Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

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Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Force Lord »

Some rebel got lucky...
CBS News wrote:(CBS News) LONDON - An explosion inside the Syrian national security headquarters in Damascus targeted ministers from President Bashar Assad's regime who were meeting with defense officials on Wednesday, killing two of the most senior members of Assad's inner circle, including his brother-in-law. The Syrian Army said Defense Minister Gen. Dawoud Rajha and his deputy Asef Shawkat were both killed in the explosion.

Shawkat, Assad's brother-in-law, also held the title of Deputy Chief of Staff. Other ministers and military officials were seriously injured in the explosion, according to the state-run TV channel.

The Syrian Army confirmed the deaths, saying Rajha and Shawkat, seen at left, had been "martyred" in a "terror attack".

"The attack makes Syria, its armed forces, people and leadership, more determined to stand up to terror groups and amputate the arm of anybody who seeks undermine Syrian security," continued the Army.
Syrian State TV denied another report that Interior Minister Mohammed al-Shaar was dead, saying he was hospitalized in stable condition.
EDIT:

And the perpetrator is:
MSNBC wrote:Updated at 9:15 a.m. ET: Syria's defense minister and President Bashar Assad's brother-in-law were killed in a Damascus suicide bomb attack carried out by a bodyguard on Wednesday, the most serious blow to Assad's high command in the country's 16-month-old rebellion.

The bomber -- said by a Reuters security source to be a bodyguard assigned to Assad's inner circle -- struck during a meeting attended by ministers and senior security officials in the Syrian capital as battles raged within sight of the presidential palace.
A bodyguard blowing himself up in close range of senior Syrian officals? I can't see Assad trusting his own personal security forces after this.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Col. Crackpot »

His brother in law killed by his own body guard. The fighting has reached Damascus... wont be long now.... and no tears will be shed for Mr. Assad.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

when your pretorian guard start preforming the assassinations your country is fucked
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

The Americans are saying it's spilling out of control. For that to be true it had to have been under control first...
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

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The Yosemite Bear wrote:when your pretorian guard start preforming the assassinations your country is fucked
Pretty much, yeah.

I think we're past the point of no return now.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Lord Revan »

now the question remains which one will be the better one the "devil you know" or the "one you don't know".
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Sea Skimmer »

You guys might want to keep in mind that Hafez Al-Assad, the elder one, once came within a second or two of death when multiple hand grenades were thrown at him, he only survived because he personally kicked away one, and a bodyguard threw himself on another, and lived no less. That was back in 1980, Hafez responded by having a huge number of political prisoners and members of the Muslim Brotherhood executed in prison, the Hama massacre came about two years later into that uprising.

A bombing like this is certainly a sign that the regime is being weakened, but its no clear sign that it is even close to toppling, and all those rebels in Damascus cannot have much ammunition, they have said as much. Thousands and thousands of men are still fighting to defend the regime, reinforcements are being pulled off the Golan as we speak, and Assad still has not used a wide range of options he has, though all of them with great risks such as just leveling rebel held areas. Supposedly this is already being threatened on certain districts in Damascus. So far for all the violence, random shelling and mass arrests, Assad has in fact held back overall. That may change now.

It isn't over until its over. I don't really think Assad will survive this, though regime still could as young Assad has never commanded the same prestige or overall power his father did, but any collapse could still be many months away and the majority of the dead may still be alive at this moment. Hell just look how long Qaddafi kept fighting after Tripoli fell, and he was in a vastly weaker position from the onset.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

hey how many decades/centures did Rome last after the year of the Five Caesars?
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by cosmicalstorm »

If I understand it correctly, the Syrian economy was in a lousy condition before this started. Even if they strike back the rebels they will be broke.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

cosmicalstorm wrote:If I understand it correctly, the Syrian economy was in a lousy condition before this started. Even if they strike back the rebels they will be broke.
They do have the advantae of having plenty of funding from Iran, and an external army of mercenaries who can and have been used to help internal oppression. (Hammas soldiers).
Was the economy in a lousier condition than normal? It's mainly agriculture and oil based after all.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by cosmicalstorm »

It has to be in shambles after something like this. I imagine we only hear of the Big Stuff from the outside, bombings, shellings and such. But in a conflict like this there is bound to be all kinds of smaller sabotage taking place, cutting down powerlines and opening water pipes, destroying roads, pipelines and so on. I Haven't been able to find much info about this stuff, but I don't doubt it's taking place considering how big the internal strife is right now. Syria is going to be a lot weaker for the foreseeable future even if they get things under control again, IMHO.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Raj Ahten »

That report that it was a suicide bombing bodyguard who perpetrated the deed is less than certain. Other reports have rebels claiming they detonated a bomb remotely (This from the NYtimes, which is behind a pay wall.) Personally I'd take any report on how it happened as being at least 90% bullshit as everyone talking to the press on this has an axe to grind and its impossible to independently confirm anything in Syria. What is for certain is the defense minister and the other folks are dead as both sides have confirmed it.

Personally I'm thinking any one assassination will never end this debacle. The Regime's security services and tendrils of power are too deeply entrenched to be removed without further major bloodletting. The institutions are stronger than any one man.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Sea Skimmer »

The economic centers of the country have been some of the least affected by fighting, Aleppo and the coastal ports, and until now downtown Damascus. They aren't in good shape but the government had a lot of money in the bank and the economy is still functioning to a considerable degree. That may not last if Damascus keeps being shot up, and in the last month rebel held villages and towns have been creeping closer to Aleppo. But since Iran has about a eighty billion dollars in the bank, they could bankroll the government for a while yet.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

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The Yosemite Bear wrote:hey how many decades/centures did Rome last after the year of the Five Caesars?
bear, please stop with the inaccurate analogies.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Sea Skimmer wrote:The economic centers of the country have been some of the least affected by fighting, Aleppo and the coastal ports, and until now downtown Damascus. They aren't in good shape but the government had a lot of money in the bank and the economy is still functioning to a considerable degree. That may not last if Damascus keeps being shot up, and in the last month rebel held villages and towns have been creeping closer to Aleppo. But since Iran has about a eighty billion dollars in the bank, they could bankroll the government for a while yet.
My point was about economic doldrums before (and thus a possible cause) of this, not that a civil war and massive mass murders of towns would have a deliritious effect on the economy. (No arguments about that!)
Also, only 80 billion?

A few seconds googling shows 110 billion in known official foreign exchange reserves. (So a definitie underestimate, with Iran claiming to have more than 150 billion . )
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by General Mung Beans »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/19/world ... wanted=all

Interesting article on how skills regarding explosives may help turn the tide:
Military Analysis
Syrian Rebels Hone Bomb Skills to Even the Odds
By C. J. CHIVERS
Published: July 18, 2012

ANTAKYA, Turkey — The lethal attack on Wednesday on President Bashar al-Assad’s senior security chiefs aligned neatly with a tactical shift that had changed the direction of Syria’s long conflict: the opposition fighters’ swift and successful adoption of makeshift bombs.


Bombs have been in rebel use since violence intensified in Syria in late 2011. But since midspring, anti-Assad fighters have become bolder and sharply more effective with their use, and not only in what is apparently their hand in the assassinations in Damascus.

Improvised bombs have steadily become the most punishing weapon in the otherwise underequipped rebels’ arsenal, repeatedly destroying Syria’s main battle tanks, halting army convoys and inflicting heavy casualties on government ground operations in areas where armed resistance is strong, Western analysts and rebel field commanders and fighters said.

In this way, even as the anti-Assad fighters have appealed for international intervention and other forms of material and military support, local fighters have created their own informal buffer zones, pockets of the Syrian countryside that are now largely free of government ground troops.

“The bomb is not only essential, it is a main part of our success,” said a former Syrian Army artillery major, who called himself Abu Akhmed and leads a fighting group in Idlib, a northern Syrian province, in a meeting in a house in this Turkish city crowded with fighters.

“When you think of why we are improving and getting stronger, it is not because more weapons are coming in from outside,” he added. “The main reason is because we are becoming more organized, and because of our bombs.”

The bombs that Abu Akhmed described, known in Western military jargon as improvised explosive devices, or I.E.D.’s, have done more than kill Syrian soldiers and deny the Syrian Army access to Syrian terrain.

The weapon that has long been championed in the popular imagination and public discourse of underground fighters as a means to kill or drive off foreign occupiers — whether Russians in Chechnya or Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan — has been turned against a standing Arab army by its own people.

The shift happened subtly. Joseph Holliday, a former American Army intelligence officer who is now an analyst covering Syria for the Institute of the Study of War, in Washington, said the changes were not in the rate of attacks, but in a rapidly evolving prowess.

“The percentage of I.E.D. attacks compared to overall rebel activity has not increased in a statistically significant way,” Mr. Holliday wrote by e-mail, just hours before the assassinations in Damascus. “What has increased is the percentage of effective attacks.”

But, he added, “what has increased the most, and this has been the hardest thing to put a finger on through open source research, is the number of what U.S. military might call ‘catastrophic’ I.E.D. attacks.”

By that he meant bombs that destroyed heavily armored tanks, or caused large numbers of casualties.

Although precise casualty estimates are impossible to obtain, one senior Obama administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity under administration practice said that by June the Syrian military was suffering an average of 20 dead soldiers a day in various types of attacks, and several times that number of wounded. This would be a significant drain on a force already suffering from defections and now trying to suppress an escalating guerrilla conflict by conventional means.

The exact means by which anti-Assad fighters have improved their manufacture and use of bombs, and who trained them, is not clear.

Mr. Holliday said the capability “comes in part from the expertise of Syrian insurgents who learned bomb-making while fighting U.S. troops in eastern Iraq.”

An American official who follows the fighting in Syria and spoke on the condition of anonymity noted another example of turnabout. Some of the expertise, the official said, appeared to have been derived from the very trainers in explosives, who were formerly in Syrian intelligence or under its tutelage, with which Syria for decades exported bomb-making and other lethal skills to groups it sponsored in neighboring states.

The official also said the United States government strongly suspected the use of explosively formed penetrators, or E.F.P.’s, bombs with a shaped charge that can penetrate tank armor and that have often been associated with Iran. The official said that the number of these bombs in use was very small, and that the technology for making them was widespread enough that their presence did not indicate Iranian support for the rebels, who are seeking the ouster of an Iranian ally.

One anti-Assad fighter also here in Turkey described a course this spring on explosives that he said was taught in Istanbul by Islamists. In an account that could not be verified, he said fellow fighters who attended told him that its instruction did not go much beyond what the fighters had learned themselves (he said he had not attended himself). “Basically they taught the guys the same things they know,” he said. “Just how to do it safer.”

But many fighters and commanders from Idlib, Hama and Aleppo who were interviewed over the past week spoke of their success with bombs in a different way.

Sensitive to being compared to groups that have detonated bombs indiscriminately, they said that they were fighters using the only tools they had to succeed, and that they aimed at only military targets. They said the uptick in their success was a result not of outside help, but of local trial and error, and in some cases, they were forced into the experience by economics.

With prices of guns and ammunition soaring, they noted, bombs could be made with cheaper materials, giving fighters with limited means or limited access to traditional infantry arms an inexpensive way to fight.

One example was telling: A single rifle cartridge, they said, can cost up to $4, often more than the price of a single blasting cap, the primary explosive used to detonate a makeshift bomb’s main charge. (Multiple fighters and commanders in the past week said factory-grade electric blasting caps were available for $1.50 to $3 each, with most costing about $2.)

Another commander who also used the name Abu Akhmed said he bought blasting caps and then made the main explosive charges himself using urea-based fertilizer, sugar and sulfur, among other things, part of recipes fighters took from the Internet and circulated between rebel fighting groups. It took time, he said, to master the skill: “Once when I was making a bomb, I burned part of my house.”

The fighters also said they had learned many ways to explode their bombs, including via a direct electrical wire connection or remotely via a radio or cellphone signal.

Anti-Assad commanders credited the bombs with helping to change the fighters’ psychological experience of the battle against their government. Many rebel fighters, who said they were once afraid of government forces, now said they saw government ground operations as opportunities to kill Syrian troops along the roads, weaken the government and frustrate the army — a shift that emboldened them and engendered confidence.

Now, they said, it is the Syrian Army troops who are afraid, at least when they leave their garrisons and bases, and it is the rebels who sometimes feel like hunters.

“You don’t see trucks any more, soldiers riding in trucks” in the northern countryside, another fighter said. “The last time we saw trucks, everybody was excited.”
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Sea Skimmer »

The Grim Squeaker wrote: My point was about economic doldrums before (and thus a possible cause) of this, not that a civil war and massive mass murders of towns would have a deliritious effect on the economy. (No arguments about that!)
Also, only 80 billion?

A few seconds googling shows 110 billion in known official foreign exchange reserves. (So a definitie underestimate, with Iran claiming to have more than 150 billion . )
Well it was 80 billion a few years ago, guess they stocked up some. You'd have to be a fool to believe anything Iran claims economically though, they've been lying absurdly about the inflation rate for the last year to the point of censoring even searching for it online in the country. Its as if they actually think people will just forget how much they paid for items a matter of months ago.
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by madd0ct0r »

Raj Ahten wrote:That report that it was a suicide bombing bodyguard who perpetrated the deed is less than certain. Other reports have rebels claiming they detonated a bomb remotely (This from the NYtimes, which is behind a pay wall.)
can you post it anyway? - the NYT paywall is silly easy to bypass.

As for the rebels coating the countryside in IEDS. Oh goody. It'll be fun being a farmer for the next few decades.
(well, possibly not - IEDS =/= mines and Syria =/= Cambodia)
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Re: Syria: Defense minister and Assad brother-in-law killed

Post by Sea Skimmer »

I'd worry more about the ever larger minefields the Syrian government is laying along the border with Lebanon and Turkey then rebel IEDs. Home made IEDs wont have nearly as troubling of long term stability as factory sealed plastic land mines, and few if any of them use pressure plates or tripwires for detonation.

Also, no jungle and mostly not mountains in Syria, so clearing mines is about a thousand times easier out of hand, and at least the rebel IEDs tend to be along roads rather then scattered at random across vast areas. Plus just proportional to the threat a nation like Syria with lots of heavy mechanized equipment and people trained to use it is going to be just far better able to handle UXOs then Cambodia or Angola or Afghanistan. Though if the civil war lasts long enough that might all be destroyed/killed, but the conflict is at nothing like that point so far.
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