Mississippi about to eliminate its last abortion clinic

[Darth Wong]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/11/us/missis ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Federal judge to determine fate of Mississippi's last abortion clinic

Jackson, Mississippi (CNN) -- A federal judge will decide Wednesday whether Mississippi's only abortion clinic can continue to stay open under a temporary order or whether it should permanently shut its doors under a new state law.

The law, which took effect July 1, requires all abortion providers in Mississippi to be certified obstetrician/gynecologists with privileges at local hospitals. Doctors at Jackson Women's Health Organization, the only abortion provider in the state, travel in from other states, and only one of its doctors is authorized to practice at a nearby hospital.

Supporters of the new law say it is intended to protect women from unscrupulous practitioners, but others say it's just another step to outlaw abortions in the state. Even Republican Gov. Phil Bryant called it "the first step in a movement, I believe, to do what we campaigned on: to say that we're going to try to end abortion in Mississippi."

Since the law went into effect, the Jackson Women's Health Organization has remained open under a federal judge's temporary order blocking enforcement of the law until Wednesday's hearing. The clinic is trying to comply with the law, according to owner Diane Derzis, but it has been hampered by red tape and the cumbersome application process to get hospital privileges.

That forced the clinic to seek a permanent injunction allowing it to stay open while it fights the law, which Derzis and other opponents say violates Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that struck down many state laws that restricted abortions.

On Wednesday, the federal judge will decide whether the state of Mississippi can begin a 60- to 90-day administrative process to begin closing the clinic for noncompliance with the new state law. The clinic, which has been in operation for eight years, says this would cause it irreparable harm and could result in its permanent closure. Its officials also fear fines and jail time if they choose to stay open during any appeals process, which is why they are looking for relief in federal court.

"We've been able to be with women at a time in their lives where they are in crisis, when they need to have something done and need that support," Derzis said. "That's why it has to be available. It has to be."

Despite some past minor citations, the Jackson Women's Health Organization has a very good record with the Mississippi Department of Health, an official there told CNN.

Mississippi is one of the toughest states for the abortion-rights movement. Its laws require a 24-hour waiting period, as well as parental consent if the patient seeking an abortion is a minor. Seven other states require abortion providers to have hospital privileges, but no other state requires that an abortion provider be an OB/GYN, according to the Guttmacher Institute in Washington, a sexual and reproductive health organization.

"All of that is wrapped in that cloak of conservative religion," said W. Martin Wiseman, director of the Stennis Institute of Government at Mississippi State University.

"When you are in this state, you cannot separate an issue from religion. ... The normal rationale used in other states doesn't fly here. You'll find very few legislators -- regardless of whether they are white, black, Democrat or Republican -- who will say 'I'm pro-abortion,' " Wiseman said.

Mississippi state Rep. Sam Mims, a Republican who sponsored the legislation, said the law is intended to protect the health and safety of women.

"I think the intent is to make sure that women who are receiving these abortions are receiving abortions by a professional physician who is certified," he said. "If something goes wrong -- which it might, we hope it doesn't, but it could -- that that physician could follow the patient to a local hospital. That's the intent. And what happens afterwards, we'll have to see what happens."

Bryant signed the bill into law in April after the Republican-dominated legislature overwhelmingly passed it. Bryant said he signed the bill to support women's health, but he also says Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided and should be overturned. He has since filed a "friend of the court" brief in the case against the Jackson clinic.

Derzis believes that the real intent of the newly elected Republican majority was to end abortion in the state, not to improve women's health care.

"I love that it's white old men making those statements," she said. "This is not about safety. This is about politics, and politics do not need to be in our uterus."

I can't believe how successful this campaign has been. Conservatives have figured out that if they can't ban abortion, they can just ban all the means of getting an abortion. You would think that this incredibly obvious end-run around the law would have been struck down by now, but I guess not.

[CJvR]

Nice.

Only thing missing is a ban on pregnant women leaving the state and they will have built Jerusalem.

[Eulogy]

Mississippi has now created a black market for abortions. I have a hunch that the dumber conservatives will be genuinely surprised at the rising crime rate caused by swelling illegal abortions.

Only thing missing is a ban on pregnant women leaving the state and they will have built Jerusalem.

What makes you think that pregnant women leaving the state to get abortions will tell people that they are pregnant, or that the number of "natural" miscarriages and stillbirths won't sharply rise in light of this? Try as they might, fundies and conservatards cannot stop a woman who doesn't want a child to not have one, especially since - steeped in hypocrisy, of course - they won't take care of the unwanted kids.

It's a Prohibition on a woman's right to choose instead of alcohol, and it will utterly fail for the same reasons.

[Terralthra]

Most of these overly-strict laws do get struck down, but it takes time to go through the court system.

[Ralin]

Only thing missing is a ban on pregnant women leaving the state and they will have built Jerusalem.

Is this a reference to something or just a way of saying they want to be a theocracy?

What makes you think that pregnant women leaving the state to get abortions will tell people that they are pregnant, or that the number of "natural" miscarriages and stillbirths won't sharply rise in light of this? Try as they might, fundies and conservatards cannot stop a woman who doesn't want a child to not have one, especially since - steeped in hypocrisy, of course - they won't take care of the unwanted kids.

What do you want to bet that the people who support this law would also be okay with making doctors report pregnancies? And that they would also be much more willing to pay to have women who try to get an abortion imprisoned until they give birth than they are to pay for things like prenatal or childcare?

[Col. Crackpot]

the federal court has ruled that the clinic will stay open for now whilee the case is reviewed. Sorry can provide a smartphone friendly link yet...

[SCRawl]

Boom.

[Kuja]

Boom.

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) — A federal judge on Wednesday decided to continue to block a state law that threatened to shut down Mississippi's only abortion clinic and make it nearly impossible for a woman to get the procedure in the state.

U.S. District Judge Daniel P. Jordan III temporarily blocked the law July 1 and extended that order Wednesday, though he did not immediately say how long it would last.

The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that states can't place undue burdens or substantial obstacles to women seeking abortion. The state law would require anyone performing clinic abortions to be an OB-GYN with privileges to admit patients to a local hospital. The doctors at the clinic in Jackson do not have those privileges, and the clinic says the privileges aren't medically necessary.

Supporters of the law say it's designed to protect patients. Republican Gov. Phil Bryant has said he hopes it will help make Mississippi "abortion-free."

The clinic, Jackson Women's Health Organization, says it has been unable to obtain admitting privileges for its two out-of-state OB-GYNs because local hospitals have not responded to their requests.

Admitting privileges can be difficult to get because hospitals might not grant them to out-of-state physicians, or hospitals with religious affiliations might not give them to doctors who perform abortions.

The clinic said it would face "irreparable harm" if the law were to be enforced because hospitals haven't said when — or if — they'll consider the admitting privileges. The clinic wanted the judge to keep the law on hold to see if its doctors can get the privileges.

"If they're denied or if the hospitals are dragging their feet, that's going to be more clear evidence that there's a substantial obstacle" to an abortion, clinic attorney Robert McDuff said.

The government said the privileges help protect patients by ensuring they have continuity of care if a woman needs to go to the hospital. They also note that while the clinic might have to wait to get hospital privileges, "inconvenience is not 'irreparable harm.'"

The state attorney general's office declined to comment after the hearing.

The law was passed by the GOP-controlled Legislature. When the governor signed it, he said: "If it closes that clinic, then so be it."

The state's attorney had argued that any anti-abortion statements by elected officials were "weak evidence" that the purpose of the law was to prevent abortions.

Terri Herring of the Pro Life America Network lobbied for the law and attended the court hearing. After the judge's decision, Herring said the hospitals should deny admitting privileges for the abortion clinic's doctors.

"There's no vetting process for fly-by-night physicians who come in and perform abortions at the clinic," Herring said.

The clinic uses out-of-state physicians because in-state physicians generally don't want to face the social pressure of having protesters at their offices, homes or churches, clinic employees say.

Opponents of the law say any patient experiencing complications could receive immediate care from emergency room physicians.

The clinic for the past several years has also had a transfer agreement with a local OB-GYN who has hospital admitting privileges. He doesn't perform abortions at the clinic but provides backup help by agreeing to meet clinic patients at a hospital if there's an emergency.

Clinic owner Diane Derzis said since she acquired Jackson Women's Health Organization in 2010, no woman has had to be taken from the clinic by ambulance.

The U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision in 1973 established a nationwide right to abortion. In 1992, the court's decision in Planned Parenthood v. Casey upheld the Roe decision and allowed states to regulate abortions before fetuses are viable. But the 1992 decision also said states may not place undue burdens or substantial obstacles to women seeking abortion.

If the clinic closed, the closest clinics to Jackson are about 200 miles away, in Louisiana, Tennessee and Alabama.

Mississippi physicians who perform fewer than 10 abortions a month can avoid having their offices regulated as an abortion clinic, and thus avoid restrictions in the new law. The clinic's owner has said the clinic is unlikely to stay open and perform that few abortions per month. The Health Department said it doesn't have a record of how many physicians perform fewer than 10 abortions a month.

Clinic operators say almost all the abortions in the state are done in their building. They say in court papers that the clinic did about 3,000 abortions in 18 months.

[D.Turtle]

One would expect/hope that the comments by the governor (and there probably are similar comments available by some of the legislators) make this a clear-cut attempt at deliberately working around Roe v Wade and ban abortions in the state.

Unfortunately, with the current Supreme Court, there are some doubts about how a retreading of Roe v Wade would go. I now from some atheist organisations, that there are fears that certain appeals or law suits could set damaging precedents because of the current Supreme Court make-up and therefore aren't made.

[Darth Wong]

It's good to hear that the feds have blocked it, but we all know what southerners think of feds telling them what their precious state-level governments can and can't do to their own citizens.

By the way, regarding the earlier joking about regulating the movement of pregnant women, they've come perilously close to making that reality. After all, they tried to pass "personhood amendments", and if such an amendment should pass, then the movement of a pregnant woman across a border would constitute transport of a minor across state lines.

[Alyrium Denryle]

"There's no vetting process for fly-by-night physicians who come in and perform abortions at the clinic," Herring said.

Fly-By-Night physicians? Really? REALLY!? Y

The clinic uses out-of-state physicians because in-state physicians generally don't want to face the social pressure of having protesters at their offices, homes or churches, clinic employees say.

Let's not forget the death threats and...actual deaths.

[Surlethe]

It's good to hear that the feds have blocked it, but we all know what southerners think of feds telling them what their precious state-level governments can and can't do to their own citizens.

By the way, regarding the earlier joking about regulating the movement of pregnant women, they've come perilously close to making that reality. After all, they tried to pass "personhood amendments", and if such an amendment should pass, then the movement of a pregnant woman across a border would constitute transport of a minor across state lines.

And if that woman were crossing state borders to get an abortion ...

I know for damn sure that if we get pregnant again, we're not going to be so much as driving through a personhood amendment state without very careful consideration and planning. Something as simple as a car accident triggering a miscarriage could conceivably cause us to be detained for a manslaughter investigation.

It's not direct regulation of cross-border traffic, but like all government regulations it has secondary and tertiary effects on people's behavior.

[Flagg]

It's good to hear that the feds have blocked it, but we all know what southerners think of feds telling them what their precious state-level governments can and can't do to their own citizens.

By the way, regarding the earlier joking about regulating the movement of pregnant women, they've come perilously close to making that reality. After all, they tried to pass "personhood amendments", and if such an amendment should pass, then the movement of a pregnant woman across a border would constitute transport of a minor across state lines.

And if that woman were crossing state borders to get an abortion ...

Nothing would happen because it's legal federally.

[Alyrium Denryle]

It's good to hear that the feds have blocked it, but we all know what southerners think of feds telling them what their precious state-level governments can and can't do to their own citizens.

By the way, regarding the earlier joking about regulating the movement of pregnant women, they've come perilously close to making that reality. After all, they tried to pass "personhood amendments", and if such an amendment should pass, then the movement of a pregnant woman across a border would constitute transport of a minor across state lines.

And if that woman were crossing state borders to get an abortion ...

Nothing would happen because it's legal federally.

That does not mean they wont try. Arrest you for conspiracy to commit murder. At best, you might win the ensuing jurisdictional cockfight, but the fucking fundies WILL try.

[Block]

And if that woman were crossing state borders to get an abortion ...

Nothing would happen because it's legal federally.

That does not mean they wont try. Arrest you for conspiracy to commit murder. At best, you might win the ensuing jurisdictional cockfight, but the fucking fundies WILL try.

and get slapped down so severely they'll have to wait another 40 years to be able to try again.

[Ralin]

and get slapped down so severely they'll have to wait another 40 years to be able to try again.

One hopes. What if there's a Republican president and a conservative Supreme Court and they get lucky? This is the sort of problem that's best nipped in the bud.

[Col. Crackpot]

It's good to hear that the feds have blocked it, but we all know what southerners think of feds telling them what their precious state-level governments can and can't do to their own citizens.

By the way, regarding the earlier joking about regulating the movement of pregnant women, they've come perilously close to making that reality. After all, they tried to pass "personhood amendments", and if such an amendment should pass, then the movement of a pregnant woman across a border would constitute transport of a minor across state lines.

They can declare personhood all they want at the state level but the Mann Act is a federal statute and outsside the jurisdiction of a state to prosecute.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

States ignoring federal laws happens all the time. Illinois and New Jersey prosecute people for having pistols without a license to own them when they're locked in their trunk and unloaded. This is manifestly illegal as federal law preserves for you the right to take a pistol in a locked case from one state where it is legal to another state where it is legal. However, the arrest and court case will drag out for 18 months and financially ruin you, with contrivances like someone getting nailed in New Jersey because they weren't engaged in transit on the grounds that they'd stopped at McDonalds instead of just a gas station. Because of this when I move back east in August I've had to plan a route through Upper Michigan to avoid the entire state of Illinois. It's easily possible that the same thing could become necessary for pregnant women vis-a-vis personhood states, though it's really, really scary to think about it, because it implies the millions of women in those states have essentially become slaves to a pervasive enforcement regime. I don't think it's likely, but neither can people just imperiously declare it'll be sure to get smacked down. The courts haven't effectually intervened in Illinois and New Jersey's games and they've been going on for decades in a period with rather conservative courts.

[Aaron MkII]

Are police actually going to enforcement this. Like does it give a cop probable cause to stop any vehicle carrying a pregnant woman within a certain number of miles of the border. Will they even know about it?

This seems to open up some really stupid avenues for police, as well as totally wasting their time.

[General Zod]

Are police actually going to enforcement this. Like does it give a cop probable cause to stop any vehicle carrying a pregnant woman within a certain number of miles of the border. Will they even know about it?

This seems to open up some really stupid avenues for police, as well as totally wasting their time.

They could always set up border checkpoints and add "special screening" for any pregnant women at their airport. Just for extra laughs.

[Omega18]

It's easily possible that the same thing could become necessary for pregnant women vis-a-vis personhood states, though it's really, really scary to think about it, because it implies the millions of women in those states have essentially become slaves to a pervasive enforcement regime. I don't think it's likely, but neither can people just imperiously declare it'll be sure to get smacked down. The courts haven't effectually intervened in Illinois and New Jersey's games and they've been going on for decades in a period with rather conservative courts.

Honestly no it is not.

Anti-abortion foes are frankly being dumb about their whole person-hood amendment idea because as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, merely overturning Roe V. Wade would be a comparatively moderate judicial action versus allowing a personhood measure which would impact all sorts of other things (as sort of alluded to in your post) including artificial insemination options. There is simply no way the Supreme Court doesn't strike down such a measure as soon as it reaches that level. (It also appears to simply be a loser politically as opposed to other anti-abortion measures which can actually potentially get political support in some states.)

At that point any cop trying to enforce the law anyways is realistically looking at criminal charges or at least losing their job over the incident as that police department is looking at a nasty lawsuit.

By the way I'll point out that "enforcement" idea would basically only theoretically work if the pregnant woman spontaneously confessed on the spot since being pregnant while wanting to temporarily leave the state would prove nothing. The only way police could theoretically enforce such a law would be prosecution after the fact.

[Darth Wong]

Anti-abortion foes are frankly being dumb about their whole person-hood amendment idea because as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, merely overturning Woe V. Wade would be a comparatively moderate judicial action versus allowing a personhood measure which would impact all sorts of other things (as sort of alluded to in your post) including artificial insemination options. There is simply no way the Supreme Court doesn't strike down such a measure as soon as it reaches that level. (It also appears to simply be a loser politically as opposed to other anti-abortion measures which can actually potentially get political support in some states.)

Fair enough; personhood amendments are unlikely to actually pass. We are describing what might happen if they did pass.

[Ralin]

Are police actually going to enforcement this. Like does it give a cop probable cause to stop any vehicle carrying a pregnant woman within a certain number of miles of the border. Will they even know about it?

It doesn't seem likely, but like Duchess and Alyrium said, it's possible and they would try

I don't see how they would be able to know a pregnant woman is in a car before pulling her over, but they could notice if they pull her over for something else, and that's not exactly uncommon. Proving she's leaving the state for an abortion would be another can of worms, but like I said, better to nip the problem in the bud before these questions start getting answered.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I don't think this is going to happen, just to reinforce the point in my original post. I was just trying to observe that if it did there is no guarantee of protection from the federal courts on the matter.

[General Zod]

Are police actually going to enforcement this. Like does it give a cop probable cause to stop any vehicle carrying a pregnant woman within a certain number of miles of the border. Will they even know about it?

It doesn't seem likely, but like Duchess and Alyrium said, it's possible and they would try

I don't see how they would be able to know a pregnant woman is in a car before pulling her over, but they could notice if they pull her over for something else, and that's not exactly uncommon. Proving she's leaving the state for an abortion would be another can of worms, but like I said, better to nip the problem in the bud before these questions start getting answered.

The most likely possibility is she runs away from home and her parents report her missing to the cops. (Oh and by the way she's pregnant, officer, I think she might be trying to kill her baby!)