10 dead, 35+ wounded at Batman premiere shooting

[Mr Bean]

Now that we're learning more about the shooter, let everyone commence using him to justify their pre-conceived prejudices and socio-economic or political theories!

But we are still at the stage where the media is inveting things about the shooter before we have a chance to invent our own things about him DW. We are still a day away (Gotta let the nightly news shows get their two cents in) from being able to use the shooter to justify our own perceptions and prejudices. Granted if his name was Mohammad it'd be different but given the shooters names was James Holmes we can't spin that into an obvious narrative just yet we still have to find out/invent things about the shooter before he can be used as a political chip.

*Edit after all this is James Holmes of the Tea Party, or maybe not (Thank you Brian Ross of ABC for even bringing a random thing you found on the Internets and did not bother to verify on the news hour like it was "news")

[Formless]

According to the news, Colorado has the most lax gun laws in the US- no ban on assault rifles or high capacity magazines, no background checks and no restriction on how many guns you can own.

In addition to what Zod and Bean said, there are no state level restrictions on "assault rifles" here because automatic weapons are already restricted at the federal level in the US. If a gun isn't fully automatic (which is what technically defines an assault rifle, not magazine capacity or aesthetic detail), it doesn't make one lick of difference if it looks like an AR-15 or has a wooden stock, as long as it shoots .223 Remington either way (let alone larger calibers). Besides, rifles are used in a minority of shootings in the first place, because pistols are just that much more convenient to carry concealed (legally or otherwise). Its a deliberate part of many pistol designs, FFS. This isn't the only state that has fewer restrictions on rifles than pistols for that very reason. Just some things to keep in mind before blaming Colorado law here.

This always ends up in a gun control type argument, to that I say where are all the concealed carry people stopping this guy? Would be interesting if there were any kind of stats showing how many people in these situations were actually armed.

Most of the people at the screening would have been teens and college students, IIRC and from what I've heard. Not demographics known for their high rates of gun ownership, for various reasons.

[ZGundam]

I read how theaters are now going about beefing up security around the country, hopefully not to the point of metal detectors.

But then the article I just read in the Denver Post is surprising, to say the least...

The National Association of Theater Owners said in a statement earlier, "Guest safety is, and will continue to be a priority for theater owners. NATO members are working closely with local law enforcement agencies and reviewing security procedures."

Read more: Studio and theater chains stake precautions after theater shooting - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ ... z21Bjr8if0

[Formless]

Now that we're learning more about the shooter, let everyone commence using him to justify their pre-conceived prejudices and socio-economic or political theories!

Honestly, that's the thing that has everyone I've been talking to confused and outraged-- none of us can think of what the hell might have motivated this guy. Even Harris and Klebold at least had grievances against their fellow students. This guy just kinda went crazy and shot up a theaterful of people, What The Fuck?!

[General Mung Beans]

Apparently he was a neuroscience student: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colora ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Few hints of alleged shooter's past
By Mariano Castillo, CNN


(CNN) -- Nuggets of information about alleged gunman James Holmes began emerging Friday, but a clear picture of the 24-year-old and what may have motivated him remain elusive.

He went to high school in San Diego, was studying for a Ph.D., and lived in a small one-bedroom apartment. How will these facts fit within the larger puzzle of what led to the mass shooting?

Eyewitness accounts describe the shooter who entered the packed movie theater as being dressed all in black, a bulletproof vest around his frame, and what appeared to be a gas mask.

The witnesses saw the attacker throw two canisters -- possibly tear gas -- before opening fire on the crowd. He did not say a word, one witness said.



Police arrested Holmes in a rear parking lot of the theater. He did not resist.
It turns out that Holmes, who has roots in San Diego, was student at the University of Colorado School of Medicine in Aurora. He was in the process of withdrawing at the time of the shooting, university officials said. He was a doctoral student in the neuroscience program.

A college syllabus that lists Holmes as a student shows that he may have taken a class in which he studied topics as diverse as substance abuse, schizophrenia, depression and other disorders.


According to the document, he was supposed to have made a presentation in May about microRNA biomarkers.


Holmes had enrolled at the university in June 2011.

Police also revealed that Holmes lived in a small apartment on Paris Street in Aurora, in Apartment 10.

Donald Robert Davis, 52, lived in Apartment 10 for about two years before moving out about a year ago. He described it as an approximately 850-square-foot, one-bedroom apartment with one bathroom for which he paid $525 per month, not including utilities.

On Friday, authorities evacuated the entire apartment building after Holmes made a "statement about explosives" to police, Chief Daniel Oates said.

A neighbor who lives one floor underneath Holmes, Tori Lynn Everhart, described the apartments this way: "It's not like true ghetto. It's not the safest neighborhood, but it's definitely improving."

Large chunks of Holmes' past prior to medical school remain unknown.

Meanwhile in San Diego, his family released a statement saying they were still trying to process the news.

"Our hearts go out to those who were involved in this tragedy and to the families and friends of those involved," the Holmes family said, without giving any information about the suspected shooter.

The Poway Unified School District in San Diego confirmed that James Holmes graduated from Westview High School in 2006.

But his friends, his interests and his personality remained a mystery.

[Darth Wong]

Now that we're learning more about the shooter, let everyone commence using him to justify their pre-conceived prejudices and socio-economic or political theories!

Honestly, that's the thing that has everyone I've been talking to confused and outraged-- none of us can think of what the hell might have motivated this guy. Even Harris and Klebold at least had grievances against their fellow students. This guy just kinda went crazy and shot up a theaterful of people, What The Fuck?!

It may be hard to predict, but I'm sure someone will come up with a way to spin-doctor this, and their take on it will just leave you flabbergasted.

[Simon_Jester]

One thing I feel relatively safe speculating on. In terms of background, he may have been a nut who studied mental illness because he wanted to understand his own nuttery. You get people like that sometimes.

Then again, maybe not.

[ZGundam]

They upped the list of wounded to 59

[Enigma]

this guy gets into a theater apparently with even rifle sized weapons, how the hell did he not look suspicious on a summer midnight, so what's the point if this can be done with bigger weapons that can still be hidden.

Reports indicate he entered the theater unarmed as a patron, went out through an emergency exit in the theater, propping it open. Then armed himself at his car and came back through the emergency exit and began killing. Every theater I've been in, the staff check the emergency exits regularly. Admittedly mostly to prevent people sneaking in, but also I suppose for this very important security issue. Perhaps theaters should install remote alarms so they know when a door has been opened, or propped open, immediately.

I know that in the theaters in Ottawa (probably applies throughout the province), they have alarms set up at every emergency exit. So if someone opened one of those doors an alarm will sound in the theaters and the staff of security would check it out. I wonder how much of a difference this would have made in that theater in Colorado?

[Formless]

On the list of wounded, based on what we've been reading I was speculating they might be including people treated at the hospital for the teargas. If so, and I really do hope so, that would bring down the number of people who have to deal with a bullet lodged somewhere in their body.

[Magis]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... --nhl.html

Jessica Redfield, who just barely missed getting shot in Toronto last month, was one of the people killed.

In fairness, she didn't just barely miss getting shot in Toronto, but rather she barely missed being in the food court where the shooting took place. Even if she had been in the food court, it is extremely unlikely she would have actually been struck by a bullet, considering there were thousands of people there but only a few victims.

[Flagg]

Now that we're learning more about the shooter, let everyone commence using him to justify their pre-conceived prejudices and socio-economic or political theories!

Yeah, that's always fun. I kinda learned my lesson with Laughner the guy that shot Giffords and a bunch of people just a year and a half ago. I just assume they are deranged lunatics with a grudge against society until proven otherwise because that always seems to be the case.

[Pendleton]

Now that we're learning more about the shooter, let everyone commence using him to justify their pre-conceived prejudices and socio-economic or political theories!

Can I go first?

[Phantasee]

People have said he fits the profile for schizophrenia. It usually manifests itself around his age, I understand.

Which is one of the things that I think nobody really takes note of in their haste to jump on one side or the other of the gun control debate, or assigning blame to the media industry: mental health and the terrible condition it is in North America since the 80s.

[ChaserGrey]

The only thing that jumps out at me is that he "was in the process of withdrawing" from the neuroscience program and enrolled a year ago. The first year of doctoral programs is often an *extremely* stressful transition that requires the student to work at levels they've never worked at before, and quite possibly confront academic failure for the first time in their careers. It can definitely aggravate any underlying mental or emotional issues to the point of a nervous breakdown and/or cause entirely new symptoms to manifest. Speaking here from personal experience.

[ZGundam]

The only thing that jumps out at me is that he "was in the process of withdrawing" from the neuroscience program and enrolled a year ago. The first year of doctoral programs is often an *extremely* stressful transition that requires the student to work at levels they've never worked at before, and quite possibly confront academic failure for the first time in their careers. It can definitely aggravate any underlying mental or emotional issues to the point of a nervous breakdown and/or cause entirely new symptoms to manifest. Speaking here from personal experience.

So ChaserGrey,

Do you think he failed a course or the semester, felt his life was over, and decided to go out with a bang, so to speak?

Just seems so drastic.

[TheFeniX]

This always ends up in a gun control type argument, to that I say where are all the concealed carry people stopping this guy? Would be interesting if there were any kind of stats showing how many people in these situations were actually armed.

I don't know about other states, but every movie theatre I've seen (even those like the Alamo Drafthouse that sell alcohol, but aren't a 51% business) post 30.06 signs, which is one of the legal ways in Texas to say "no CCW on this premises."

Since the suspect was said to be "booby-trapped" with explosives and incendiary devices, anyone shooting him would likely be a bad idea.

Which is one of the things that I think nobody really takes note of in their haste to jump on one side or the other of the gun control debate, or assigning blame to the media industry: mental health and the terrible condition it is in North America since the 80s.

Mental nut or not, the guy had the state-of-mind to bring tear-gas, a bullet-proof-vest, and create homemade explosives without blowing himself up (this is hard to do if the report I read about Insurgents creating IEDs is to be believed, especially went you start adding in different activators). These are are fairly restricted items to have/make. You don't just walk into the store and buy them.

It may sound crass (and it may very well be), but he likely could have done more damage with a few long-fuse pipebombs tossed into the crowd. Or god forbid he just makes some kind of improvised napalm with explosives to saturate the area. Him having to take the time to actually shoot all these people likely made it that much easier to catch him as well as reduced the body-count.

If you look back to Columbine you find the real horror was averted

No one noticed them place the bags; the bags blended in with the hundreds of school bags that the other students had brought with them to lunch. The boys then went back to their cars to wait for the explosion.

Nothing happened. (It is believed that if the bombs had exploded, it is probable that all 488 students in the cafeteria would have been killed.)

[Formless]

Since the suspect was said to be "booby-trapped" with explosives and incendiary devices, anyone shooting him would likely be a bad idea.

Uh, where did you hear this? Every article I've read that mentions his use of explosives say that it was his apartment that he rigged to blow, not his person.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I read about Columbine, where the original goal was to set off bombs in the cafeteria (which was claimed would have brought down the level above) and to fire on survivors as they emerged from the building- it was fortunate that the explosives were duds.

As I understand it, the booby traps were in the guys apartment, not on his person. It was a surprise that he was apprehended without resisting, most mass shootings end with the gunman/men shooting themselves. The most notable exception to this that I can think of was the man behind the attacks in Norway almost a year ago. At least with him being taken alive they can try to get some answers from him.

[Sea Skimmer]

This always ends up in a gun control type argument, to that I say where are all the concealed carry people stopping this guy?

If you had any clue what you were talking about, you'd know that you can't carry a concealed weapon into a movie theater or the vast majority of other private businesses in the US. In many cases this is not even a matter of the business choice but forbidden by local or state laws. You also can't have them in schools. Low and behold these concentrations of unarmed citizens tend to be the places at which mass shootings take place. You sure don't see them happening at gunshows filled with hundreds or thousands of armed men and women.

[TheFeniX]

Uh, where did you hear this? Every article I've read that mentions his use of explosives say that it was his apartment that he rigged to blow, not his person.

Whoops.Sea Skimmer posted this link.

The apartment of the suspect in custody, named as 24-year-old James Holmes, had been booby-trapped with what police described as sophisticated explosives or flammable material and officers were trying to determine how to defuse the device or devices, Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said. The area had been evacuated, and police were expected to remain on the scene "for hours or days," he said.

And I misread it. Either way, creating "booby-trap" style explosive is hard to do. The report I read way back (maybe in this forum) was that a stupid amount (like 85%) of suicide bombers only manage to blow themselves up due to working in new activators into their explosives.

[JME2]

I've been out of the loop all day due to a dentist appointment in the late morning, so I just heard the news.

My heart goes out to the friends and families of the victims. What a senseless tragedy.

And if Rush Limbaugh, who's already been getting on my nerves this week for the "Bane = Bain" discussion, tries to spin-doctor this for his talk show, I'm going to get pissed.

[Simon_Jester]

So ChaserGrey,

Do you think he failed a course or the semester, felt his life was over, and decided to go out with a bang, so to speak?

Just seems so drastic.

If so, I'd bet on it being a pre-existing condition that he had under control before. Willpower and self-confidence can keep a person with a mental illness functional for a long time, until they turn out to have a hidden breaking point and do something horrendous.

So it's not just "he flunked a course, decided life was over, and snapped." Any more than it's just "he went outside in the cold and died." There are hidden steps- he went out in the cold, it softened up his immune system, he caught a flu bug, didn't get it treated, bronchitis and antibiotic-resistant pneumonia kicked in, then he died.

Or in this case, pre-existing psychiatric condition (for any of a number of reasons, or no discernible reason at all), holding himself together through various academic programs, then some combination of stimuli finally makes him crack and play out some kind of deranged violence fantasy.

Or maybe he has a hundred page political manifesto lying around in his apartment. Who knows?

[Sea Skimmer]

And I misread it. Either way, creating "booby-trap" style explosive is hard to do.

No it really isn't, lots of ways you can do it, hardest part would be getting out of the building without setting any of them off after you plant them. Adapting a viable bomb to be a boobytrap is easy. Its even easier if you just want to drive the cops nuts and merely make it look like a place is rigged to blow as is often the case when bombs like this are reported. Making explosives is fairly easy too though it make take multiple attempts. The hard part about bombs is coming out with a viable detonation mechanism. In places like Iraq and Syria you get so many effective bombs because people can get access to military stuff easily, even just taking it out of existing weapons in ordered to make a bigger bomb. Timothy McVeigh stole some of the key stuff he used in Oklahoma city from a construction site, leading to major changes in how stuff like that is allowed to be stored. He stole explosive too, but didn't use them in favor of home mixing a 5000lb bomb. But if your doing the job from scratch for a detonator, it gets tricky and it gets very dangerous. However a medical student who may already have a significant background in chemistry is already a step ahead in the process.

Since police are also reported the bombs may be incendiaries, no detonator would even be needed, just an ignition source. That's dead simple. But I mean, of course it should be when we sell self contained fire starting devices enmass in society.

The report I read way back (maybe in this forum) was that a stupid amount (like 85%) of suicide bombers only manage to blow themselves up due to working in new activators into their explosives.

I highly doubt a figure anywhere near that high is accurate. If the bombs blew up that easily the people making multiple ones them would all be blown up (this does happen some) and none would ever get into the hands of the suicide bombers in the first place.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Though I think our gun laws in the US are still absolutely just fine, within the limits of a few minor tweaks, I have to say emphatically a question which is far more pertinent here. Where the hell did he get smoke bombs and tear gas grenades and why are these legal? Will anyone disagree if we ban them? I thought they were already illegal, in fact. The only reason a civilian could possibly want access to these is to commit a mass terror attack, and banning them should have been an obvious step from the moment they came into existence. The good legislation which, if you don't support you probably genuinely are a terrorist, would be to immediately ban these things. For that matter I'd advocate strictly limiting the supply given to the police, since I suspect they're a weak link compared to the military, and it would force them to only use them when they genuinely need them.

ED: Shep suggested to me that in fact tear gas is illegal for civilians already, suggesting this was either acquired before the ban or obtained illegally.