World of Tanks

[Skywalker_T-65]

Maybe thats why I'm taking so long to break the Tier IV gap...going up the AMX tree, the BT tree (finally got the A-20 though), and the German mediums. Though I am looking forward to the Pz III/IV, the grind is getting tedious to say the least. Nothing beats the Frenchies in that regard though...I am really starting to hate the AMX 40. At least I have that Premium Stuart to make a lot of money (which it does remarkably well).

EDIT: Or rather, going up all three of those trees at once is taking so long. I just flat out gave up on the Pz38 grind, since those tanks aren't as good as the German tanks (technical German...not captured tanks that they say are German).

[Nephtys]

AMX40 and A20 by the way, are my votes for two worst tanks in the WHOLE game. Then narrowly followed by Pz38na.

They're just awful.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Yeah, thats why I gave up on the Pz38na grind...the PzIII is oh so much better. I can't say how good the A20 is, since I literally just got it. But thanks for the warning...I just hope the T34 is worth the wait. I am tempted to tank (no pun intended) the AMX 40 though...the only thing stopping me is how much work I've put into the thing.

[weemadando]

I am aiming for a StuG III as it's a favourite design. Then may look at mediums in another army.

[Vejut]

I liked the AMX 40, when I got it as top tank. Beyond that, I recall it kinda suffered from its armor not being enough to really stop anything decent above its tier, while even with the 75mm it didn't really have the gun to hurt anything above its tier either, added to it falling so short of speed spec, and then it got the matchmaking of most any other light. Frustrating. If I recall, I free XP ground my way out of that one.

Also from the high tier mediums post...hunh. I found it interesting that all the french fast stuff is moving up a tier--funnily enough, that means the French will now have tier 8 lights, and that they consider the Bat Chat a viable tier X (likely with some tweaks, but still). Also, they're moving the time horizon out a bit more--its possible the British line really will get capped with that 105mm L7.

[Simon_Jester]

Personally I liked the AMX-40; I may have lucked out with top tank a lot, but I found it reasonably bouncy and effective, although I don't regret selling it the way I do the T-28 or the M4. Playing it like a small (relatively) well protected heavy tank was fun.

I also had a decent time in the A-20, mostly because by that point I was starting to learn to lurk well behind the battle line and dash into the enemy artillery park when I saw an opening. It worked often enough to make the tank feel rewarding. Granted, the A-20's firepower sucks and I had to ram enemy SPGs to do useful damage to them, but from my point of view that was nice too; it taught me about ramming tactics.

The 38nA, though? That was a lousy excuse for a tank, plain and simple...

[Skywalker_T-65]

Well, the matchmaker hates me apparently. I never get any higher than the middle with the AMX...probably why I dislike it so much.

I still haven't tried out the A-20 yet (looking for a job takes a lot of time you know) but I'll post thoughts on it when I do.

And yes...the 38nA wasn't worth my time...if I had known how much that thing sucked I would have concentrated on the PzIII. I am now, but lost time and all that.

[The Vortex Empire]

If the 38na wasn't classified as a scout tank, it'd be fantastic. It is not a scout, so it does exceptionally poorly in the high tier matches it gets thrown into all the time, but in tier 4 or 5 battles it's great.

The A-20 was probably the worst experience in the game, next to the AMX 38.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Great...I have the worst tank in the game now...oh well, I chose this path and I'll stick with it. Even if the A-20 sucks worse than any tank out there.

Though I had more fun with the AMX 38 than I've been having with the 40. I finally got at the top...which would have been great...except the map was Komarin!

Why?!! Why must this tank torture me so?!

[xthetenth]

the French will now have tier 8 lights

They already do, the 13 90 gets bad matchmaking compared to the tier 8 mediums. I believe the Lorraine 40t currently gets friendlier matchmaking than the AMX 13 90, which is basically a tier 8.5 right now.

they consider the Bat Chat a viable tier X (likely with some tweaks, but still).

It's the most clan wars viable medium right now as something like a heavy T-50-2 with the gun and HP to really stick it to arty and make a fight of things if needed, plus a nice bit of flex capability.

About premium stuff, I'd say the premium time and the tier 8 premiums are the most worthwhile things to spend money on. The tier 8 premium will make you credits so you don't have to worry nearly as hard about that sort of thing, and the premium time will speed your grinds a lot and mean you won't lose money till tier 8, or you won't lose money at all if you're good (although this is a bit hard and tier ten pubbing sucks). You can get a month of premium for about 15 bucks, and that's probably enough to get a tank to tier 7 from tier 1 if you play a good bit during that time (probably 300 rounds if you don't have to worry about credits, so I'd guess under 2 hours a day). It helps a lot with credit income especially because repair and rearming costs cut directly into your profits, so that 50% more is a lot more since it's pure profit. Getting from tier 7 to 9 and 9 to 10 are also probably what to expect from a month at 2 hours a day, although you'll need to drive well to keep credits up. I've generally run on a cycle where I play one game a lot if any so when I'm playing I'll easily go from a tier 8 to a tier 10 within a month and then not play anything other than clan wars for a while. If you can swing it, premium's a huge help, I've easily earned back the time I spent working for some of the gold I used for premium.

One thing I must recommend is playing two tanks at once rather than waiting between battles. It helps a lot.

[weemadando]

Yeah. I've got an Marder and H35 that I alternate between at the moment.

[Alkaloid]

Man, the T20 is a strange beast. I think I'm getting the hang of it, most hits I take now are to the turret, but I still occasionally forget that even though it will pull 50kph+ its got less acceleration than a heavy, so I tend to get caught out in the open a bit still. Takes a lot of killing for something with armour that is at least in theory eggshell thin though.

How many of you "high tier" guys can give me an estimate on your costs thus far and whether or not there's certain things I should look out for if I want to maximise return on investment?

Well at the moment I'm running a KV-3 and a T20, a Jumbo to earn credits in a hurry if I need to, a BDR because I want to play with the canister tanks, and an SU-5 because I'm ever so slowly trying to get a decent SPG, I'm a fairly casual player and I haven't spent a cent. Most cash and XP is performance based and you will learn most tricks to help out there at around tier 4, so my only real advice is always carry some HE ammo so you can lob that at a high tier heavy you can't pen, hold your fire unless you have a fast firing gun with cheap shells like the M1A2 or the Russian long 57, then chancing a shot at cruising speed is worth your while for the satisfaction of the 1 in 100 hit, ignore anyone who shouts rush in the first 2 minutes of a match, and always assume everyone on your team is an idiot because they are, winning generates cash and XP faster and you are going to have to plug enormous holes they leave in your defense occasionally, so keep an eye on the map in the first 30 seconds and see what everyone does. Also if you are the last tank on your team after everyone charges across the plain in Malinovka or does something equally stupid, don't listen to the guys telling you to cap. They are stupid and you should hide to save the repair costs and keep your crew alive and never feel bad about it.

[Thunderfire]

Great...I have the worst tank in the game now...oh well, I chose this path and I'll stick with it. Even if the A-20 sucks worse than any tank out there.

The KV-4 ist the worst tank at the moment. It has a huge weak spot on the top of its turret.

[Rekkon]

Since you're starting german TDs, it's generally accepted that the Marder is super fun. The Hetzer is difficult (you don't really have any armor, and are somewhat less gunned than the Marder), but the Stug is good if you get the hang of it. The JP4 is... bad. The Jagpanther is good though. Ferdinand is alright, and JTiger is quite scary, with possibly the best gun in the game.

The Hetzer is ok once fully upgraded, but stock or near stock it is pure pain without enough speed to get somewhere useful or a good enough gun to threaten things, and I hope you were not in love with the Marder's generous traverse window. When you can get a match as top tier, your front armor is quite good, but beyond that all it has is slope, which makes bouncing rounds unreliable at best. If you run the 105mm you can reliably damage anything the MM throws at you, as well as one-shot plenty of lower tier foes. The Jagdpanzer IV has the potential to be good, but only with a skilled crew and player. You really need to know your maps and the weaknesses of all the tanks you are likely to fight. Its DPS is high, provided you can work around its mediocre penetration, which is a big if.

I must disagree on the Ferdinand/Jagdtiger however. The Ferdi is awesome fully upgraded. A 128mm cannon at Tier 8 lets you reliably put a lot of hurt on any top tier and one-shot things up to tier 5. If you are top tier, you are a complete monster; your front armor is good protection, your mobility adequate and you have pretty good gun traverse and depression. The Jagdtiger is basically more of the same, but with worse matchmaking. I just have more fun running the Ferdi. The JT's traverse is more limited, as is its mobility. Your frontal armor is thicker, but the increase does not seem to keep pace with your foe's incresed penetration. The gun IS awesome though. The long 128 has incredible accuracy, improved damage and virtually no recoil. Properly kitted, both 128s have really good rate of fire too.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

I think Mr. Coffee put it best, there really aren't any bad tanks, only bad drivers. A good driver can take a "bad" tank and demolish people with it, or a bad driver can take a "good" tank and fail miserably. Also the matchmaker hates everybody, its just a hazard you have to get used to.


Speaking of German TDs, in my KV-3, I once mistook a jagdtiger for a jagdpanther, with predictable and comical results. "WTF? How'd I ding off of a jagdpanth--? Oh crap, that's a jagdTIGER! Shitshitshitshit." BOOM!

[weemadando]

I put a bit of money in last night to get premium membership for a while (nice shift to the curve that is) and to do some XP => free XP conversions.

I'll see how I go now.

[Nephtys]

Since you're starting german TDs, it's generally accepted that the Marder is super fun. The Hetzer is difficult (you don't really have any armor, and are somewhat less gunned than the Marder), but the Stug is good if you get the hang of it. The JP4 is... bad. The Jagpanther is good though. Ferdinand is alright, and JTiger is quite scary, with possibly the best gun in the game.

The Hetzer is ok once fully upgraded, but stock or near stock it is pure pain without enough speed to get somewhere useful or a good enough gun to threaten things, and I hope you were not in love with the Marder's generous traverse window. When you can get a match as top tier, your front armor is quite good, but beyond that all it has is slope, which makes bouncing rounds unreliable at best. If you run the 105mm you can reliably damage anything the MM throws at you, as well as one-shot plenty of lower tier foes. The Jagdpanzer IV has the potential to be good, but only with a skilled crew and player. You really need to know your maps and the weaknesses of all the tanks you are likely to fight. Its DPS is high, provided you can work around its mediocre penetration, which is a big if.

I must disagree on the Ferdinand/Jagdtiger however. The Ferdi is awesome fully upgraded. A 128mm cannon at Tier 8 lets you reliably put a lot of hurt on any top tier and one-shot things up to tier 5. If you are top tier, you are a complete monster; your front armor is good protection, your mobility adequate and you have pretty good gun traverse and depression. The Jagdtiger is basically more of the same, but with worse matchmaking. I just have more fun running the Ferdi. The JT's traverse is more limited, as is its mobility. Your frontal armor is thicker, but the increase does not seem to keep pace with your foe's incresed penetration. The gun IS awesome though. The long 128 has incredible accuracy, improved damage and virtually no recoil. Properly kitted, both 128s have really good rate of fire too.

Fair enough. I've rarely seen good Ferdi players. Probably due to limited gun depression and very large profile (and poor camo), Ferdis I notice tend to be spotted quickly and destroyed, as their armor isn't quite good enough to stop frontal heavy tank fire. Jagdtigers however, still terrify me. The only tank with a higher terror factor to blunder into is the T110E5, and Obj704.

I'm used to driving low-profile American mediums, heavies and the Hellcat, all of which use hills as their armor. So having to actually crest in order to fire always bugs me.

---

Also as a tip, weemadando. If you are in a fast vehicle, or are somewhat near your base and you see people likely outnumbering your dots on the minimap... defend. Nobody defends in that game, which is what causes most losses. Often just a single tank going back and putting one or two rounds into the cap point (most cap points are incredibly exposed, giving good covered firing angles into them), will win the game. That's the SOLE reason I win literally 2 out of 5 of my games as a Hellcat (currently 71 percent win rate, woot!). Nobody defends, and that costs games. Everyone tries to rush the enemy cap first, and that almost /never/ is the best idea. Just one mobile defender with a decent gun will turn everything around.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I'm actually pretty good with both the AMX and the A-20. Only the AMX keeps getting stuck with people who can blow through its one advantage...insane (for its tier) armor. As for the the A-20...I got stuck in a match with Tier IX's...wtf...

And as for the defending thing...I tend to be the defender on my games. Mainly because the matchmaker rarely makes it to where I can do much with the scout tanks, other than defend.

[Nephtys]

Oh yeah, and Tiers are deceptive. Let me explain. Some classes of vehicle (and a few special vehicles) have unique matchmaker weight.

A Tier 5 Medium tank will be treated by Matchmaker as 'Tier 5 Medium'.
A Tier 5 Tank Destroyer will be treated as a 'Tier 5.2 Medium'
A Tier 5 Heavy Tank will be treated as 'Tier 6 Medium' or some cases, 'Tier 5.5 Medium'
A Tier 5 SPG will be treated as 'Tier 7.5'
A Tier 5 Light Tank will be treated as 'Tier 7-10', with the exception of french tanks.

Basically, expect to fight 1 tier 'higher' as a Heavy, and 2 tiers higher as an SPG or Light. That's the issue with Tier 4 lights. The game puts you into games as if you were a Tier 6 Medium.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Well, that explains things. Thanks, now I know what to expect with these tanks...and why people don't like the TIV gap.

[weemadando]

As a tank destroyer I usually hide out in the backfield I'm a position which gives good cover and concealment while also not being an obvious hidey hole. Usually let's me plink one or two to death before people get onto me...

[Simon_Jester]

Tier Four mediums and tank destroyers are more fun than Tier Four lights.

(I do not make an exception for the Lee; I had fun in that tank. I once killed a badly handled T20...)

[Rekkon]

Fair enough. I've rarely seen good Ferdi players. Probably due to limited gun depression and very large profile (and poor camo), Ferdis I notice tend to be spotted quickly and destroyed, as their armor isn't quite good enough to stop frontal heavy tank fire. Jagdtigers however, still terrify me. The only tank with a higher terror factor to blunder into is the T110E5, and Obj704.

I'm used to driving low-profile American mediums, heavies and the Hellcat, all of which use hills as their armor. So having to actually crest in order to fire always bugs me.

That is entirely possible. The high level German TDs need to stay well back where they can use their accuracy to snipe and increase the effectiveness of their armor through range. I have not noticed an unusual preponderance of Ferdi idiots, but I have not been looking for it either. You seem misinformed on its gun depression, which is quite good. I have not played any American lines though, so perhaps their depression numbers tend to be above average, skewing your perception (or German lines being below average skewing mine). I also play the French medium tree, but I know they suck in that aspect.

[xthetenth]

The KV-4 ist the worst tank at the moment. It has a huge weak spot on the top of its turret.

The KV-4 has the distinct advantage of a gun that can penetrate things and armor on some of its hull that can bounce things. The A-20 has straight ahead speed. No more. It's appalling.

(I do not make an exception for the Lee; I had fun in that tank. I once killed a badly handled T20...)

You shouldn't make exception for the Lee. It's a damn good tank. I've decided to roll a lowbie alt for clan use and that thing is the only thing keeping my win rate and kills per battle count at a nice high level. In 15 games I've gotten 27 kills, a top gun, a steel wall, and a 73% win rate. It's got a gun competitive with the TDs in its tier, armor, reasonable speed and the best turn rate of any fixed mount based tank in the game. A TD that trades camo for armor, turning, and HP is a very interesting proposition as an assault gun, especially with that side mount gun.

Also, the number one killer of profit in my experience is tier 7-8 heavy and TD guns with their 1000 credit shells. The Russian 122 and up, the US 105 and up, the German 105 and up and the French 100 and up will straight up mug you if you aren't expecting it. That's one serious advantage the German tanks have, they have cheap ammo for the longest. Mediums win out big here with cheap shells until the last gun on the last tank in the line, and they'll have tier tens soon enough as well. With premium, I make buckets of cash in my T-44. My take is probably half of what I bring in in the Type 59, which isn't bad at all. Premium is best bought by the month, and it's damn handy if you like the game, especially if you want to play with friends since you can platoon with two friends instead of one.

[Thunderfire]

The KV-4 ist the worst tank at the moment. It has a huge weak spot on the top of its turret.

The KV-4 has the distinct advantage of a gun that can penetrate things and armor on some of its hull that can bounce things. The A-20 has straight ahead speed. No more. It's appalling.

A-20 46.93 W/L ratio
KV-4 45.77 W/L ratio

Many tanks are able to damage a KV-4 frontally. Just shoot the huge weak spot on the top of its turret. The A-20 is a scout. A good scout is able to decide a match. A T8 heavy with a huge weak spot is a burden for its team unless the player knows what he does. Most players suck driving both tanks. The KV-4 MM value is much higher. This means a bad player driving a KV-4 is a bigger burden compared to a bad A-20 player.