Israel demolishes Palestinian villiages

[Darth Yan]

http://news.yahoo.com/palestinian-villa ... 34826.html

SUSIYA, West Bank (AP) — Palestinians in this hamlet have clung to their arid acres for decades, living without proper electricity or water while Israel provides both to Jewish settlers on nearby hills. But the end now seems near for Susiya: Demolition orders distributed last week by the Israelis aim to destroy virtually the entire village.
Before it does, Israel could encounter an international complication: Several European countries, with traditional Israel ally Germany in the lead, have funded solar panels, wind turbines and wells to make life in area villages more bearable. A diplomatic incident may loom.
"They are turning us into refugees on our own land," said resident Mohammed Nawaja, principal of a 35-student elementary school that consists of four tents slated for removal.
Susiya is one of more than a dozen "unrecognized" Palestinian herding communities in the southern West Bank, a desert-like area close to the Green Line, Israel's pre-1967 war frontier with the West Bank, when it was ruled by Jordan. Its 160-odd residents live in shacks, caves and tents with cement-reinforced walls.
Israeli authorities say the structures are unlicensed. Residents and their supporters say Israel refuses to grant permits as part of a plan to clear the area for future territorial claims — a charge Israel denies.
Activists say Israeli authorities have issued demolition orders in most of the hamlets over the years, but Susiya faces the most immediate risk of wholesale razing.
At the heart of the matter is the struggle over the 62 percent of the West Bank that remains under full Israeli control — known as Area C. This area is home to more than 300,000 Jewish settlers, more than double the number of Palestinians living there. More than 90 percent of the West Bank's Palestinians live in the parts of territory adding up to 38 percent of the land, administered by the Palestinian Authority.
The division results from the 1990s autonomy agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. They were meant to be temporary and lead to a final deal on drawing the borders of a Palestinian state more than a decade ago. Negotiations repeatedly broke down, while the patchwork of jurisdictions in the West Bank remained.
Critics say Israel has blocked virtually all Palestinian development in Area C, while expanding the Jewish settlements there. Only 5 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in Area C have been granted in recent years, said Alon Cohen-Lifshitz of the Israeli group Bimkom, which calls for fair planning practices.
Planning restrictions and demolition orders are part of a wider Israeli land grab, said Michael Sfard, an attorney for Israeli activists who have installed solar panels and wind turbines with German funding in 18 small communities in the southern West Bank.
"The federal government and its EU partners are watching the situation ... very carefully," said a German Foreign Ministry spokesman Wednesday, on customary condition of anonymity. "They are calling for safeguarding the German and international projects ... and are in close contact with the Israeli authorities."
Israel's Civil Administration, the branch of the military dealing with Palestinians in Area C, said it is working on more than a dozen master plans in the southern West Bank to regularize what it considers Palestinian squatters.
Maj. Guy Inbar, an Israeli spokesman, said some of the work is being held up because Palestinians are not cooperating. He said some of the Palestinians in the southern West Bank would be asked to move as part of such plans, but he declined to give details.
Qamar Assad, an attorney for Susiya, said the villagers have not been offered an alternate site.
Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said Israel is ready to tackle the core issue of drawing the borders of a Palestinian state, which would also resolve the problems of Susiya and the entire settlement issue.
The Palestinians, who want a state in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem — territories Israel captured in the 1967 war — refuse to resume talks until Israel freezes settlement construction on occupied lands.
Susiya's defenders say it's more vulnerable to displacement than some of the other villages in the area. The village is flanked by a Jewish settlement and the ruins of a centuries-old Jewish town of the same name.
Susiya residents lived in the area of the ruins until it was declared an archaeological site and they were forced to leave in the mid-1980s. Some left for other Palestinian communities, while others settled a few hundred yards away, on land Nawaja says is privately owned by him and his relatives.
Since Israel did not recognize the community, it was not hooked up to electricity or water grids, while the settlement of Susiya and several unauthorized Jewish outposts in the area receive such services, said Sfard.
In 2010, Israel's government designated the Susiya excavation area as a Jewish heritage site and promised funding to turn it into a major tourist attraction. Susiya residents say they've been barred from visiting the site, even though some were born there.
Among the finds are the remains of a synagogue with elaborate floor mosaics, and explanations offered to visitors include many links between the apparent practices of town residents and those described in Jewish scriptures.
Israeli archaeologist Yonathan Mizrahi, who was not involved in the dig, said excavations also yielded remnants of a mosque built atop the synagogue in later years, but that this is not mentioned to visitors. "There is a clear political agenda, to legitimize the settlement (of Susiya) as continuing the Jewish presence of the past," he said.
Last week, Civil Administration inspectors distributed demolition orders for several dozen structures in the village, including the school, a makeshift clinic, residential tents, animal shelters and German-funded solar panels, Assad said.
Some of the orders were initially issued in the 1990s but not implemented, while others are new.
Inbar said Israel is in touch with German officials, and one proposal is to take the solar panels to another area if Susiya residents agree to move there. The German Foreign Ministry official did not address the issue publicly.
The Israeli group that installed the panels, Comet-ME, said demolition orders or their precursors, stop-work orders, have been issued against nine of their 18 sites, including Susiya. The group is providing electricity to 1,300 Palestinians in the area.
Comet-ME said it had hoped to set up six more installations this year but will have to stop work until the legal problems are solved.
___
Associated Press writer David Rising contributed to this report from Berlin.

some of the quotes in the comments are also pretty revolting. Israel once again urinates on world opinion and shows that it doesn't give a rats ass about human life. How any one can justify thiscrap is beyond me

[bobalot]

Israel needs LEBENSRAUM.

The lesser peoples will have to move for the Arayan race chosen people.

[Ritterin Sophia]

עין וולק, עין רייך, עין הפיהרר

[fgalkin]

עין וולק, עין רייך, עין הפיהרר

And people still insist that they're not antisemites....

EDIT: To clarify, would you consider it appropriate to call Mugabe the n-word in a thread about Zimbabwe. Why or why not?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Ziggy Stardust]

עין וולק, עין רייך, עין הפיהרר

Just to clarify, is this "ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer"?

[Ritterin Sophia]

And people still insist that they're not antisemites....

Yes, because when a country acts like their former oppressors did to call them on it is discrimination against the entire race and not pointing out the comparison.

Jump off a cliff.
-General Schatten

Just to clarify, is this "ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer"?

Indeed.

[Aaron MkII]

*sigh* Israel acting like a bunch of assholes isn't really news anymore, they been doing it since 48. But could someone point out how this is anti-semetism for those of us with just Grade 12?

[Purple]

If you really want to know why no one calls them out on all this it's simple. In fact it is so simple that you can simplify it down to a 3 steps program.
Step 1: The Nazis are bad.
Step 2: If you are in politics and you say a word against israel let alone campaign to make them shape up your political opponents can instantly label you as a Nazi. And that is if israel does not do it for them. *
Step 3: To continue your further political carrier see rule 1.

* Not saying that they will in fact do this. But you are giving them a loaded gun. And you have to be either very brave or very crazy to risk it.


PS. One can in fact not be a Nazi/Antisemitic and yet hate israel. Just like one can hate America for their foreign adventures but have no problems with the average American. Or how one can hate the Nazis but have no problem with the average German. Hate the government not the people.

[Ritterin Sophia]

EDIT: To clarify, would you consider it appropriate to call Mugabe the n-word in a thread about Zimbabwe. Why or why not?

Mang, you might have an actual point if I'd said 'Those fucking Heebs' or 'damn those kikes'. The approximate equivalent for what I did replacing Israel and it's actions with Mugabe and his acts in Zimbabwe would be quoting or paraphrasing an American segregationist and translating it to the Shona language to point out the irony of the action and condemn their actions.

[fgalkin]

And people still insist that they're not antisemites....

Yes, because when a country acts like their former oppressors did to call them on it is discrimination against the entire race and not pointing out the comparison.

Jump off a cliff.
-General Schatten

Just to clarify, is this "ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer"?

Indeed.

In what bizzarro twisted world is refusing to provide free water and electricity and demolishing some houses considered identical to wholesale extermination? If they were acting like the Nazis, they would have rounded up every inhabitant of the village, doused them with gasoline and set them on fire, after raping all the women.

I'm not disputing that Israel is being a massive asshole, but your comparison falls flat. You could have said "South Africa" and been closer to the truth.

EDIT: To clarify, would you consider it appropriate to call Mugabe the n-word in a thread about Zimbabwe. Why or why not?

Mang, you might have an actual point if I'd said 'Those fucking Heebs' or 'damn those kikes'. The approximate equivalent would be quoting an American segregationist in the Shona language.

Here's the thing- Nazi symbols, the Hitler Salute, etc are considered hate speech. They are considered that for a reason- by using them, you're basically saying "get murdered, subhuman scum." This is why people drawing swastika graffiti are prosecuted for hate crimes. Saying "ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer" is no different than drawing a swastika- it is inherently hate speech.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Ritterin Sophia]

In what bizzarro twisted world is refusing to provide free water and electricity and demolishing some houses considered identical to wholesale extermination.

How is stealing land from the people who have lived there for centuries and then consigning them to ever smaller and smaller ghettos in the name of a greater racial homeland NOT Nazi-esque?

Here's the thing- Nazi symbols, the Hitler Salute, etc are considered hate speech. They are considered that for a reason- by using them, you're basically saying "get murdered, subhuman scum." This is why people drawing swastika graffiti are prosecuted for hate crimes. Saying "ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer" is no different than drawing a swastika- it is inherently hate speech.

Nope, I'm sorry, it isn't hate speech to ironically or sarcastically use hate speech to disparage heinous acts. Anymore than it's hate speech to respond to hate groups with ridiculing sarcasm and irony.

[fgalkin]

In what bizzarro twisted world is refusing to provide free water and electricity and demolishing some houses considered identical to wholesale extermination.

How is stealing land from the people who have lived there for centuries and then consigning them to ever smaller and smaller ghettos in the name of a greater racial homeland NOT Nazi-esque?

Because taking the land and displacing the inhabitants has been done by every invader in history. What made the Nazis special was the extermination that came along with it.

Here's the thing- Nazi symbols, the Hitler Salute, etc are considered hate speech. They are considered that for a reason- by using them, you're basically saying "get murdered, subhuman scum." This is why people drawing swastika graffiti are prosecuted for hate crimes. Saying "ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer" is no different than drawing a swastika- it is inherently hate speech.

Nope, I'm sorry, it isn't hate speech to ironically or sarcastically use hate speech to disparage heinous acts. Anymore than it's hate speech to respond to hate groups with ridiculing sarcasm and irony.

So, you do think that it's perfectly allright to say "get lynched, n*gger" to people you disagree with, as long as its done ironically. Gotcha.

Man, the stench of white priviledge is heavy in this thread.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Ritterin Sophia]

Because taking the land and displacing the inhabitants has been done by every invader in history. What made the Nazis special was the extermination that came along with it.

Except it's not otherwise there would have been no Poles and Lithuanians to return to Poland after the hundred years following Austria, Prussia, and Russia annexing the totality of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, they would've all assimilated into the population they had been displaced to. That's only one aspect of Nazism, racial supremacy and an unhealthy obsession for a racially pure homeland was the defining trait of the Nazis

So, you do think that it's perfectly allright to say "get lynched, n*gger" to people you disagree with, as long as its done ironically. Gotcha.

Man, the stench of white priviledge is heavy in this thread.

Except I didn't say the equivalent of 'get lynched' or 'murder x' and I certainly didn't use a slur, unlike your blatant strawman, I used non-violent rhetoric that didn't even include anything about race or ethnicity. The Israeli bias is strong with you fgalkin. But please, feel free to look ridiculous.

[evilsoup]

Man, fgalkin, go fuck yourself you illiterate troll.
Nobody used any kind of racist insult. The equivalent to this kind of stuff with Mugawbe would be to compare him to the imperial powers.

Are you arguing that Israel's horribly racist ethnic ghettoisation is okay? Just because some other people have done the same and worse in the past?

Go fuck yourself
-evilsoup

[Block]

How is stealing land from the people who have lived there for centuries and then consigning them to ever smaller and smaller ghettos in the name of a greater racial homeland NOT Nazi-esque?

You mean exactly what was done to the Jews in most of Europe for something like 1000 years in an effort to control our numbers? Are you willing to call the actions of basically all of Europe Nazi-esque? Or are you capable of seeing that while shitty there's a difference between that and wholesale slaughter?

[fgalkin]

Because taking the land and displacing the inhabitants has been done by every invader in history. What made the Nazis special was the extermination that came along with it.

Except it's not otherwise there would have been no Poles and Lithuanians to return to Poland after the hundred years following Austria, Prussia, and Russia annexing the totality of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, they would've all assimilated into the population they had been displaced to. That's only one aspect of Nazism, racial supremacy and an unhealthy obsession for a racially pure homeland was the defining trait of the Nazis

The Poles and Lithuanians were not displaced, nor did they "return." That's like saying the Japanese were displaced by the US occupation after WWII, or that the Puerto Ricans are displaced right now because they are a US territory. The leadership changed, the people stayed the same. Your analogy fails yet again.

EDIT: Moreover, what Block said. Under your reasoning, all of Europe since the Middle Ages was ruled by Nazis.

So, you do think that it's perfectly allright to say "get lynched, n*gger" to people you disagree with, as long as its done ironically. Gotcha.

Man, the stench of white priviledge is heavy in this thread.

Except I didn't say the equivalent of 'get lynched' or 'murder x' and I certainly didn't use a slur, unlike your blatant strawman, I used non-violent rhetoric. The Israeli bias is strong with you fgalkin.

"Ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer" is non-violent? There is a reason that slogan is considered fighting words in parts of the world, you know.

Are you arguing that Israel's horribly racist ethnic ghettoisation is okay? Just because some other people have done the same and worse in the past?

I'm not disputing that Israel is being a massive asshole

And you call me illiterate!

Man, these racists are hilarious!

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Block]

That's only one aspect of Nazism, racial supremacy and an unhealthy obsession for a racially pure homeland was the defining trait of the Nazis.

Except that it's not about racial supremacy except for a couple of fringe morons. Frankly it's about not trusting others to look out for our interests. There are less than 14 million Jews in the world, less than 1.5 million in Europe, and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, a lot of it is because Europeans have basically been trying to get rid of us for as long as we can remember, so after WWII there was a conscious decision made to establish a country that was specifically Jewish to protect those interests, the biggest one being survival.

[Vendetta]

That's only one aspect of Nazism, racial supremacy and an unhealthy obsession for a racially pure homeland was the defining trait of the Nazis.

Except that it's not about racial supremacy except for a couple of fringe morons. Frankly it's about not trusting others to look out for our interests. There are less than 14 million Jews in the world, less than 1.5 million in Europe, and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, a lot of it is because Europeans have basically been trying to get rid of us for as long as we can remember, so after WWII there was a conscious decision made to establish a country that was specifically Jewish to protect those interests, the biggest one being survival.

Of course, "survival" pretty swiftly got redefined to "Invade and occupy surrounding territory, then spend 50 years progressively assimilating it by displacing the population in the name of security."

[Ritterin Sophia]

The Poles and Lithuanians were not displaced, nor did they "return." That's like saying the Japanese were displaced by the US occupation after WWII, or that the Puerto Ricans are displaced right now because they are a US territory. The leadership changed, the people stayed the same. Your analogy fails yet again.

It's not an analogy, I was pointing out that not everyone was displaced.

"Ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer" is non-violent? There is a reason that slogan is considered fighting words in parts of the world, you know.

"One People, One Empire, One Leader" specifically which part of that calls upon violent action.

Man, these racists are hilarious!

Sure thing Mr. "Arabs don't deserve democracy".

Except that it's not about racial supremacy except for a couple of fringe morons. Frankly it's about not trusting others to look out for our interests. There are less than 14 million Jews in the world, less than 1.5 million in Europe, and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, a lot of it is because Europeans have basically been trying to get rid of us for as long as we can remember, so after WWII there was a conscious decision made to establish a country that was specifically Jewish to protect those interests, the biggest one being survival.

Quick point of fact here: Israel is not all Jews, nor does it represent all Jews, it only represents the Jews who want to live in an ethnic homeland. In fact the plurality of Jews are American. This is a big problem you pro-Israelis have, conflating Israel with the whole of the Jewish population. Israel is largely made up of Jews it does not itself represent all Jews in any form or fashion.

[fgalkin]

That's only one aspect of Nazism, racial supremacy and an unhealthy obsession for a racially pure homeland was the defining trait of the Nazis.

Except that it's not about racial supremacy except for a couple of fringe morons. Frankly it's about not trusting others to look out for our interests. There are less than 14 million Jews in the world, less than 1.5 million in Europe, and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, a lot of it is because Europeans have basically been trying to get rid of us for as long as we can remember, so after WWII there was a conscious decision made to establish a country that was specifically Jewish to protect those interests, the biggest one being survival.

Considering that even today 15% of Americans are strong anti-semites and a quarter blames Jews for the financial crisis (sound familiar?), the issues of security do remain even today.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Block]

That's only one aspect of Nazism, racial supremacy and an unhealthy obsession for a racially pure homeland was the defining trait of the Nazis.

Except that it's not about racial supremacy except for a couple of fringe morons. Frankly it's about not trusting others to look out for our interests. There are less than 14 million Jews in the world, less than 1.5 million in Europe, and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, a lot of it is because Europeans have basically been trying to get rid of us for as long as we can remember, so after WWII there was a conscious decision made to establish a country that was specifically Jewish to protect those interests, the biggest one being survival.

Of course, "survival" pretty swiftly got redefined to "Invade and occupy surrounding territory, then spend 50 years progressively assimilating it by displacing the population in the name of security."

I'm not going to argue the whole thing with you, one cause it's against board rules and two because we'll never agree, but I think that's a cynical and simplified version that leaves out very valid concerns that the Israelis have.

[evilsoup]

I think most people would be willing to call the pogroms and ghettos and so on nazi-eque, actually.

I also think it's great that the apologists for a fundamentally racist state enacting actively racist policies on a large scale seem to love calling any critics of this racist expansionism racists. I mean shit, Israel is in the process of dispossessing and disinheriting a third of the population of the area to make way for settlers, and you get shitty about people calling them nazis?

I do see your point of view, mind. Who cares if Israel needs to remove a few untermensch sand-niggers? They need that lebensraum for the pure jewish race.

Of course, every invader ever has apparently done the same, so I guess that makes it ok :V

Go fuck yourself
-evilsoup

(PS people routinely call guys like the British National Party nazis or blackshirts; that group doesn't actually want to gas anyone, but they are massively racist shitheads, and so it's entirely appropriate)

[Ritterin Sophia]

Considering that even today 15% of Americans are strong anti-semites and a quarter blames Jews for the financial crisis (sound familiar?), the issues of security do remain even today.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

That's why Jews only make up 1.5% of the American populace but make up 7.3% of the 112th Congress' numbers, right? We hate them so much we make them wholly misrepresentative of the population in our political institution so that we can continue the conspiracy that they control everything.

I've also got to laugh at using a source like the ADL and a survey from five years ago.

[Block]

Quick point of fact here: Israel is not all Jews, nor does it represent all Jews, it only represents the Jews who want to live in an ethnic homeland. In fact the plurality of Jews are American. This is a big problem you pro-Israelis have, conflating Israel with the whole of the Jewish population. Israel is largely made up of Jews it does not itself represent all Jews in any form or fashion.

I didn't say that it did represent all Jews, nor do I conflate those who live in Israel with myself, a fifth generation American descended from Russian Jews chased out by the Pogroms of the Cossaks, their culture is very different from mine. I said a concious decision was made by those who established the country to create a homeland for the Jewish people, because they didn't trust Europeans. Frankly I agree with that decision, as there are still shitloads of Anti-semites in Europe, here in the US and across the rest of the globe. I don't agree with the way Israel does a lot of what it does, but I can see why they do.

[evilsoup]

Schatten I think anti-semitism actually is still going strong. A glance at the shitty parts of the internet should tell you that. It'll take a long time for that shit to die down entirely.

In the UK at least, I think it's actually on the rise, and a large part of that is down to Israeli policies (and how this affects the opinions of middle-eastern immigrants over here).

But I don't see why that makes racist fuckwits like fgalkin think they can call critics of Israeli policy racist.

I think it's fucking fantastic that the response to genocide by Europeans is to fuck over a bunch of brown people though.