"whip out the AK-47 and blast away for funsies"

[TheFeniX]

Still, changes to meet the Legislature's Oct. 1 deadline haven't produced anarchy in Central Florida. Orlando, for example, repealed its ordinance that prohibits discharging a weapon in city limits.
Police Chief Paul Rooney said he sat through interminable meetings about how to deal with the spectre of gun-toting fishermen on Lake Underhill.
"I thought, 'Oh, what a mess. What a mess this is going to be. It's going to get out of control,'" Rooney said.
And then it didn't. College Park residents didn't open their front doors and fire in celebration.

So the average gun owner doesn't act like an asshole and this is still some kind of major issue. This is from the article mind you where the Author basically wants you to freak the fuck out about what might happen, even though florida "gun nuts" have had 8 months to go batshit..... and haven't.

Why not is a matter of opinion.

Perhaps they don't know that they now can dispatch the occasional rattlesnake in the backyard themselves. But Rooney said that those most interested in guns are well aware of the new rules. And, he said, they also know that state law makes it a misdemeanor to fire across roads, rights-of-way and "over any occupied premises."

Holy shit! Responsible gun owners! B-b-b-b-but, AK-47! I mean, it's functionally no different than the .223 rifle you can grab at Academy for $200 (With a scope, woohoo!), but turrests use them! Turrests LOVE the AK. AKs ARE THOSE SCARY GUNS FROM THE MOVIES! PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

For now, folks in isolated pockets who just want to live quietly will have to put up with crackpots who don't care about their neighbors, and law enforcement can't help.

Oh no! People outside city limits can fire guns on their property. This is terrible because it's exactly what you could do before Florida went "pyscho."

I'd like to point out, I don't agree with a lot of what Florida's been selling lately. But this article seems like the author is mad Florida gun owners could go nuts if they wanted to, and they haven't. So, we've got some asshole out in the sticks pissing off his neighbor (who could easily be a mile or two away from danger, but still being harassed) being used to start off this soapbox rant. Also, they managed to sneak in a Travor Martin reference. Total not baiting emotional responses. Totally.

Anyway, the kind of person who would blast guns all day/night because he's a gigantic asshole probably owns a bunch of land of in the middle of fucking nowhere. Go figure.

the shotgun would be quieter. shotguns have rather quiet thumps, even low caliber rifles have a crack from the supersonic bullets that doesn't fade into the background noise as easily.

Even Heavy Dove out of an 18" barrel can break 1100 FPS, and those aren't buckshot or slugs (which are not fun to shoot). Shotguns may not have the report of a .38-55 or 7.62, but they're loud enough.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Eh not really. Patrol handles these situations just fine.

Whatever you get paid, it isn't anywhere near enough. I honestly thought most police departments had a policy of never responding to a 911 call with less firepower than the suspects.

Most officers in patrol have a .223 rifle, usually AR-15, and/or a shotgun. Those of us that have extra money buy level III body armor. I bought my rifle, at the time the department didn't have one available, and level III body armor.

And we rarely ever know what kind of a firepower a suspect has. That's why we do the things we do. To clarify SWAT would be called in if a person was shooting into the air and then refused to cooperate with patrol and moved to a position of advantage like inside his home or a wide open field.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The problem with policing in the US is, yeah, you could be responding to a routine Domestic Violence call and the guy is actually a crazy with a bunker and a fully automatic M60 he looted out of an arms depot in the early 1980s set up to cover the only road approaching it from 500 yards away. This is every officer's nightmare in rural areas, and sometimes it just can't be avoided.

[Wing Commander MAD]

On Dec. 16, a volley of shotgun blasts sent five Lake County neighbors to the phones to simultaneously dial 911.

When Eustis police confronted duck hunters in a boat, one of them turned out to be an officer of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Along with his shotgun, he was toting a copy of House Bill 45, which detailed his right to shoot.

"It is OK to hunt ducks on a lake surrounded by residential homes, but it is against the law for these same residents to use fireworks?" said Eustis Chief Fred Cobb. "If the Legislature is concerned about public safety, I don't understand their logic."

Anyone happen to know what the odds of errant birdshot being lethal are? That aside, this struck me as one of the most absurd things in the article upon skimming it. I have to wander about the competance of this police chief if what he said isn't being taken out of context. I'm struggling to come up with any scenarios where hunters after birds are going to be more likely to be dangerous than amateurs with explosives/incendiary devices.

[General Zod]

On Dec. 16, a volley of shotgun blasts sent five Lake County neighbors to the phones to simultaneously dial 911.

When Eustis police confronted duck hunters in a boat, one of them turned out to be an officer of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Along with his shotgun, he was toting a copy of House Bill 45, which detailed his right to shoot.

"It is OK to hunt ducks on a lake surrounded by residential homes, but it is against the law for these same residents to use fireworks?" said Eustis Chief Fred Cobb. "If the Legislature is concerned about public safety, I don't understand their logic."

Anyone happen to know what the odds of errant birdshot being lethal are? That aside, this struck me as one of the most absurd things in the article upon skimming it. I have to wander about the competance of this police chief if what he said isn't being taken out of context. I'm struggling to come up with any scenarios where hunters after birds are going to be more likely to be dangerous than amateurs with explosives/incendiary devices.

I guess it depends on whether one of those hunters is Dick Cheney or not.

[Rogue 9]

On Dec. 16, a volley of shotgun blasts sent five Lake County neighbors to the phones to simultaneously dial 911.

When Eustis police confronted duck hunters in a boat, one of them turned out to be an officer of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Along with his shotgun, he was toting a copy of House Bill 45, which detailed his right to shoot.

"It is OK to hunt ducks on a lake surrounded by residential homes, but it is against the law for these same residents to use fireworks?" said Eustis Chief Fred Cobb. "If the Legislature is concerned about public safety, I don't understand their logic."

Anyone happen to know what the odds of errant birdshot being lethal are? That aside, this struck me as one of the most absurd things in the article upon skimming it. I have to wander about the competance of this police chief if what he said isn't being taken out of context. I'm struggling to come up with any scenarios where hunters after birds are going to be more likely to be dangerous than amateurs with explosives/incendiary devices.

Several years (over a decade now, actually) back, some jackass on a boat was drunk and randomly firing a shotgun on Deam Lake in Indiana and killed a woman nearly a mile away. Had her car windows been up she'd have been fine (the shot had lost a lot of velocity by the time it got to her, and probably wouldn't have penetrated), but she had them down and got shot in the head. The law doesn't merely permit the careful hunting of birds; it permits discharging firearms wherever and whenever you damn well please, which in the hands of idiots is far more dangerous than fireworks.

[Wing Commander MAD]

Well then, it's a good thing I wasn't talking about the law in question which is stupid, rather the specific example given by the author. It is an outright terrible example if you’re trying to convince the reader that the law is bad. Mind you the piece appears to be more about the nuisance of gunshots, rather than the safety risks involved. Something like your example would be much more convincing from a safety standpoint, as it would involve actual harm having occurred from irresponsible (yet presumably legal in Florida) use of a firearm. If the message you are trying to get across is that irresponsible use of a firearm is dangerous, and let’s be clear that discharging a firearm "wherever and whenever you damn well please" is irresponsible no matter how legal it may be, it would help to use an example that actually supports your premise. If your message is that people being allowed to discharge a weapon in a “formerly quite neighborhood” is rude and an annoyance to others, then you should use such an example. The anecdote is in fact relevant to that message up until the quote, as it quite nicely displays people being distressed by actions perfectly legal under said law. The quote from the police chief however is about safety, and has nothing whatsoever to do with disrupting a nice quite neighborhood with noisy firearms. The quote is completely unneeded. The fact that the author even included it at all strikes me as simply being a poorly attempted appeal to authority tacked on to an appeal to emotion. I still question the police chief's reasoning, but neither the article, the incident that he is talking about, nor my issues with his logic are about the danger posed by people irresponsibly using firearms as permitted by the law under discussion when compared to the use of fireworks by amateurs. Honestly, the fact that the potential dangers of people discharging weapons irresponsibly and potentially endangering others seems to be taking a backseat to the issue of noise and disturbing the peace is rather worrying in my mind.

[Beowulf]

Shotgun pellets don't have much range capability. At a low elevation, shot will hit the ground about 300 yards away, max.

[Sea Skimmer]

The US has in the range of 75 million gun owners, and half of all families have at least one weapon in the house, and people in the US fire the better part of a billion rounds per year. Meanwhile you have around three hundred people per year killed or wounded by stray bullets, and the considerable majority are the result of violent crime, generally in the intercity. The threat from hunting and other legitimate firing is very low, trivial compared to say US federal gov estimates that around 25% of all traffic accidents involve cell phone use, killing several thousands. Florida may have some dumb laws, but noise seems like the main problem here.

[Wing Commander MAD]

Good point Sea Skimmer; I wonder though, what are the odds of this being more NIMBYism than an actual problem? This is Florida after all, seemingly the origin of every bad story that I've ever seen or heard involving a homeowners association.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The US has in the range of 75 million gun owners, and half of all families have at least one weapon in the house, and people in the US fire the better part of a billion rounds per year. Meanwhile you have around three hundred people per year killed or wounded by stray bullets, and the considerable majority are the result of violent crime, generally in the intercity. The threat from hunting and other legitimate firing is very low, trivial compared to say US federal gov estimates that around 25% of all traffic accidents involve cell phone use, killing several thousands. Florida may have some dumb laws, but noise seems like the main problem here.

Uh, maybe I am misunderstanding your point here, but the reason that such a relatively small number of people are killed/wounded by stray bullets is because of people being smart enough not to fire off their weapons in areas where this could be an issue and laws in place to punish people reckless/stupid enough to do so. So I don't know why those stats should be called up to say that this Florida law is not an issue at all. It's like saying since there aren't that many fatal mining accidents, we shouldn't worry about regulating mines.

[Aaron MkII]

Good point Sea Skimmer; I wonder though, what are the odds of this being more NIMBYism than an actual problem? This is Florida after all, seemingly the origin of every bad story that I've ever seen or heard involving a homeowners association.

Shooting ranges in Canada regularly upset neighbour's, granted that's mostly idiots that move nearby and then start hitching. In some cases ranges that have been around for 100 years end up going broke and shutting down due to constant legal battles or bs noise testing.

We can't do night shoots because the club gave up the right as part of an agreement with the town. Idiots are everywhere.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Good point Sea Skimmer; I wonder though, what are the odds of this being more NIMBYism than an actual problem? This is Florida after all, seemingly the origin of every bad story that I've ever seen or heard involving a homeowners association.

Shooting ranges in Canada regularly upset neighbour's, granted that's mostly idiots that move nearby and then start hitching. In some cases ranges that have been around for 100 years end up going broke and shutting down due to constant legal battles or bs noise testing.

We can't do night shoots because the club gave up the right as part of an agreement with the town. Idiots are everywhere.

I was going to mention this earlier and ask what do we do in cases like this? I remember we had a case like this around here a couple years ago, in addition I remember that a summer camp for poor families' children had to be closed down too because the camp program was paid for using some of the profit from membership dues and gun and lane rentals at the firing range.

[Enigma]

The only way I can think the gun ranges can get around is when they decide to set up shop is to buy up a lot of land around them so no one can build a house and then complain about the gun range.

[Alyeska]

My local range is perfectly located. Sandwhiched between railroad tracks and a mountain. They will ever have a neighbor problem.

[Irbis]

I remember we had a case like this around here a couple years ago, in addition I remember that a summer camp for poor families' children had to be closed down too because the camp program was paid for using some of the profit from membership dues and gun and lane rentals at the firing range.

And this is supposed to prove what exactly?

"I remember that a summer camp for poor families' children had to be closed down too because the camp program was paid for using some of the profit from local Mafia Don nobly giving away 10% of his profits from cocaine."

Gee, maybe I'd care to cry a single tear had these guys paid that camp program personally, but as it is, it was just a fig leaf for noisy business. Maybe they can donate what they save on ammunition to kids now?

The US has in the range of 75 million gun owners, and half of all families have at least one weapon in the house, and people in the US fire the better part of a billion rounds per year. Meanwhile you have around three hundred people per year killed or wounded by stray bullets, and the considerable majority are the result of violent crime, generally in the intercity. The threat from hunting and other legitimate firing is very low, trivial compared to say US federal gov estimates that around 25% of all traffic accidents involve cell phone use, killing several thousands. Florida may have some dumb laws, but noise seems like the main problem here.

"Stray". Yeah, right. What about non-stray bullets? According to this, first 10 months of 2011 saw 166 police officers shot in a country that spends hundreds of millions of dollars on bulletproof vests, arms training, rifles and associated gear needed to deal with the situation. Meanwhile, in Japan, country with 40% of US population, number of policemen shot is 0,006% of US total (and that in a years when policeman is shot), and 'gun crimes' barely show in police statistics despite the fact in Japan things as broad as possessing an airgun or bullet without permit are 'gun crime'.

Just listen to yourself. 'Around three hundred people' being an acceptable cost? For what? If we take standard cost of 'producing' (education, feeding, housing) typical adult American, that is, 5 mln $, that comes to 1.5 billion dollars lost every year in accidents (never mind intentional kills) so that gun wankers could justify their right to Arm Bears, despite them not being well regulated militia or anything. Yeah, no, I like guns, admire the though that went into crafting them, but I'll sooner give my right to have one than admit throwing away money to armour police like Imperial Stormtroopers is sensible idea in any way. Even without damage to US reputation caused by the fact the black market in every country tied to USA is flooded by American guns, spending the money on evil commie things like education or healthcare would be better than throwing it into that black hole.

Oh, and please, stop with the old and tired 'but cars kill more!'. There is a lot more cars than guns, in a lot more frequent usage, and they are actually useful to society unlike guns. Had every gun in the world disappeared tomorrow, no one would have noticed. Every car? Instant national collapse. Though, I'll agree, US gas guzzling cars suck in the same way as US gun laws, in both cases adopting European/Japanese model would save countless human lives

[Ritterin Sophia]

And this is supposed to prove what exactly?

It demonstrates that when gun owners try to have a place where they can shoot without disturbing their neighbors other people move in next to that place knowing there's a gun range and then cry about noise violations.

"I remember that a summer camp for poor families' children had to be closed down too because the camp program was paid for using some of the profit from local Mafia Don nobly giving away 10% of his profits from cocaine."

Well first of all Mr. Self Righteousness, the fact that you thank a gun range's owner using profits to pay for a children's summer camp is the same as an organized crime organization doing the same it quite telling. Second of all, you assume that selling drugs is de facto wrong.

Gee, maybe I'd care to cry a single tear had these guys paid that camp program personally, but as it is, it was just a fig leaf for noisy business. Maybe they can donate what they save on ammunition to kids now?

They did, though. The program was run by the range owner's wife and the members made private donations in addition to what was used from their membership dues. Good job making yourself look like a fanatic twat. Don't worry, I'm sure throwing a tantrum over guns will make people more amenable to your logic.

[Simon_Jester]

"Stray". Yeah, right. What about non-stray bullets?

Non-stray bullets are irrelevant to the Florida law. If you want the thread to be a general platform for huffing and puffing and grandstanding about gun control fine, but there was a specific point here:

Should it be illegal to shoot a firearm outside ranges or wilderness areas?

According to this, first 10 months of 2011 saw 166 police officers shot in a country that spends hundreds of millions of dollars on bulletproof vests, arms training, rifles and associated gear needed to deal with the situation. Meanwhile, in Japan, country with 40% of US population, number of policemen shot is 0,006% of US total (and that in a years when policeman is shot), and 'gun crimes' barely show in police statistics despite the fact in Japan things as broad as possessing an airgun or bullet without permit are 'gun crime'.

What are gun crime statistics and the rate of police shootings in places like Finland and Switzerland?

Oh, and please, stop with the old and tired 'but cars kill more!'. There is a lot more cars than guns, in a lot more frequent usage, and they are actually useful to society unlike guns. Had every gun in the world disappeared tomorrow, no one would have noticed. Every car?

Oh for crying out loud, this is just ridiculous.

I can think of at least half a dozen countries where you would notice the results very fast if all the guns disappeared, because of what would happen when a mob with rocks and spears suddenly became as dangerous as an army.

I get that it's rhetoric, but it's also so poorly thought out that it makes you look like a whining moron.

Instant national collapse. Though, I'll agree, US gas guzzling cars suck in the same way as US gun laws, in both cases adopting European/Japanese model would save countless human lives

Citation needed.

[Aaron MkII]

Good point Sea Skimmer; I wonder though, what are the odds of this being more NIMBYism than an actual problem? This is Florida after all, seemingly the origin of every bad story that I've ever seen or heard involving a homeowners association.

Shooting ranges in Canada regularly upset neighbour's, granted that's mostly idiots that move nearby and then start hitching. In some cases ranges that have been around for 100 years end up going broke and shutting down due to constant legal battles or bs noise testing.

We can't do night shoots because the club gave up the right as part of an agreement with the town. Idiots are everywhere.

I was going to mention this earlier and ask what do we do in cases like this? I remember we had a case like this around here a couple years ago, in addition I remember that a summer camp for poor families' children had to be closed down too because the camp program was paid for using some of the profit from membership dues and gun and lane rentals at the firing range.

Push for legalising supressors.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Push for legalising supressors.

But suppressors are for those assault weapons!

[Aaron MkII]

Push for legalising supressors.

But suppressors are for those assault weapons!

Good sir, that is a vile lie. Don't believe the Coalition for Gun Control's propaganda! Wendy Cukier is a kook!

[Ritterin Sophia]

Good sir, that is a vile lie. Don't believe the Coalition for Gun Control's propaganda! Wendy Cukier is a kook!

Are you trying to tell me that assault rifles weren't made for trench warfare in WWI and are in fact not intended to be sprayed from the hip!? Good sir you owe me a new monocle!

[Sea Skimmer]

"Stray". Yeah, right. What about non-stray bullets?

Would be completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, which was Florida removing restrictions on firing on private property. You want to talk about something else go start your own thread.

Oh, and please, stop with the old and tired 'but cars kill more!'. There is a lot more cars than guns, in a lot more frequent usage, and they are actually useful to society unlike guns. Had every gun in the world disappeared tomorrow, no one would have noticed. Every car? Instant national collapse. Though, I'll agree, US gas guzzling cars suck in the same way as US gun laws, in both cases adopting European/Japanese model would save countless human lives

The number of cars in the US is about 250 million, not at all radically different from the number of firearms. And yeah, people would damn well notice every gun disappearing in the entire world. Thank you for playing the idiot game though, you win.

[TheFeniX]

The only way I can think the gun ranges can get around is when they decide to set up shop is to buy up a lot of land around them so no one can build a house and then complain about the gun range.

The ASC on the west side of Houston is in the "park area" which is located in the flood water system. The entire range floods anytime we get any appreciable amount of rain (the range shop is built up high). There's another range actually in (what I consider) downtown Houston. It has multiple feet thick steel and concrete walls. It also has extremely poor ventilation (don't blow your nose after shooting there unless you want black hands). I think what saves the one in downtown is that you can't even really tell it's a range from the outside, at least the last time I went.

From talking to a coworker who just moved back from San Antonio, a popular range that had been around for something like 40 years was recently shut down because they built a golf course and the fat fucks complained about the noise.

"Stray". Yeah, right. What about non-stray bullets?

I don't know what I'm laughing harder at. The fact that you're a fool who doesn't have the barest understanding of where violent crime comes from or that you (like many gun control advocates I've seen) immediately compare legal firearm owners to violent felons. I also like how Japan has low gun crime but still manages to be upwards of 4th of total crimes committed in the world. It's like the one asshole in a thread years back who claimed the gun ban was great for Australia because it cut the gun suicide rate down by half (which was true). It wasn't mentioned however that the total suicide rate (mostly hangings) managed to increase over the next 3-4 years. I guess if it doesn't involve guns, it's ok in their book.

Oh, and please, stop with the old and tired 'but cars kill more!'. There is a lot more cars than guns, in a lot more frequent usage, and they are actually useful to society unlike guns.

You're 30 times more likely to die from accidental drowning than getting hit by a stray bullet. Guess it's time to shut down the YMCA. But seriously, "a lot more cars than guns" is worth a laugh. Get off your fucking soapbox and do some research.