10 dead, 35+ wounded at Batman premiere shooting

[The Duchess of Zeon]

But if your doing the job from scratch for a detonator, it gets tricky and it gets very dangerous. However a medical student who may already have a significant background in chemistry is already a step ahead in the process.

"Neuroscience" is a soft-science "interdisciplinary" degree with debatable connections to the real world. (Better than Cognitive Science, though.)

[Grumman]

This always ends up in a gun control type argument, to that I say where are all the concealed carry people stopping this guy?

A cinema is a loud, poorly lit room full of people you don't want to shoot. Even if there were armed people in the crowd, it would be smart to err on the side of caution.

[Mr Bean]

Sea Skimmer is correct
Speaking as someone grew up in the south I knew in my high school at least ten different people who had made their own pipe bombs, this was the 90s and only two of them have come close to fucking it up. Half were the light it and throw it types but the rest were a little more complicated. As for smoke bombs we sell them on the Fourth of July.

Tear gas is a little more complicated, could be a surplus store or an catalog order.

[ZGundam]

UPDATE: There seems to be about 10 people unaccounted for and they may be the bodies left in Theater 9 during the investigation. Their families are starting to get upset about wanting confirmation.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Sea Skimmer is correct
Speaking as someone grew up in the south I knew in my high school at least ten different people who had made their own pipe bombs, this was the 90s and only two of them have come close to fucking it up. Half were the light it and throw it types but the rest were a little more complicated. As for smoke bombs we sell them on the Fourth of July.

Tear gas is a little more complicated, could be a surplus store or an catalog order.

Do you really think the smoke bombs were just the little holiday style ones? In the time it takes to light the fuses on several of them I'd expect him to be tackled before he could open fire. If he got ahold of tear gas grenades I'd expect the smoke to come from smoke grenades. The period while he's there fumbling with a lighter to set the fuses on cherry sized clay spheroids (I remember those as a kid) would have been an intense vulnerability in an otherwise highly planned and premeditated event (he had to have cased the theatre thoroughly for example).

[Block]

Sea Skimmer is correct
Speaking as someone grew up in the south I knew in my high school at least ten different people who had made their own pipe bombs, this was the 90s and only two of them have come close to fucking it up. Half were the light it and throw it types but the rest were a little more complicated. As for smoke bombs we sell them on the Fourth of July.

Tear gas is a little more complicated, could be a surplus store or an catalog order.

Do you really think the smoke bombs were just the little holiday style ones? In the time it takes to light the fuses on several of them I'd expect him to be tackled before he could open fire. If he got ahold of tear gas grenades I'd expect the smoke to come from smoke grenades. The period while he's there fumbling with a lighter to set the fuses on cherry sized clay spheroids (I remember those as a kid) would have been an intense vulnerability in an otherwise highly planned and premeditated event (he had to have cased the theatre thoroughly for example).

Witnesses have already said they though the opening of his attack was part of the movie. No one looks at what their neighbors are doing in a theater during intense action sequences.

[Sea Skimmer]

Though I think our gun laws in the US are still absolutely just fine, within the limits of a few minor tweaks, I have to say emphatically a question which is far more pertinent here. Where the hell did he get smoke bombs and tear gas grenades and why are these legal? Will anyone disagree if we ban them? I thought they were already illegal, in fact. The only reason a civilian could possibly want access to these is to commit a mass terror attack, and banning them should have been an obvious step from the moment they came into existence.

Smoke bombs are sold as fireworks with varying degrees of effect.

As for tear gas, CS and CN gas legal almost everywhere in spray canisters of limited size, 2 or 2.5oz normally depending on the state. 'Mace' for example is based on watered down CS gas, originally it was pure CS and you still can find cans like that for sale though they have not been made in a long time.

Grenades are allowed in some states with the same limited sizes. From what I've heard from people actually exposed to CS and CN stuff, and OC pepper spray in the military, the high grade OC spray is actually vastly more effective, and yet is nothing but pure capsaicin from pepper plants. Its legal for children to carry in some states, yours included as I recall, and in general far less regulated then tear gases. CR tear gas is more effective then OC spray in turn, but it has never been legally sold to civilians in the US and is now effectively banned even for government use because its fairly deadly and a suspected carcinogen. The wonderful British government however still approves it for spraying into prison cells. The legal tear gas grenades don't burst violently or anything, they just release a cloud of gas like a smoke grenade. They are legal mainly so that private security guards ect... can have some kind of low grade riot control device.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Now that we're learning more about the shooter, let everyone commence using him to justify their pre-conceived prejudices and socio-economic or political theories!

Honestly, that's the thing that has everyone I've been talking to confused and outraged-- none of us can think of what the hell might have motivated this guy. Even Harris and Klebold at least had grievances against their fellow students. This guy just kinda went crazy and shot up a theaterful of people, What The Fuck?!

The police are now reporting that he dyed his hair red and identified himself as The Joker when arrested.

[Aaron MkII]

Don't forget that the smoke from a grenade is fucking dense and extremely unpleasant to breathe. Even if there had been someone carrying, it would have been pretty irresponsible for them to fire back.

You would likely be the centre of an epic shitstorm if you fired and hit someone else.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Do you really think the smoke bombs were just the little holiday style ones? In the time it takes to light the fuses on several of them I'd expect him to be tackled before he could open fire. If he got ahold of tear gas grenades I'd expect the smoke to come from smoke grenades. The period while he's there fumbling with a lighter to set the fuses on cherry sized clay spheroids (I remember those as a kid) would have been an intense vulnerability in an otherwise highly planned and premeditated event (he had to have cased the theatre thoroughly for example).

I can't speak to tear gas, but as far as the smoke bombs go you could buy a dozen small ones for about $5 and connect them with a single fuse and put them in a coffee can. It takes about 10 minutes, is completely safe, and can be done cheaply around the 4th of July when smoke bombs are readily available.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Smoke bombs are sold as fireworks with varying degrees of effect.

As for tear gas, CS and CN gas legal almost everywhere in spray canisters of limited size, 2 or 2.5oz normally depending on the state. 'Mace' for example is based on watered down CS gas, originally it was pure CS and you still can find cans like that for sale though they have not been made in a long time.

I seriously doubt spray cans of mace were involved, and if he was able to extract the gas from them he has access to a fair degree of equipment as normally that comes out as an aerosol and what kind of homemade grenade container would you transfer it to?

Grenades are allowed in some states with the same limited sizes. From what I've heard from people actually exposed to CS and CN stuff, and OC pepper spray in the military, the high grade OC spray is actually vastly more effective, and yet is nothing but pure capsaicin from pepper plants. Its legal for children to carry in some states, yours included as I recall, and in general far less regulated then tear gases. CR tear gas is more effective then OC spray in turn, but it has never been legally sold to civilians in the US and is now effectively banned even for government use because its fairly deadly and a suspected carcinogen. The wonderful British government however still approves it for spraying into prison cells. The legal tear gas grenades don't burst violently or anything, they just release a cloud of gas like a smoke grenade. They are legal mainly so that private security guards ect... can have some kind of low grade riot control device.

Well, maybe private security guards don't need to do riot control. Or else they should be licensed for it like armoured car drivers are.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Don't forget that the smoke from a grenade is fucking dense and extremely unpleasant to breathe. Even if there had been someone carrying, it would have been pretty irresponsible for them to fire back.

You would likely be the centre of an epic shitstorm if you fired and hit someone else.

Yeah, the grenades were definitely a very premeditated effort to suppress resistance. I'd have pulled my gun but short of having a direct line of sight on the guy, it'd be useless to actually shoot with smoke and tear gas clouding the air, because I'd just be killing as many people as he was to open fire blindly into the smoke. Just get out of the smoke to somewhere you can take cover and shoot him if he approaches, maybe protecting the people who've fled in that direction if he tries pursuing them. But that's the very most you could possibly do.

[Sea Skimmer]

"Neuroscience" is a soft-science "interdisciplinary" degree with debatable connections to the real world. (Better than Cognitive Science, though.)

Well frankly its not so much a matter of formal chem training as attention to detail at issue anyway, not saying more on that. But in general we are kept safe from random bombings mainly by the fact that people nuts enough to want to do them are not so often also smart and devoted types of people. When the traits met together the difficulty of the task is not going to stop them, as shown for example by the pretty serious bomb Breivik built in Norway.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I saw the news clip again by the reporter, what he actually said was that you can buy guns online without background checks.

[ZGundam]

The police are now reporting that he dyed his hair red and identified himself as The Joker when arrested.

Actually our police chief said, "No comment." about those reports so we do not know yet.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Just a note on metal detectors in movie theaters; According to the Aurora police, the gunman propped open a rear door and came in through an exit which was supposed to be only opened from the inside.

edit: The fact that the National Association of Theater Owners is called 'NATO' is really throwing me off.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I saw the news clip again by the reporter, what he actually said was that you can buy guns online without background checks.

Yeah, and you have to get them shipped to an FFL licensed dealer who then conducts the background check. I know, I've done it.

[Mr Bean]

Do you really think the smoke bombs were just the little holiday style ones? In the time it takes to light the fuses on several of them I'd expect him to be tackled before he could open fire. If he got ahold of tear gas grenades I'd expect the smoke to come from smoke grenades. The period while he's there fumbling with a lighter to set the fuses on cherry sized clay spheroids (I remember those as a kid) would have been an intense vulnerability in an otherwise highly planned and premeditated event (he had to have cased the theatre thoroughly for example).

Duchess your a little behind on the times of smoke grenades you can buy legally in the US, you can legally get pull string smoke grenades and while they won't be much you can easily and quickly ducktape them in bunches of six and bundle the cords. Or you can visit a surplus store and get military level smoke grenades for about seven dollars each.

[ZGundam]

Just a note on metal detectors in movie theaters; According to the Aurora police, the gunman propped open a rear door and came in through an exit which was supposed to be only opened from the inside.

I read that too. You would think someone would have seem that and gotten suspicious.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The police are now reporting that he dyed his hair red and identified himself as The Joker when arrested.

Actually our police chief said, "No comment." about those reports so we do not know yet.

A Federal law enforcement source with detailed knowledge of the investigation is the source.

[ZGundam]

We have the Tanner Gun Show every year in Colorado and you can literally buy ANYTHING there. So maybe he got it there.

[ZGundam]

The police are now reporting that he dyed his hair red and identified himself as The Joker when arrested.

Actually our police chief said, "No comment." about those reports so we do not know yet.

A Federal law enforcement source with detailed knowledge of the investigation is the source.

Thank you, Duchess. I stand corrected.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Duchess your a little behind on the times of smoke grenades you can buy legally in the US, you can legally get pull string smoke grenades and while they won't be much you can easily and quickly ducktape them in bunches of six and bundle the cords. Or you can visit a surplus store and get military level smoke grenades for about seven dollars each.

Then those should be banned. Flares and flare guns can provide all of the emergency rescue uses of smoke without the violence capabilities, certainly you can start a fire with them if lost in the woods to produce smoke if you really need to.

[Mr Bean]

Then those should be banned. Flares and flare guns can provide all of the emergency rescue uses of smoke without the violence capabilities, certainly you can start a fire with them if lost in the woods to produce smoke if you really need to.

Violent uses of smoke?
*Edit
How exactly are you going to ban Tin cans, saltpeter and baking soda?

[Losonti Tokash]

Theater workers prop the doors open themselves all the time and often aren't particularly motivated to give a shit if they see someone sneaking in.