show this?

Let me describe it to you. Jarrett chaired the University of Chicago Medical Center BOD and created a job that never existed before for Michelle. Young State Senator Barack Obama crafted a bill to give the Medical center money for the care of patients who don’t have private insurance, and Michelle was given the job to dump all those non-payers off to small neighborhood facilities. It was Axelrod's company that was hired to sell that program to the community. Michelle received a $317,000 salary to offload a paid service to other healthcare providers.

5. 'his attendance record is still questioned' - so is his birthplace, by idiots. Can you show us a reason to seriously question his attendance?

Sure. Consider that Obama was given credit for things he didn't do. He convinced Illinois Senate Majority Leader Emil Jones to help him become a Senator by putting his name on bills he didn't write. here. Many others bristled at him "Hi-jacking" their bills for fame and fortune. What did he do? The record is foggy, neh?

6. No certified copy of an original embossed, signed paper birth certificate. - oh wait. you ARE an idiot.

Hawaii did not provide the paper. They told the AZ prosecutor everything was copacetic, but did not provide the backup paperwork. To most of us, it doesn't really matter. He could have been born in Oslo, Norway, as he said at the Law Review, and still remain in office. Nothing can trip him except impeachment, and the Senate will not do that to him. It was his strategy to make it an issue - Hillary started it - not GOP. The issue is his decision to not be transparent about it, which he could do with a word, not whether his family in Kenya lied when they said they were there when he was born.

7. No papers published as editor of the Law Review with his name on them. No papers written by him while at the University of Chicago as a lecturer. OK- i'm not going to ask you to prove a negative, but i will ask you if you've actually looked for any of the last two items yourself?

Yes, the only writings of interest are only attributed to him. Nothing bears his name.

You see, you demand me to provide proof of deceit. All I ask for is the promised transparency.

I don't care if Obama lied, because Reid would never allow an impeachment - but will there ever be vetting of Obama's record? Nothing I've said is even arguable - What I have is in the public record. You ask me for Obama's side of things that is suppressed. You are asking the wrong person for clarification.

[Simon_Jester]

That doesn't make any sense.

The public record is, well, public. Famously so. If all these things of which you speak are matters of public record, you should be able to tell us where to go to find them in the public record.

And if you are intelligent, I would expect you to have taken all this disparate information, gone past "OH MY GOD OBAMA'S BIOGRAPHY IS A FAKE!" and translated it into some kind of actual conclusion.

Instead, it sounds more like you're trying to bullshit up a pile of vague accusations, counting on us to be too lazy to falsify them, and hoping that this will somehow make the man look bad. Which looks especially foolish when you start throwing in stuff like "Obama didn't publish any papers during his time as a non-tenured adjunct lecturer!" Which just shows that you don't know what publications of papers really mean and are important for, and who is and is not expected to publish in academia.

Which is why you sound like a loony- you're pulling together all these little "factoids" which are themselves NOT VETTED, i.e. have not been examined with a critical eye by someone who knows enough to put them into context, strip out the fabrications and bullshit and hyped-up circumstantial evidence. And you're trying to turn them into a case that Obama is... um, something.



For that matter... what does "vetting of Obama's record" mean? What would be entailed? Can you give any examples of politicians whose record has been vetted? Is "vetting" a normal requirement of normal politicians? Or is it only a requirement for black politicians who 'look foreign' to you?

[Ultonius]

Obama's father was Arab-African. Only his maternal grandmother was black, which made him legally black at 12.5%.

Barack Sr's father Onyango was not an Arab, he merely took the Arabic name Hussein when he became a Muslim after spending time on Zanzibar. Looking at Obama's paternal line before Onyango, none of the names are Arabic: Onyango was the son of Obama, the son of Opiyo, the son of Okoth, the son of Obongo, the son of Otondi, the son of Ogelo, the son of Kisodhi, the son of Owiny, the son of Sigoma.

[Simon_Jester]

Lambert appears to be under the impression that being Muslim and being African are mutually exclusive...

[evilsoup]

What is this, why would anyone give a fuck whether Obama is descended from Arabs or whatever? Is this some kind of protocols of the elders of mecca shit or something?

Lambert, what exactly are you accusing him of?

[Simon_Jester]

I'm not sure he knows any more than you do- I get this sense that he's just hunting around for whatever quarter-credible inanity he can find that will be close enough to reality that people can't disprove what he's saying on the first Google search.

Or he's copy-pasting from the website of some mentally disturbed person who spends twelve hours a day trying to work out elaborate wrong explanations for various facts about Obama's life and creatively misinterpreting the public record, for whom there IS no point, making up a pack of nonsense about Obama is a point in and of itself.

[madd0ct0r]

hmmm. i appear to have been blocked from ethical alarms website (this might be the commie government here doing that in all fairness).

i'll get back to this thread later when i've got time. work bites again.

[UnderAGreySky]

Obama's father was Arab-African. Only his maternal grandmother was black, which made him legally black at 12.5%. His father can claim being black for entrance to U.S. schools, but since Obama's mother was white, he becomes 6.25% black which is under the official cutoff for ethnicity in Affirmative Action. However; we know people lie about their ethnicity, i.e. Elizabeth Warren, and the schools don't really vet them.

I will pick out* only the first point you have made, because you have failed to provide citation for almost anything. Barack Hussein Obama Sr was

raised in the village of Nyang’oma Kogelo, Siaya District, Nyanza Province.[13] His family are members of the Luo ethnic group.

The Luo are not Arab:

The Luo (also called Joluo, singular Jaluo) are an ethnic group in Kenya, eastern Uganda, and northern Tanzania. They are part of a larger group of ethnolinguistically related Luo peoples who inhabit an area ranging from southern Sudan, northern and eastern Uganda, western Kenya, and northern Tanzania.

Please admit you were not only wrong, but you failed to provide a citation for your claims. Also, please provide citations for your existing claims else I will assume you are making shit up.

*my source might be wikipedia, but its sources are published sources.

[PeZook]

I'm not sure he knows any more than you do- I get this sense that he's just hunting around for whatever quarter-credible inanity he can find that will be close enough to reality that people can't disprove what he's saying on the first Google search.

I'm getting a serious conspiracy theorist vibe from him.

"One of these eleven thousand pictures has a...thing...that I don't think should be on it, and NASA won't explain why in excruciating detail."

Public records are not perfect, and the President's office won't take time to clear up every minor irrelevant detail, therefore...what? Does "transparency" mean "access to perfect records of every minute of a man's life"?

[madd0ct0r]

yes. and everyone he's ever come into contact with. durr.

i also am being blocked from my own blog, so i guess the goverment has taken an objecton to wordpress as a whole. i withdraw any insinuations.

[Simon_Jester]

Ironically, if I understand Lambert rightly, the sort of secret-police-like agency that does keep records on people detailed enough to be able to "vet" them the way Lambert thinks Obama should be "vetted..." they wouldn't be telling him anything much. And now that Obama runs the government, they'd probably be giving him enough trouble to make him sorry he'd ever brought it up.

I mean, yes you can "vet" someone in general terms, make sure they're not a complete fraud and won't do anything ghastly to embarass your campaign in public. But it sounds like Lambert wants a much much much finer-toothed comb, because he considers ANY irregularity to be evidence of... um, something.

I wonder how well his own background would stand up under such a check, come to think of it.

[Ahriman238]

I'm rather confused how this thread went this way. Ok, so one teacher in podunk-ville NC is either not very good, or was just having an insanely bad day, which does happen to the best of us. That's certainly grounds for a stern talking-to from administration behind closed doors, but this birther/conspiracy theory site seizes it as a talking point.

Ok. This also happens all the time. Why is everyone making a big deal over the minutia of Obama's life now? Who is this Lambert fellow, and what's his stake in any of this?

@Lambert, on this site, we treat debate as a full-contact sport, with a firm tradition of "put up or shut up." I accept that it can be rough the first couple of times. Maybe you could take the time to clarify your position and back up your claims? At least so I can understand them?

[WmLambert]

...this birther/conspiracy theory site seizes it as a talking point.

Ok. This also happens all the time. Why is everyone making a big deal over the minutia of Obama's life now? Who is this Lambert fellow, and what's his stake in any of this?

@Lambert, on this site, we treat debate as a full-contact sport, with a firm tradition of "put up or shut up." I accept that it can be rough the first couple of times. Maybe you could take the time to clarify your position and back up your claims? At least so I can understand them?

Sorry, been visiting family over the holidays. I already answered your questions, but will re-respond.

I clicked on a post that was linked in a forum I visited more regularly, and I replied to it, which brought me here. I am not a political activist, simply a graphic designer and construction estimator who reads voraciously and usually posts at AI-Jane,org - a spin-off from Orson Scott Cards Ornery forum, or the Supply-side forum. I do not like disinformation and don't believe it is in anyone's interests to ignore lies or well-intentioned posts that just spread ignorance. There are too many useful idiots who take incorrect PC and embrace it religiously. It is hard to dispute them, because the cliché posters require you to post what defines what they said as well as what disproves it. Even then - they will respond with a copy-paste from some subjective website that circle-posts with a dozen others, and pretend the number of postings somehow gives it verity.

In this instance, I responded to the Obama cultism that the teacher exhibited, and got cut off at the knees.

Take for instance the Luo question. Since the posters here seem to use Wikipedia as their main source. using their same accepted source shows how only researching as far as a person can find things that reinforce incorrect preconceived notions is not enough. Going to the next step and looking up Sr. Obama's ethnicity here helps greatly. From that website and others, you can discover that the Luo people are a light skinned ethnic group from the Sudan. Males have a surname that begin with an "O" and females with an "A". The Luos are the people who enslaved the dark-skinned Africans and sold them into slavery. In Ethiopia and elsewhere, this group kept at arm's length from Blacks, and were on the opposite side of repressive laws that kept the two sides apart. Yes Obama is dark-skinned, and if you never understood anything that Martin Luther King, Jr, ever said, then that should be enough.

I have no racial animus and no problems with ethnicity, except where things like playing Affirmative Action is concerned, and lies like Elizabeth Warren used to gain preference using PC knee-jerk reactions. To me, whether Obama is Black legally or not is not worth bothering about, except where it is just more of the lack of transparency that Obama staked his Presidency upon. If it is not right to call him on it, then what moral system is in force? That the color of his skin is what some posters jumped on in indicative of the projection often used in debate.

I also find it interesting that the lack of supplied documents is the issue - but it gets turned into a "Birther" issue. Since I am a graphic professional, the layered .pdf that the White House generated is a huge story - but again unvetted by the media. There is no argument about whether the documents are real - they are not. We even know the I.P address of the Mac that created the document after it was released from Hawaii. The issue is not where he was born, but the coverup. As I said before, even if Obama was born in Oslo, Norway, as he said at the Law Review, it makes no difference. He can not be removed except by impeachment - and even if he were to be removed on the basis of not being a natural-born citizen for any reason - all the work-product would remain in affect forever until legislatively renovated.

It is the teacher who commanded her students like a brown-shirt that is the topic here. She is a poor teacher, we all agreed on that. Whether she will forever be barred from teaching is moot. I doubt she will be rewarded for it, though. Her mind-set is dangerous, and more widespread than should be. I cannot talk to most teachers without hearing disinformation, believed religiously and resistant to even reasonable questioning. It's just the way it is - but that does not mean it should be acceptable.

[Terralthra]

In this instance, I responded to the Obama cultism that the teacher exhibited, and got cut off at the knees.

Take for instance the Luo question. Since the posters here seem to use Wikipedia as their main source. using their same accepted source shows how only researching as far as a person can find things that reinforce incorrect preconceived notions is not enough. Going to the next step and looking up Sr. Obama's ethnicity here helps greatly. From that website and others, you can discover that the Luo people are a light skinned ethnic group from the Sudan. Males have a surname that begin with an "O" and females with an "A". The Luos are the people who enslaved the dark-skinned Africans and sold them into slavery. In Ethiopia and elsewhere, this group kept at arm's length from Blacks, and were on the opposite side of repressive laws that kept the two sides apart. Yes Obama is dark-skinned, and if you never understood anything that Martin Luther King, Jr, ever said, then that should be enough.

This is not the first time you've pulled this shit. I would like you to go back to the link you just provided and quote a paragraph of it that supports your claim that the Luo were "light-skinned." I can quote paragraphs that indicate specifically they were dark-skinned, and that contradict your assertion that the Sudan and Ethiopian Luo were "on the opposite side of repressive laws that kept the two sides apart."

For example:

The Anuak are a Luo people whose villages are scattered along the banks and rivers of southwestern area of Ethiopia, with others living directly across the border in southern Sudan. The name of this people is also spelled Anyuak, Agnwak, and Anywaa.
The Anuak who live in the lowlands of Gambela are also distinguished by the color of their skin and considered to be black Africans as opposed to most other Ethiopians living in the highlands who are of lighter color.

And:

There has been overt racial discrimination and marginalization by this government and by other ethnicities based on skin color. It has affected the Anuak’s access to education, health care and other basic services as well as limiting opportunities for development of the area.

So, this Luo people was dark-skinned, unlike other people in Ethiopia, and they were the target of discrimination and repression by the government, based on their dark skin color. Hm, this seems to be saying the exact opposite of what you claimed. So, you either managed to find a paragraph of this article that I can't find, in which case I'd really like you to point it out, or you were simply making shit up and hoping no one would read the link and discover this fact.

I also find it interesting that the lack of supplied documents is the issue - but it gets turned into a "Birther" issue. Since I am a graphic professional, the layered .pdf that the White House generated is a huge story - but again unvetted by the media. There is no argument about whether the documents are real - they are not. We even know the I.P address of the Mac that created the document after it was released from Hawaii. The issue is not where he was born, but the coverup. As I said before, even if Obama was born in Oslo, Norway, as he said at the Law Review, it makes no difference. He can not be removed except by impeachment - and even if he were to be removed on the basis of not being a natural-born citizen for any reason - all the work-product would remain in affect forever until legislatively renovated.

What a load of horseshit. "As a graphic designer," you should know that Apple/Adobe PDF OCR products automatically separate distinct elements of a scanned document into layers when creating a PDF from a scanned image. That a PDF created from a scan has exactly these is exactly what a graphic designer would expect, unless they were talking out of their ass.

[Ahriman238]

It is the teacher who commanded her students like a brown-shirt that is the topic here. She is a poor teacher, we all agreed on that. Whether she will forever be barred from teaching is moot. I doubt she will be rewarded for it, though. Her mind-set is dangerous, and more widespread than should be. I cannot talk to most teachers without hearing disinformation, believed religiously and resistant to even reasonable questioning. It's just the way it is - but that does not mean it should be acceptable.

Ok, how widespread do you think her mindset is? I teach, and I and most of my colleagues are aware that we are not supposed to try and influence our students' politics, even if we aren't likely to see real punishment the first or even second time we get caught.

What do you mean by "brown-shirt?" What sort of disinformation do you hear from most teachers you speak with?

Last year, at my school we had three kids pulled out of school because they learn evolution in Bio. Their parents were quite perturbed by the disinformation we taught to kids. Or I haven't once taught the works of a black author or poet without a student (and once or twice an adult) challenging my qualification to do so.

I'm sorry to harp on this point, but given the earlier mix-up with the Luo, I would like to ascertain if we are talking about deeply held political opinions that do not allow discussion, or facts that you, personally, find unpalatable. People have an unfortunate tendency to confuse the two, and assume that anyone who says something they do not like has an agenda.

[Spoonist]

What do you mean by "brown-shirt?"

Its really stupid in context.