Children of Dune
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I'm looking forward to seeing the new mini-series. Shoudl be as good as the last one.
And if the last one didn't fit Dune exactly right, well it came pretty close. Not to mention (with exception of the Sadukar) the costumes were cool and fit the society.
I don't understand a lot the purists objects any better than I do to those that hate the FotR movie. Yes, certian liberties were taken but it still was a damn good adaptation. It won't fit your vision exactly but it was damn good none the less. It got right a lot of the spirit of Dune.
And if the last one didn't fit Dune exactly right, well it came pretty close. Not to mention (with exception of the Sadukar) the costumes were cool and fit the society.
I don't understand a lot the purists objects any better than I do to those that hate the FotR movie. Yes, certian liberties were taken but it still was a damn good adaptation. It won't fit your vision exactly but it was damn good none the less. It got right a lot of the spirit of Dune.
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It could have been SO much more though. And I didn't hate it enough to NOT buy the DVD, or tape it when it aired originally and watch it over and over.Stormbringer wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing the new mini-series. Shoudl be as good as the last one.
And if the last one didn't fit Dune exactly right, well it came pretty close. Not to mention (with exception of the Sadukar) the costumes were cool and fit the society.
I don't understand a lot the purists objects any better than I do to those that hate the FotR movie. Yes, certian liberties were taken but it still was a damn good adaptation. It won't fit your vision exactly but it was damn good none the less. It got right a lot of the spirit of Dune.
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NO NO NO!!! Face Dancers that had absorbed millions of personas, thereby gaining liberty from Tleilaxu Masters were chasing the HM back to the Old Empire.Jadeite wrote:What exactly was the Scattering? Iv read all the books, and cant figure it out. And as for what the Honored Matres were running from in Chapterhouse, I think I know what it is.Finished Heretics, and I finally get what the f*cking Scattering was. My question, why the hell they care about the Old Empire in the first place...
**SPOILER WARNING**
In the newest Dune Prequel book, Omnius (the head of the AI), makes copies of himself and launches them into space, to explore and found new machine worlds. I think the the Matres found one of those worlds, and its after them now.
And Jadeite, the prequels burn nicely, it's the only thing they're good for. I checked Butlerian Jihad out from the library and could not read past page 59. IT SUCKED! For the author sanctioned version of prequel events go here!
http://futureprometheus.com/drmcnelly/
Check out the links, and pay particular attention to the timeline, and the NAMES of characters. Herbert said that if it didn't contradict his books, then it was official. Something he would never say about the "evil robots" in KJA's asswipeage!
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It could have done things better. I'll agree that some of the sets were damn obvious and the things did suffer somewhat from being compressed and aired on TV but it was still a damn good mini-series.Frank Hipper wrote:It could have been SO much more though. And I didn't hate it enough to NOT buy the DVD, or tape it when it aired originally and watch it over and over.
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And expose yourself to the mind-boggling boredom of the series? No thank you. I think I'd rather read Robert Jordan. At least it's more lively than Dune.Frank Hipper wrote:*grumblegrumbleit'sgonnasuckgrumbleworsethanB&Bgrumble*
Judging Dune by the mini-series is like juding ST by Enterprise, only worse. Read the books!! Now!
Have a very nice day.
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Some thing in the miniseries could be done better...but overall I found it palatable, and Children looks to be a far superior work...seriously.
The few previews seem to hint at a greater delving into the books.
The few previews seem to hint at a greater delving into the books.
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
The entire Dune franchise, while amazing works of sci-fi, are terribly Tv or movie friendly. Its far to introspective and political with long sequences where nothing is explained , only hinted at. The politics of the Empire are so Byzantine as to make the US gov look like a bunch of pikers. Add into that a feudal, vendetta ridden, society, still scarred by the horrors of the Butlerian, Jihad, a massive secret breeding program to produce 'God' in a man, and a dependency on a rare narcotic found only on a planet full of neo-Jews(Zensunni Wanderers my ass) to hold the whole thing together, and shit I just explained the books and I'm fucking lost.....
The Lynch movie - Good try, especially the 4hour extended edition, with the ten min intoduction added to 'set up the universe', and all of the scenes that were edited for time when it was initialy released. Captured the look of the Dune-verse very well, although the Sardaukar in hefty bags were terribly stupid.....along with the Harkonnen heart-plug, cat/mouse antidote dispenser, massive WTF?! factor.......
Sci-Fi miniseries - Another very good stab, far more watachable than the original release Dune movie, but still lacking in several areas. Pros - Got the Fremen and the stillsuit right! Worms looked badassed, not the giant phallus things inthe Lynch movie. I liked the casting, especially William Hurt as Duke Leto, he worked better than Jurgen Prochnow for some reason.
Cons - To man liberties with the story at times, Irulan fucking Feyd Rautha, riiiight......the total emasculation of Hasimir Fenring's character, who was pivotal to the entire story and a badass to boot, and the deletion of Margot, his Bene Gessirit wife who is also KEY to everything!! Again, dumbassed uniforms for the Sardaukar, the poofy hats just ruined it for me.
Hoping that Children of Dune is better, the success of Dune should have helped pump a few more Euros into the production and hopefully were well spent to improve the film.
The Lynch movie - Good try, especially the 4hour extended edition, with the ten min intoduction added to 'set up the universe', and all of the scenes that were edited for time when it was initialy released. Captured the look of the Dune-verse very well, although the Sardaukar in hefty bags were terribly stupid.....along with the Harkonnen heart-plug, cat/mouse antidote dispenser, massive WTF?! factor.......
Sci-Fi miniseries - Another very good stab, far more watachable than the original release Dune movie, but still lacking in several areas. Pros - Got the Fremen and the stillsuit right! Worms looked badassed, not the giant phallus things inthe Lynch movie. I liked the casting, especially William Hurt as Duke Leto, he worked better than Jurgen Prochnow for some reason.
Cons - To man liberties with the story at times, Irulan fucking Feyd Rautha, riiiight......the total emasculation of Hasimir Fenring's character, who was pivotal to the entire story and a badass to boot, and the deletion of Margot, his Bene Gessirit wife who is also KEY to everything!! Again, dumbassed uniforms for the Sardaukar, the poofy hats just ruined it for me.
Hoping that Children of Dune is better, the success of Dune should have helped pump a few more Euros into the production and hopefully were well spent to improve the film.
BotM
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Some damn good points, maybe I should re watch that original as someone else did. Either way, the mini series kicked ass. Now, I'm sure if I had read the books, and it was glaringly different then I'd be pissed. But if it's like The Two Towers were the book and movie are different but both have that great story and epic appeal I wouldn't be pissed.
Case in point, Spiderman. When J. Cameron was boasting about how he would write and direct Spiderman he mentioned organic shooters. WTF. Spiderman had plenty of times in the books and cartoons were he'd be in mid flight or battling someone and run out of fluid. However, I think the organic shooters freed them up for more of a story and action. Not only that, but no Gwen Stacy. Let's face it, you can read history, and the back issues, but Gwen Stacy, she's just a name that gets mentioned. I'm very used to Mary Jane Watson. I always found the Goblin suit to be bad as fuck, but for real purposes, the mechanical suit fits the bill. Okay, that's enough of Spiderman, if you guys want to go deeper into it, then we'll make a new thread.
Something I've seen floating around are the Dune books. I know full well KJA's foul hand has penned some of these novels. So what I want to know, is which books to read? Please, if someone could tell me, I need new material with the EU winding down for a time.
Case in point, Spiderman. When J. Cameron was boasting about how he would write and direct Spiderman he mentioned organic shooters. WTF. Spiderman had plenty of times in the books and cartoons were he'd be in mid flight or battling someone and run out of fluid. However, I think the organic shooters freed them up for more of a story and action. Not only that, but no Gwen Stacy. Let's face it, you can read history, and the back issues, but Gwen Stacy, she's just a name that gets mentioned. I'm very used to Mary Jane Watson. I always found the Goblin suit to be bad as fuck, but for real purposes, the mechanical suit fits the bill. Okay, that's enough of Spiderman, if you guys want to go deeper into it, then we'll make a new thread.
Something I've seen floating around are the Dune books. I know full well KJA's foul hand has penned some of these novels. So what I want to know, is which books to read? Please, if someone could tell me, I need new material with the EU winding down for a time.
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Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
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Oddball point but Peter David created organic shooter as well as mini feeler for Spiderman 2099 before James Cameron.DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Case in point, Spiderman. When J. Cameron was boasting about how he would write and direct Spiderman he mentioned organic shooters. WTF. Spiderman had plenty of times in the books and cartoons were he'd be in mid flight or battling someone and run out of fluid. However, I think the organic shooters freed them up for more of a story and action. Not only that, but no Gwen Stacy. Let's face it, you can read history, and the back issues, but Gwen Stacy, she's just a name that gets mentioned. I'm very used to Mary Jane Watson. I always found the Goblin suit to be bad as fuck, but for real purposes, the mechanical suit fits the bill. Okay, that's enough of Spiderman, if you guys want to go deeper into it, then we'll make a new thread.
Also the no Gwen Stacy is a good thing given Peter just leaped through High school to professional life in a leap with no college and little intervening(that and Stacy requires a couple other characters to be introduced to be somewhat close in content)
And the Goblin suit I agree worked well because it at least fit what he was.
Dune and such are Herbert...while ALL the prequels are of KJA.Something I've seen floating around are the Dune books. I know full well KJA's foul hand has penned some of these novels. So what I want to know, is which books to read? Please, if someone could tell me, I need new material with the EU winding down for a time.
Personally take what you can from Dune onward...because the prequels fuck shit up beyond words and are crap to book.
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
As for the KJA/ Brian Herbert books, if you love Dune fanatically, do NOT read them, they are tripe served up as an appitizer to filet mignon. As books set in the Dune Universe, but not really canon, much like the EU in SW, then read on, but apply nothing in them to the actual Herbert books.
They manage to make a muck of it , turning complex intrigue and political manuvering, into a long series of action and adventure set pieces that have more in common with Star Wars than the Dune setting of Herberts divising.
They manage to make a muck of it , turning complex intrigue and political manuvering, into a long series of action and adventure set pieces that have more in common with Star Wars than the Dune setting of Herberts divising.
BotM
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First off, I tried to stay away from any of the 2099 books. I always figured Spiderman had feelers to an extent. It would explain why he can grasp through his costume and be able to let go when he feels like it. Still, I like both of those ideas. I think there was only a couple of things I didn't like about the movie. I remember some time before it came out I was talking with the accountant at work. She was asking me about it, and I said 'Somebody named Toby Mcquire is Spiderman'. She was like, 'That's a horriable choice. He's such a dork in all of his films.'. "Dork' I say, 'Perfect'. He was Peter Parker, 'The Amazing Spiderman!'
I figured with KJA on as the author it would be best to stay away from those books. I have never read the Young Jedi series because of it, and his total lack of respect for anything is the most underlying example of why I have a large dislike to the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
I figured with KJA on as the author it would be best to stay away from those books. I have never read the Young Jedi series because of it, and his total lack of respect for anything is the most underlying example of why I have a large dislike to the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
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Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
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Actually the comic explaination for him being able to web crawl....straight from the mouth of Stan Lee...was originally
Static Electricity
Seriously.
As for KJA...he ruined a lot of things, and honestly is something I am amazed get around so much and has some uncanny ability to fuck shit up.
Static Electricity
Seriously.
As for KJA...he ruined a lot of things, and honestly is something I am amazed get around so much and has some uncanny ability to fuck shit up.
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
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Leave him in the drier for an hour and he's ready to go.
I can't believe KJA is allowed to write anything. He sucks, everyone fucking knows it. He totally fucked up the Chronology. Granted it should not have appeared until AFTER Episode III, much like the updated characters book. Holy Mother of Fuck. These people that make such decisions are the only reason he's still around.
p.s. I have both books, but only because they are necessary to cover a lot of shit, and it's doubtful they will make another one for some damn time.
I can't believe KJA is allowed to write anything. He sucks, everyone fucking knows it. He totally fucked up the Chronology. Granted it should not have appeared until AFTER Episode III, much like the updated characters book. Holy Mother of Fuck. These people that make such decisions are the only reason he's still around.
p.s. I have both books, but only because they are necessary to cover a lot of shit, and it's doubtful they will make another one for some damn time.
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
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Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
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Like others said, Dune and onward are by Herbert. specifically they areDG_Cal_Wright wrote:Something I've seen floating around are the Dune books. I know full well KJA's foul hand has penned some of these novels. So what I want to know, is which books to read? Please, if someone could tell me, I need new material with the EU winding down for a time.
Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune
God Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune
Chapterhouse: Dune
Rumor has is that KJA was going to write a "sequel" based on what Frank Herbert left behind. Now that's a disaster I don't want happen
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Fear not, Snipers are already in position.
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
The Dark Guard Fleet
Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
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After Children of Dune I found that the books got increasingly more obtuse. Hell, my mother, who's read and watched a fuckload more sci-fi than me, couldn't make it through the first few chapters because it was so dense.
But we WILL be watching the new miniseries. Just to see how it is.
But we WILL be watching the new miniseries. Just to see how it is.
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So due to KJA, the Matres are running from a machine civilization? What, the bloody fucking Borg?
As for growing more obscure as time went on... I could see how they would be less accessible on a first reading, certainly. Id say Dune is still by far the best of the series... but I enjoyed all of them (That is to say of Frank's work, Dune through Chapterhouse).
Scattering-After Leto II dies, his empire falls apart into violence and catastrophe, and as a minor side-note, the ridgid controls on space travel go, too. This was all part of the plan. The Scattering involves a (relatively) sudden and massive outgrowth of humanity, breaking it free of its core world (the 'million worlds' of the Old Empire) into relative infinty. That was the 'Golden Path' that starts being discussed as early as Children of Dune... to force stability and control on humanity for so long, so as to build a massive, repressed need. Paul was unwilling to undergo the changes necessary to extend his lifespan, and thus the source of his conflict with his son in Children.
Side note... their not entirely wrong to join them, IMHO. Dune is its own story. Messiah and Children are the lead-in to God Emperor. Heretics opens up for Chapterhouse, which you can either see as a fitting conclusion, or (based on things Herbert had going on late in the novel) the springboard for something else, something completely penulitmate.
In truth, I think the former more likely.. if youve read any of his other stuff, Herbert was always given to glancing just past the edges of very, very large forces moving semi-offscreen. RE: Godmakers, Green Brain.
As for growing more obscure as time went on... I could see how they would be less accessible on a first reading, certainly. Id say Dune is still by far the best of the series... but I enjoyed all of them (That is to say of Frank's work, Dune through Chapterhouse).
Scattering-After Leto II dies, his empire falls apart into violence and catastrophe, and as a minor side-note, the ridgid controls on space travel go, too. This was all part of the plan. The Scattering involves a (relatively) sudden and massive outgrowth of humanity, breaking it free of its core world (the 'million worlds' of the Old Empire) into relative infinty. That was the 'Golden Path' that starts being discussed as early as Children of Dune... to force stability and control on humanity for so long, so as to build a massive, repressed need. Paul was unwilling to undergo the changes necessary to extend his lifespan, and thus the source of his conflict with his son in Children.
Side note... their not entirely wrong to join them, IMHO. Dune is its own story. Messiah and Children are the lead-in to God Emperor. Heretics opens up for Chapterhouse, which you can either see as a fitting conclusion, or (based on things Herbert had going on late in the novel) the springboard for something else, something completely penulitmate.
In truth, I think the former more likely.. if youve read any of his other stuff, Herbert was always given to glancing just past the edges of very, very large forces moving semi-offscreen. RE: Godmakers, Green Brain.
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The latter books were great, I'm going through Chapterhouse right now. Heretics was one I couldn't put down at the end, but the destruction of ******* was kind of depressing, if you know what I mean.
This is just me surmising:
Anyhow, when Leto II died, melange production bombed. His storehouse wasn't found until Heretics, and the Bene Gesserit and Spacing Guild almost died during these times. Interstellar trade dropped, and the Famine Times set in. When trade reopened, people took Ixian No-Ships and Navigation Machines, and exploded outwards looking for new resources and homes (Kind of like in Asimov.) They found something out there that scared the crap out of them, and now they're coming back, hoping to take over the Old Empire.
This is just me surmising:
Anyhow, when Leto II died, melange production bombed. His storehouse wasn't found until Heretics, and the Bene Gesserit and Spacing Guild almost died during these times. Interstellar trade dropped, and the Famine Times set in. When trade reopened, people took Ixian No-Ships and Navigation Machines, and exploded outwards looking for new resources and homes (Kind of like in Asimov.) They found something out there that scared the crap out of them, and now they're coming back, hoping to take over the Old Empire.
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the Original 6 Dune books are the best 6 books i ever read in my life. Such an epic story woth great battles and a brilliant inovative plot. Herbert was a genius but unfortunately he must be spining in his grave due to what his asshole son and Kevin Jack-Ass have done to his great works. I actually read the preaquals and decided i want to sue Herbert Junior. Most of the EU in Dune has been piss poor. The Lynch movie was great on its own, the cast was superb and the costume design was top notch, I thought the sardukar uniforms were very cleaver considering they where suposed to be Harkonnen troops. The Dune Mini Series made me wince. The basic story line was flawed. What the fuck happened to Countess Fenring? And as for the cast, don't get me started. Only Chani looked the part.
RIP Yosemite Bear
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Hell, the plot outline of them could have been pretty good. It was based on Frank Herbert's own notes. The problem was Kevin Jerk-off Anderson. I'm convinced he's really being ghost written by a fifth grader.Herbert was a genius but unfortunately he must be spining in his grave due to what his asshole son and Kevin Jack-Ass have done to his great works. I actually read the preaquals and decided i want to sue Herbert Junior. Most of the EU in Dune has been piss poor.
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If only they had published the notes, maybe with a little commentary here and there.Stormbringer wrote:Hell, the plot outline of them could have been pretty good. It was based on Frank Herbert's own notes. The problem was Kevin Jerk-off Anderson. I'm convinced he's really being ghost written by a fifth grader.Herbert was a genius but unfortunately he must be spining in his grave due to what his asshole son and Kevin Jack-Ass have done to his great works. I actually read the preaquals and decided i want to sue Herbert Junior. Most of the EU in Dune has been piss poor.
I will provide someone with my left testicle if they can provide proof that the following were in Herbert's notes:
That RM Mohaim is Jessica's mother.
That Paul was born in the palace on Kaitain.
That LetoI had been married previous to his involvement with Jessica.
That Vladimir Harkonnen's obesity can be attributed to a BG disease.
That Ix is ruled by a Great House.
That Salusa Secundus was devastated by nuclear weapons.
That a Prince Rhombur and his BG bride produced offspring by fucking ARTIFICIAL INSEMENATION!!!
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